When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
1st GearNew members: make an initial post and introduce yourself as you shift from Neutral to First Gear. Current members: meet some of the new members.
A few pictures of cars in the garage with my MIINI...
The driver of this Fiat was extremely fast and the car’s top end was about the same as Albert’s. He said he had a “tune” on it that brought it up about 10 hp. The Hoosier’s helped in the corners. I learned later that the guy driving it raced in Ferrari Challenge races...
Fiat Abarth - Wicked fast and largely stock
Porsches, BMWs, Corvettes, Cameros, Mustang were plentiful:
Some sort of Porsche
The livery on this car was the best Another Porsche. Love the retro livery
The best sounding street car. Well, one of the better sounding. Ford did it right with this car. You may not aways want a monster car to drive on the track Maybe the best Mustang for the track
Nissan GTR... Need I say more? This car gets the best looking award
And beautiful done up
And the best engine award
Yes, a Camping World NASCAR stock truck. It has a few differences like the engine is fuel injected and there is a passenger seat. Put in your ear plugs, it is loud and hang on...
And why not at a track day
I thought this MINI was going to be a real romp. But, alas, it was mostly looks and not well thought out. The fender flares are impressive, until you look closely at the tire and see the cut in it from the body sheet metal under them. I also heard that it was tuned to about 300 hp at the wheels and this was only its 5th engine...
That photo of Ben’s R56 just saved me some money. I was thinking about going with the same flares, but I didn’t like that they required the retention of so much of the original fender and mounting hardware.
Brutal assessment. It’s too bad they didn’t offer an LSD. Hopefully the brakes can be sorted out with different pads. I had no idea the rear rotors were so small! WTH?!?
Now you have me eyeing the Falkens. My Hankooks are 225/45 and I’d really like a 235/40. I see the Falkens are available in that size
Brutal? Maybe. Just honest, though. I am disappointed in MINI for getting it only half right and it would have taken little to get it there. The LSD was a $500 option years back. A bargain. But it is easy to just throw that in during the build in place of an open diff, as compared to do it as a mod.
I really think the brake issue is the pad mismatch. If that is the case, then the brakes on the JCW will be awesome.
The suspension too. The JCW pro parts are really good. But compared to the larger sway bars and Bilstien B8s on my R56, it is not enough. The JCW needs 2 mm larger swaybars front and rear. I think with those, the slightly lighter shocks would not be noticed as there would be less transition roll to deal with.
I might not have felt this way if I didn’t have the R56S with the mods it has, which makes it a pretty formidable track toy. It has the LSD, camber, poly bushings and bigger swaybars. A tune and it would be a lot quicker than the JCW. It weighs 250 lbs less and has better aero (I believe).
That said, I think the engine in the JCW is much better suited to track life than is the N18 in the R56. And, even with the oversized Wilwoods I think my braking on the R56 is marginal. So a couple of strong pluses for the JCW.
I think the JCW is a good starting point, as my R56S was. It just needs some help. I may try just camber plates and pads for the rear brakes, and see how it feels. I would like to stay away from the cost of a LSD. This can get to be a deep rabbit hole...
I don’t know how you are putting 235/40 tires in your wheel wells. I had rubbing on my liners on my R56 with 225/45s...
For fast track times at a low cost, I would go with the Falkens. Although I have never tried Hankooks, although from what I have read, they seem like they are in line with the Falken 615s. Long wear with slightly less grip.
That photo of Ben’s R56 just saved me some money. I was thinking about going with the same flares, but I didn’t like that they required the retention of so much of the original fender and mounting hardware.
You know that car and people? Wow small world...
With the stock suspension travel on my R56 my tire was pushed well beyond where the wheel well metal joins with the external fender. That lip comes straight down and when I reached under that flare on that car, I estimated there was only about 1” of room before the tire. That tire was cut fully through the tread. He claimed he had no rubbing before. But as I said, WGI will show any flaw and make the worst of it. I am glad that wasn’t out on the track as a blown tire might have taken other cars out with it. As it was, it blew its serpentine belt and he didn’t have a replacement. So it was a DNF...
I suppose "brutal" was probably a little hyperbolic. However, that highlights why I really like your assessments, they are well thought out, honest and hyperbole free .
The 225's definitely rub the liners and the trim under compression, but are clear of the sheet metal. I figure the liners are just the cost of doing business. I was planning to trim the sheet medal and attempt to bend it out slightly, and possibly add some inexpensive flares to accommodate the wider tires. We'll see how it goes.
I love hearing the stories about running on The Glen. I’ve not done any track days there, but I have run their parade laps. It’s a great track!
I see the cars out on the track at lunch time. I seem to remember that the money they charge goes to local charities, which I think is wonderful. I have seen a little bit of everything out there over the years I have been going to that track. Even saw some pickup trucks gunning it down the front straight when I was there last weekend. It is classic and iconic track. It has a flow to it that some of the newer/modern tracks don’t have. Some of these newer tracks seem contrived. Let’s put a feature here, and a turn there. Monticello, down state, is like that. On the other hand watch the IMSA races at VIR and Road America and you will see that flow to them also. Racers love these track because of that. Good you have had a chance to get out on it.
.
I see the cars out on the track at lunch time. I seem to remember that the money they charge goes to local charities, which I think is wonderful. I have seen a little bit of everything out there over the years I have been going to that track. Even saw some pickup trucks gunning it down the front straight when I was there last weekend. It is classic and iconic track. It has a flow to it that some of the newer/modern tracks don’t have. Some of these newer tracks seem contrived. Let’s put a feature here, and a turn there. Monticello, down state, is like that. On the other hand watch the IMSA races at VIR and Road America and you will see that flow to them also. Racers love these track because of that. Good you have had a chance to get out on it.
.
Friend and I try to make there at least once a year, usually for opening weekend. This year, my two boys came with me As we were leaving, my oldest said "Driving just doesn't seem as fun anymore!"
I suppose "brutal" was probably a little hyperbolic. However, that highlights why I really like your assessments, they are well thought out, honest and hyperbole free .
The 225's definitely rub the liners and the trim under compression, but are clear of the sheet metal. I figure the liners are just the cost of doing business. I was planning to trim the sheet medal and attempt to bend it out slightly, and possibly add some inexpensive flares to accommodate the wider tires. We'll see how it goes.
These guys are my current inspiration:
I’ll see that 80 and raise it to 81...
Number 81...
I do want people to know that I had a really good time at WGI with the JCW. I almost wish I had a chance to take it out with the base JCW suspension, so I could have done a comparison to the Pro suspension.
I think my expectations for Albert and myself were a bit too high when I first went out. I knew it would be different, but, in looking back at it, I was maybe expecting to have done better than I did, especially the first day out. My cousin with the M2 helped to put things into perspective on day 2 when I started to take some data and I found that I was much slower than my times in my R56S.
I then found out that it was the driver not the car that was holding us back. Before the end of the second day I found myself running and matching times with a Lotus Exige and several BMW E36s. While the Lotus should have been quicker, the driver told me that it “heat soaks” which it cuts power a lot. It was still fun being able to run with cars like that, which I couldn’t do with the R56S because of the power difference. So the Power of the JCW engine is really good and rewarding.
By the end of the second day, the data showed that I was able to match the best times I had in the R56S. “G” loading was about the same, so clearly the extra power paid dividends. Also that showed the lack of front camber wasn’t hurting me too badly. It was maybe a frustration of the understeer it caused at time that got me down about the car. Also, it may show that I could have been even faster in the R56S?
The 3rd day was short; morning only and I really only got out once. Data showed that I bested the best time in the R56S by almost a second... I was happy with that...
Now that I have thought about my experience at this event, I realize I have focused on the negatives about the car and less so the positives. The frustrations with the brakes, eDLC and wheels truly overshadowed the fact that, in spite of those limitations, the JCW really did perform really well.
Yup, I’ll give the JCW a as a track car.
I already know what to do for caster/camber plates... Thanks Charlie for testing those out.
And I have looked at other wheels that show promise of fitting better than the NMs. Enkei has several I would like to look at in both a 7.5” and 8” with about a ET48....
OK - It is official - There is a rabbit hole opening up near me...
Friend and I try to make there at least once a year, usually for opening weekend. This year, my two boys came with me As we were leaving, my oldest said "Driving just doesn't seem as fun anymore!"
Oooooh....
An astute boy... A little bit of understanding of the fear and harm that can can be associated with driving?
There is a Fiat Abarth in the mix that was as quick as it looks to be in the video. The guy driving is really good and the car is faster than one would think.
Or just get a GP3. It has those things plus fender flares, bigger brakes, and 75 hp on top of that. All for another $16k. Hmmm have to think about this....
I have a set of Enkei wheels for Smokey (the R56S) and really like them. I will be looking at their wheels for a set for Albert. I have found several that look promising. The JCW has an interesting set of restrictions for fitting wheels. First the spokes have to clear the front calipers. Then the tire on the wheel can’t be so far outboard that they hit the rear fenders, but the tire can’t be so far inboard that they hit the front struts.
At WGI I rotated the tires each day. Given the wear on the front, typical of a front wheel drive car, and the used rubber pickup on the rear, this makes sense to do.
On the third day I found this on my left front brake:
Pins are not in...
I did do a brake pad inspection on the second day and didn’t notice this, however I was not looking for this. It also could have been that, because I looked hard at the right front which takes a lot of abuse from the eDLC, I didn’t look hard on at the front left. Don’t remember.
It takes several pretty hard taps with a hammer to put the pins in place. If you look at the circled ends you can see the split ring that goes into the hole and holds the pin in place with spring friction. On these, when I reset the pins, I found them to be the same to drive into place as any others I have done, including those on an M2, which have the same pad retention pins. So, I am not sure what happened that caused them to be out.
All back in place after a few hard taps with a hammer:
Pins in place
It could have been that I didn’t seat the pins properly when I put the pads in originally.
Again, don’t know.
However, it drives home the point that I need a check list of things to look at when I am doing work or just just changing tires. This car is different from Smokey with its Wilwoods and pins that are mechanically locked in place. So this car requires a different check list than that car. Overall, it is worth the few extra seconds it takes to look all around when the wheels are off the car. Even with the wheels on the car, I found I could reach in between the wheel spokes with a tool and check where the end of that pin is. This made for a quick and easy check, without having to do much of anything.
In my prior life, it was forbidden to design anything which would rely on friction to hold things together. Because of that, I like the Wilwood design with the mechanical latch for the pad retention pins. Then again, I have never heard of the Brembo calipers having a problem. For now, something to keep my eye on.
The rubbing issue by the rear tires has me irritated....
Time for different wheels that will move the tires inboard a little bit. The reality is the NM moved the tire only 0.55” outboard. These are ET40 vs ET54 stock. Not a lot, so I am not sure I can actually fix/eliminate the rubbing with anything except the stock wheels and tire size. And, with the 215 tires on the NM wheels, I think they are not hitting metals; a good thing. Need to crawl under and check for sure. I do know the tires are clear of the metal lip, though, which is a really good thing.
I have done some looking at Enkei wheels and their wheels that look to have spokes that will clear the JCW brakes. There are a bunch in their Tuning Wheel line. These are all 8x17 with an ET45. But that’s only about 0.2 inch inboard; not much. To compound that, the location of the tread will be about 0.25” further outboard given the wider wheel width as compared to a 7.5 inch wide wheel, which I currently have. So, I gain nothing with respect to the rubbing issue.
In the Enkei Racing line, there are several wheels which look to be better. The PFO1, 8x17, ET50, which I already know would need a spacer and put it about the same location as the Tuning Wheels. Not the best. Then there is the PF05, 7.5x17, ET48.
Can you guess which wheels I am thinking of trying?
Enkei PF06, in blue
Yes, blue... No black in the line up. Hope they clear the brakes...
If they don’t, Tire Rack will take them back if they are unmourned, no scuffs, etc...
Glad you caught the brake issue before it caused any issues on track!
As far as the wheel choice, you know how I feel about the color blue...😊...I hope they clear the calipers. (My PF01s clear the Brembos, but not by much, maybe a millimeter or two at most.)
Albert has been returned to street use. The iSweep and DTC30 race/track pads have been removed and the street pads are back in. The Falken track tires are off and the Hankook RFTs are back on.
In retrospect, I have to say that Albert was easy to drive fast on the track. The JCW was forgiving and reassuring. The engine and front brakes are clearly the stand out features of the car. The ability of the front brakes to soak up repeated applications was impressive. The seats take honors too. The Falken tires were very impressive. Wear was reasonable. I would say the wear is better that the RE71R ‘Stones and they seem to be more tolerant of heat as laps add up. They are much better than the Dunlop ZIIs. The Falken make very little noise as they reach their limits, unlike the ZIIs that howled like a wounded cat. The 215 size of the Falkens seemed to really like the 7.5” wide wheels. I run that same size on 7” wheels on Smokey, and I have always thought that would be the case. It was just a “feeling”.
All in all this event was 2 1/4 days. Here are what the brake pads look like...
Front Pads, iSweep i4000, left and right sides of the car
Of note was the lack of dust from the iSweep pads and how good the rotors looked.
The MINI JCW pads start out 15mm thick (I think the iSweep were 15.2mm). Of that thickness, 5.6mm is backing plate, so the “pad” part is just a little over 9mm thick (in comparison the M2 has almost 12mm of “pad”) The left side (driver’s side) pads (left pair in the picture), shows good wear with a bit of a taper (~1mm) on the outside pad. The inside pad has very little taper. The thickness is about 12.6mm on the inside pad; ~11.6 mm at the thin part of the taper on the outside pad.
Not unexpectedly, the passenger side pad shows a lot more use. This is do to the intervention of the eDLC in the uphill corkscrew of a turn at WGI called the “Toe”. That inside front right wheel is unloaded and almost off the ground. The picture clearly shown taper to the outside pad where it is ~10.8mm thick (more than half gone) as compared to about 13.2mm at the trailing edge. This inside pad faired much better with a bit of a taper, 12.05mm at the leading edge to 13.5mm at the trailing edge. I think this clearly shows the cooling from the brake ducts (inside pad vs outside pad) and I think it shows what aggressive nature of the eDLC.
To get the most days out of those pads, on a track like WGI (which will have aggressive eDLC intervention), the pads will need to be switched around on a daily basis. At almost $400 a set for the iSweep pads, it will be a good idea... And I think I need to find a less expensive pad...
The rear pads show the heat they generate. They do get use. Don’t let anyone tell you the rear brakes on a MINI don’t do anything. These are Hawk DTC30 race pads and the paint is burned of the backsides and one pad shows signs of over heating. There may have been a bit of traction control intervention along with the eDLC intervention. But clearly these things got hot. Oh, these also toasted the dust boots on both calipers. Next time around, these will get replaced with the iSweep i4000 rear pads.
Rear pad, Hawk DTC30, who said the rear brakes on a MINI don’t do anything.
I think, if there is a down side or weak point to the brakes on the F56 MINI, it is the rear brakes. The lack of mass is noticeable. It would have been nice of these had been upgraded with larger rotors as was done in the R56 JCW.
As there are no more track day plans for Albert this year, I will have time to ponder what could be done with these.
I have been wrong about what has been causing the tire wear on the left rear fender... Or, maybe I should say where it has been occurring, or both?
This was a real Homer Simpson Doh moment. It is the Toe at WGI; not the outer loop as I had thought. The toe, that nasty, uphill corkscrew of a turn. I should have realized this when I have been talking about the right front becoming light and losing traction. That weight is going to the outside, left side rear tire and is compressing the snot out of that suspension...
Now, I am liking that turn event less than I did before...
There are no turns like this in the left turn direction at WGI (or at any other track I am aware of) and there is little visible wear on the right side rear fender or wheel well liner.
I am truly amazed at the compression the Toe causes to the rear of the car, especially the left rear.
Left side rear fender wear.
In the closeup, you can see that the sidewall of the tire is outboard of the metal lip. Fortunately, it seems that the suspension is truly at the end of its travel and the side wall has not yet hit the lip.
Getting close to the metal lip
This is with the NM wheels (7.5x17 ET40) with 215/45 tires. This would have been a lot worse with the 225 tires, by another 0.25” at least.
If I can get the wheels I am looking at and they clear the front brakes, they will bring the tire in by about 0.3 inch, which would do a lot to alleviate this situation.
Glad you caught the brake issue before it caused any issues on track!
Z
You are absolutely right...
There is a step and change of diameter in the pins that should catch on the spring clip, and should keep it from coming all of the way out. But, “should keep it” is a lot different from “will keep it”. I don’t know if it is a “will” and I too am glad I caught it before I found out “oops, it didn’t”. Then again, that back-up retention with the spring clip may have worked the way it should have and that is the reason I didn’t have a problem.
In doing the brake pad change out, I closely observed this caliper and what it took to take those pins out. They were tightly seated the way they should be. I expect, I didn’t install them all the way when I put the race pads in. My bad. It is not like this sort of thing could not happen to someone (eg: untorqued wheel bolts, anyone?), but it is one of those things that should always be on the double or triple check list...
I also found that I need a tool to drive this pins in with. I have chipped the finish on the brake calipers using just a hammer...
Last edited by Eddie07S; 09-04-2020 at 08:05 AM.
Reason: Fix typos and edits
I have been in the hunt for wheels for Albert. The problem seems to be that the size I want is back ordered for all of the wheel brands I looked at. This includes Enkei, OZ, Sparco and Kosei. TR says that if I want the Enkei wheels, they would need to be container shipped from Japan, then to TR and then to me. 2 months. Ugh!
I may be relegated to using a set of stock wheels for the time being.
Hey, does anyone have a source for rebuild kits for the rear caliper for this car? I need to replace the dust boots for the pistons. I thought this would be a no-brainer. But BMW seems to have locked this one down tighter than a drum as I have been unable to find a source of the rubber parts inside of that thing. The dealer has nothing, nothing shows on realOEM.com, and the dealer just wants to sell me new calipers at just under $700 apiece. This, for a $2 part. And I can find nothing in the aftermarket world.
08-24-2020, 03:54 PM
.
It is not like this sort of thing could not happen to someone (eg: untorqued wheel bolts, anyone?), but it is one of those things that should always be on the double or triple check list...