Drivetrain 19% GIAC with larger injectors - first impressions
#76
02-10-2005, 08:41 AM
Pocket has it right ...
I had the very first JCW installed in my area. At that time there were not NEARLY the aftermarket mods available that you see today. And there was little/no information about effects on engine longevity on those few that were available. Now it is a completely different landscape of course.
And I've had alot of fun driving my smooooth JCW car for two years, worry free. Of course, since I did have the warranty in place, it was a gaurantee that nothing would brake.
And nothing did -- absolutely flawless operation. Getting the itch now for additional upgrades. This 19%/GIAC/injectors combination seems like it would be a very good addition to a JCW equipped car.
And I've had alot of fun driving my smooooth JCW car for two years, worry free. Of course, since I did have the warranty in place, it was a gaurantee that nothing would brake.
And nothing did -- absolutely flawless operation. Getting the itch now for additional upgrades. This 19%/GIAC/injectors combination seems like it would be a very good addition to a JCW equipped car.
#77
02-10-2005, 08:56 AM
Originally Posted by SCA
I had the very first JCW installed in my area. At that time there were not NEARLY the aftermarket mods available that you see today. And there was little/no information about effects on engine longevity on those few that were available. Now it is a completely different landscape of course.
#79
02-13-2005, 07:14 AM
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#83
03-07-2005, 10:41 AM
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Scheduled for Friday
I am scheduled for Friday for the injectors and GIAC finally...
Food for thought.. Rather then do a dyno pull.. I want to see real world results. The best I could muster was a 14.58 quarter with a 15% pulley with stock program, exhaust, and intake. If I can top that then I will be happy with the install.
There is difinately a difference in the power band with the 19% so I hope I can tell a difference with the injectors and program. I also feel a hesitation when pulling in 4th gear up high. Say 110 mph.. <Shhhh
>
I wonder if the stock injectors are over taxed as is and is causing this? I hope to see this go away..
Craig
PS.. Darren.. hit me up about going to the track.. you went MIA after my last PM.
Food for thought.. Rather then do a dyno pull.. I want to see real world results. The best I could muster was a 14.58 quarter with a 15% pulley with stock program, exhaust, and intake. If I can top that then I will be happy with the install.
There is difinately a difference in the power band with the 19% so I hope I can tell a difference with the injectors and program. I also feel a hesitation when pulling in 4th gear up high. Say 110 mph.. <Shhhh
>I wonder if the stock injectors are over taxed as is and is causing this? I hope to see this go away..
Craig
PS.. Darren.. hit me up about going to the track.. you went MIA after my last PM.
#86
03-07-2005, 12:44 PM
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#88
03-11-2005, 07:25 PM
I'd have to say, I was impressed with the 19% software. I thought I wouldn't notice much of a difference from the 15% software but I did (We tested the 15% software with a 19% pulley). It's smooth as silk and it pulls a lot harder throughout the entire rpm range. The bucking has been eliminated and the power over 6K has been returned.
Thumbs up to Helix for bringing this to the MINI market...I'm tired of flashing just VW's
Thumbs up to Helix for bringing this to the MINI market...I'm tired of flashing just VW's
#89
03-21-2005, 01:30 PM
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Finally its a done deal!!!
Ok FINALLY it is a done deal as of 1:30 today. I am actually very very pleased that I ran the 19% without GIAC and injectors <JCW> first so that I could tell the difference.. This car is now mean fast and smooth. No more straining to handle the input. The car feels like it came from the factory like this only much faster then stock. Mid range and low end seem to have awakened with this software. Would be interesting to see the curve before and after the software. Not sure what the difference is but there definately was a flat spot that has gone away.
I experienced something for the first time today with my MINI. Torque steer! It almost yanked it out of my hand.... and I liked it hehe.
Eric asked if my car was an 05 because it pulls like one. I think I just got lucky with a healthy strong engine in my late 04. Hope it stays that way..
Tomorrow is track night... weather permitting. Wish us luck! Low 14s is my prediction..
Craig
I experienced something for the first time today with my MINI. Torque steer! It almost yanked it out of my hand.... and I liked it hehe.
Eric asked if my car was an 05 because it pulls like one. I think I just got lucky with a healthy strong engine in my late 04. Hope it stays that way..
Tomorrow is track night... weather permitting. Wish us luck! Low 14s is my prediction..
Craig
#90
03-30-2005, 03:08 PM
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All,
I've just installed the 19% reduction pulley, GIAC flash, and JCW Injectors on my new LSD equipped 2005 MCS. Here are some relavant blurbs from a ongoing topic on Motoringfile about my aftermarket upgrades on my new 2005 MCS vs the 210 HP JCW kit on my old 2005 MCS. It applies nicely to this thread I think.
-- MIKE
My thanks goes out to Helix MINISports for all of their help and hard work in making the GIAC kit a reality for us all.
BTW, just for casual conversation purposes, would anyone care to speculate on how much crank/flywheel horsepower my car might be making? If I had to guess, I'd say somewhere around 220, but that's only my butt dyno talking.
I've just installed the 19% reduction pulley, GIAC flash, and JCW Injectors on my new LSD equipped 2005 MCS. Here are some relavant blurbs from a ongoing topic on Motoringfile about my aftermarket upgrades on my new 2005 MCS vs the 210 HP JCW kit on my old 2005 MCS. It applies nicely to this thread I think.
-- MIKE
...I purchased my first 2005 MINI with a JCW kit (i.e. with the "GO FAST" items you all seem to want me to spend my money on instead) and it turned out to be a lemon and only lasted 168 miles (it was a serious piece of junk that nearly turned me off of MINI's & BMW's for good, but that's a whole other story). MINI/BMW ended up buying the car back from us and getting us a replacement MINI (six months later). While I really liked the 210 HP JCW kit, I felt that (for me anyway) it was just a bit too over priced for what you receive, and so for the replacement MINI, I decided to take the aftermarket route for my "GO FAST" items instead (19% pulley, GIAC ECU Flash, 380CC Injectors, Milltek Exhaust, and CAI). Since the aftermarket items were less than a third of the price of the original JCW kit, I had some extra money to spend on the replacement car. I ended up buying a suspension kit for it and the rear-view camera too (and still didn't come close to spending the price of the original JCW kit)...
...Going back to your lemon MCS, I am curious to know what happened? Do you think the dealer installed JCW kit was a contributor in the early demise of the car? Dealer error?...
...I really don't want to drag this thread off topic with the problems I had with my lemon MINI. I can tell you that it had nothing to do with the JCW kit that was installed on the car (I actually loved the kit as it was a real kick. The power was very strong and super smooth. MINI/JCW has done an outstanding job with it and so you definitely won't hear any JCW-bashing coming from me.). Suffice it to say that MINI/BMW and our dealership treated us right and everything worked out in the end....
Could you comment on the difference in performance between the JCW and your aftermarket components?
I've heard that the JCW kit doesen't really pack THAT much of a punch- especially for the money, even the 210 HP kit.
And on the other hand I can see that a 17% pulley will add almost 20 HP, for example, for a lot less money. What is the performance of your Mini now?
I've heard that the JCW kit doesen't really pack THAT much of a punch- especially for the money, even the 210 HP kit.
And on the other hand I can see that a 17% pulley will add almost 20 HP, for example, for a lot less money. What is the performance of your Mini now?
This is waaay off topic, so I'll try and keep it brief...
I'm a HUGE fan of the 210 HP JCW kit. While I only got to experience the kit on my original car for a short while, I can tell you first hand that it was a real hoot to drive. It packed some serious punch. I'm not sure if its low end power was due to the new lower gearing in the 05's, or if I just got a really fast MINI, but that car was a real monster off the line. If I switched off the DSC, the car had so much low end torque that it would easily smoke the tires all the way through fourth gear. I was absolutely amazed at how smooth the motor was and how strong it felt on the low end. The only problem I had with the kit is that the car really needed a limited slip differential with it installed. Otherwise, it was difficult to drive the car hard (and it would run the DSC computer ragged as the tires were constantly spinning).
With the replacement car (as I already mentioned), I went the aftermarket route instead (and got the factory installed LSD as well). I've heard a lot of good things about the 19% reduction pulley, larger injectors, and the GIAC ECU Flash, and so that's what I decided to install. The mods aren't quite finished and I haven't put a lot of miles on the pulley yet, but so far, I have to say that my initial impressions are that I'm a bit disappointed. The low end torque and the smoothness of the JCW kit was impressive to say the least, and so far, the aftermarket stuff just isn't living up to my expectations here (again, I'm not finished with the mods yet and so it's not really a fair comparison - please read on for the info...).
The first thing I did to my new car is install the JCW airbox. I absolutely love this airbox and I wouldn't trade it for any other CAI currently on the market. The thing is so refined and well integrated. The sound it makes above 4,500 RPM is positively addicting. I love the fact that the car sounds completely normal when cruising on the freeway and at low RPMs, and then really comes to life (and starts to scream/wine) as the RPMs rise above 4,500. It's very sweet!
Next came the Milltek cat-back exhaust system. This is also an amazing mod that's worth every penny in my opinion. It sounds so much better than the stock exhaust system and the JCW exhaust system as well. I was really disappointed by the JCW exhaust as it was so quiet that you could hardly tell it was even there (it was actually quite a bit quieter than the stock 05 exhaust system). I don't like loud obnoxious exhausts, but I wanted the car to at least have a better (more pronounced) sound and that's exactly what the Milltek does/did. It's very well put together too (fit and finish wise). It fits the car beautifully (no modifications are needed anywhere) and it has the same great looking slash-cut tips as the JCW exhaust.
Next came the 19% pulley. I installed the pulley myself, and I was really surprised to find that the car was very sluggish at low RPMs and had very poor throttle response after installing it (it actually bogs like crazy off the line). It's even causing the car to ping really bad between 2.5k and 3.5k RPM. However, after 5k RPM or so, the thing really starts to scream and the car definitely "feels" faster than the JCW car on the high end. I really like the low end power and smoothness of the JCW car though as the low end is where most of your daily driving is done (there's power no matter what gear you're in). This is why I say that I'm a bit disappointed in the 19% pulley so far.
However, in all fairness to the 19%, I've yet to drive it with the larger injectors and the GIAC ECU installed (and so it's really not a fair comparison at all). I've since installed the larger injectors in the car, but I'm currently waiting for my re-programmed ECU to be delivered tomorrow. If the larger injectors and the GIAC flash correct the low end (and pinging) problems I'm having, then I'd say that the aftermarket mods would be the way to go (for me anyway). At this point, I think that it will be hard to match the low end torque and smoothness of the JCW kit. I'll just have to wait and see what happens.
I'll let you know more tomorrow. [GRIN]
I'm a HUGE fan of the 210 HP JCW kit. While I only got to experience the kit on my original car for a short while, I can tell you first hand that it was a real hoot to drive. It packed some serious punch. I'm not sure if its low end power was due to the new lower gearing in the 05's, or if I just got a really fast MINI, but that car was a real monster off the line. If I switched off the DSC, the car had so much low end torque that it would easily smoke the tires all the way through fourth gear. I was absolutely amazed at how smooth the motor was and how strong it felt on the low end. The only problem I had with the kit is that the car really needed a limited slip differential with it installed. Otherwise, it was difficult to drive the car hard (and it would run the DSC computer ragged as the tires were constantly spinning).
With the replacement car (as I already mentioned), I went the aftermarket route instead (and got the factory installed LSD as well). I've heard a lot of good things about the 19% reduction pulley, larger injectors, and the GIAC ECU Flash, and so that's what I decided to install. The mods aren't quite finished and I haven't put a lot of miles on the pulley yet, but so far, I have to say that my initial impressions are that I'm a bit disappointed. The low end torque and the smoothness of the JCW kit was impressive to say the least, and so far, the aftermarket stuff just isn't living up to my expectations here (again, I'm not finished with the mods yet and so it's not really a fair comparison - please read on for the info...).
The first thing I did to my new car is install the JCW airbox. I absolutely love this airbox and I wouldn't trade it for any other CAI currently on the market. The thing is so refined and well integrated. The sound it makes above 4,500 RPM is positively addicting. I love the fact that the car sounds completely normal when cruising on the freeway and at low RPMs, and then really comes to life (and starts to scream/wine) as the RPMs rise above 4,500. It's very sweet!
Next came the Milltek cat-back exhaust system. This is also an amazing mod that's worth every penny in my opinion. It sounds so much better than the stock exhaust system and the JCW exhaust system as well. I was really disappointed by the JCW exhaust as it was so quiet that you could hardly tell it was even there (it was actually quite a bit quieter than the stock 05 exhaust system). I don't like loud obnoxious exhausts, but I wanted the car to at least have a better (more pronounced) sound and that's exactly what the Milltek does/did. It's very well put together too (fit and finish wise). It fits the car beautifully (no modifications are needed anywhere) and it has the same great looking slash-cut tips as the JCW exhaust.
Next came the 19% pulley. I installed the pulley myself, and I was really surprised to find that the car was very sluggish at low RPMs and had very poor throttle response after installing it (it actually bogs like crazy off the line). It's even causing the car to ping really bad between 2.5k and 3.5k RPM. However, after 5k RPM or so, the thing really starts to scream and the car definitely "feels" faster than the JCW car on the high end. I really like the low end power and smoothness of the JCW car though as the low end is where most of your daily driving is done (there's power no matter what gear you're in). This is why I say that I'm a bit disappointed in the 19% pulley so far.
However, in all fairness to the 19%, I've yet to drive it with the larger injectors and the GIAC ECU installed (and so it's really not a fair comparison at all). I've since installed the larger injectors in the car, but I'm currently waiting for my re-programmed ECU to be delivered tomorrow. If the larger injectors and the GIAC flash correct the low end (and pinging) problems I'm having, then I'd say that the aftermarket mods would be the way to go (for me anyway). At this point, I think that it will be hard to match the low end torque and smoothness of the JCW kit. I'll just have to wait and see what happens.
I'll let you know more tomorrow. [GRIN]
Hi All,
Okay, this is a bit off topic again, but I just have to jump in and clear things up with my aftermarket vs. JCW mods info.
I just received back my ECU this morning reprogrammed with the GIAC flash that was made specifically for the 19% reduction pulley and the larger (380 CC) fuel injectors, and all I can say is WOW! The car is fantastic now. I've only put about 50 miles on it so far, but the bogginess is completely gone (as is the pinging) and the car is back to being buttery smooth again. I can't believe how wild the car is above 4,500 RPM now. It's scary FAST! (almost too fast if there is such a thing [grin]). What a difference the larger injectors and GIAC flash made for the 19% pulley.
The car now has plenty of low end torque (below 4,000 RPM), but I'd still have to give the edge in this area (and in overall smoothness) to the 210 HP JCW kit. However, above 4,000 RPM there's just no comparison and the 19%/JCW Injectors/GIAC combo wins hands down. I can't believe how impressed I am with the car right now. It's so quick that I'm definitely reaching the limitations of the stock suspension (and brakes). I can't wait to install the suspension kit and 22mm rear sway bar and see what happens next.
To end... I'll just say that both of the cars (JCW and aftermarket) have their strong points. You decide which one's best for you. I doubt that you'll be disappointed with either of them. I'm certainly not! [GRIN]
Okay, this is a bit off topic again, but I just have to jump in and clear things up with my aftermarket vs. JCW mods info.
I just received back my ECU this morning reprogrammed with the GIAC flash that was made specifically for the 19% reduction pulley and the larger (380 CC) fuel injectors, and all I can say is WOW! The car is fantastic now. I've only put about 50 miles on it so far, but the bogginess is completely gone (as is the pinging) and the car is back to being buttery smooth again. I can't believe how wild the car is above 4,500 RPM now. It's scary FAST! (almost too fast if there is such a thing [grin]). What a difference the larger injectors and GIAC flash made for the 19% pulley.
The car now has plenty of low end torque (below 4,000 RPM), but I'd still have to give the edge in this area (and in overall smoothness) to the 210 HP JCW kit. However, above 4,000 RPM there's just no comparison and the 19%/JCW Injectors/GIAC combo wins hands down. I can't believe how impressed I am with the car right now. It's so quick that I'm definitely reaching the limitations of the stock suspension (and brakes). I can't wait to install the suspension kit and 22mm rear sway bar and see what happens next.
To end... I'll just say that both of the cars (JCW and aftermarket) have their strong points. You decide which one's best for you. I doubt that you'll be disappointed with either of them. I'm certainly not! [GRIN]
BTW, just for casual conversation purposes, would anyone care to speculate on how much crank/flywheel horsepower my car might be making? If I had to guess, I'd say somewhere around 220, but that's only my butt dyno talking.
#91
03-30-2005, 03:28 PM
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19% GIAC+380 injectors+VGS = fun
I also did the 19% GIAC software and non OEM 380cc injectors from Helix last week. Also did VGS at same time as well as new Falken Azinis tires (RT-615)
The car is awsome
, pulls hard in all gears, smooth as silk no yo-yo at all ( not shure if the yo-yo cure is fom the VGS or GIAC) but who cares, I had to pull the intercooler to put in the new injectors so it was a perfect time to do the VGS mod. Thank goodness for the new tires as they help keep the car on the road
.
The car is awsome
, pulls hard in all gears, smooth as silk no yo-yo at all ( not shure if the yo-yo cure is fom the VGS or GIAC) but who cares, I had to pull the intercooler to put in the new injectors so it was a perfect time to do the VGS mod. Thank goodness for the new tires as they help keep the car on the road .
#92
03-31-2005, 04:21 PM
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#93
03-31-2005, 04:32 PM
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Veni_Vidi_Vici, I belive the JCW injectors will fit perfect to the head and the Bosch require different "O" rings or spacers.to make work. I got my Bosch (don't know for shure markings ground off 
) from Helix and they said the put different "O" ring on them to prevent any leaks, and I also did not have to space out the fuel rail to make them fit. I have had them installed for about one week and have not noticed any problems.
But...How would I know if their was a leak at the Injectors? I don't have the skills in that area.
) from Helix and they said the put different "O" ring on them to prevent any leaks, and I also did not have to space out the fuel rail to make them fit. I have had them installed for about one week and have not noticed any problems.But...How would I know if their was a leak at the Injectors? I don't have the skills in that area.
#94
04-01-2005, 03:59 AM
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Yep, I got JCW because they were a direct fit. When I can go direct fit without modification then I always do. Just the way I like to do things.
I can't wait to get some small wheels with drag radials on em.. lets just say that I am having some additional traction problems right now..
I can't wait to get some small wheels with drag radials on em.. lets just say that I am having some additional traction problems right now..
Originally Posted by Veni_Vidi_Vici
Is there a reason to go with JCW injectors vs Bosch? As far as I can tell the JCW are about $110 more. That's almost the price of the Alta lightweight crank pulley.
#96
04-01-2005, 05:30 AM
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This is just a bit OT... Please forgive me.
My only concern with the GIAC, and the primary reason I'm considereing the UNIchip instead, is the potential for the programming to be overlayed by the dealer. I don't like the idea of having to tell them each time they get the car not to apply any new software. Please straighten me out as necessary.
My only concern with the GIAC, and the primary reason I'm considereing the UNIchip instead, is the potential for the programming to be overlayed by the dealer. I don't like the idea of having to tell them each time they get the car not to apply any new software. Please straighten me out as necessary.
#97
04-01-2005, 07:03 AM
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From my understanding, it is a matter of time before you will be able to have various levels of the GIAC program available to download yourself as an upgrade. Check here for info on flash loader...http://www.giacusa.com/flashloader_handheld.php
One of the settings will be for race fuel.
Right now, if the dealer overwrites your program, you need to get it reflashed. Not a huge problem for those of us that live close to Helix but an understandable concern for those that dont.
May want to write Eric and see what he says about an ETA on the self loading flash availability.......
Craig
One of the settings will be for race fuel.
Right now, if the dealer overwrites your program, you need to get it reflashed. Not a huge problem for those of us that live close to Helix but an understandable concern for those that dont.
May want to write Eric and see what he says about an ETA on the self loading flash availability.......
Craig
#98
04-01-2005, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Pocket_Rocket
Check here for info on flash loader...http://www.giacusa.com/flashloader_handheld.php
One of the settings will be for race fuel.
Right now, if the dealer overwrites your program, you need to get it reflashed. Not a huge problem for those of us that live close to Helix but an understandable concern for those that dont.
One of the settings will be for race fuel.
Right now, if the dealer overwrites your program, you need to get it reflashed. Not a huge problem for those of us that live close to Helix but an understandable concern for those that dont.
I have to drive 3.5 hours to get to a dealer. I'm just not willing to deal with an ECU upgrade that I can't re-flash myself.
#99
04-01-2005, 09:14 AM
Originally Posted by Veni_Vidi_Vici
Is there a reason to go with JCW injectors vs Bosch? As far as I can tell the JCW are about $110 more. That's almost the price of the Alta lightweight crank pulley.
Performance should be the same with either choice. GIAC requires using new not re-valved injectors.
As for the dealership overwriting your GIAC-
You just have to tell them not to touch the ECU- they must comply or they will be paying to have your GIAC reinstalled.
UNIchip is visible (not stealthy) and not a good match for the 19% pulley unless you want to custom tune it for larger injectors and any 17 or 19% pulley. It's also significantly more costly than GIAC.
Hopefully GIAC will be something we can install via the OBDII port soon.