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Which was a 28 liter four cylinder making ~300 bhp. I did not realize the photo was of a smaller reproduction!
Cheers,
Charlie
28 liter 4 banger?
What’s the saying... there is no replacement for displacement...
Yes... Very tiny. I should have had something in the picture to show the relative size. I thought the trailer might show that, but it is still hard to tell. That was the case with a lot of the cars. Being perfectly proportioned size disappears in a picture without any scale...
Thanks everyone for putting a name and context to this little car.
I know, not a lot of miles for a 2-1/2 year old car. But, in all fairness, I do have 3 MINIs and a Jeep to rotate through. They each get their chance and each has their place.
Albert has a play date coming up. 2 days at WGI 10/2 & 3. And for that event, he gets a special present...
XP-12 Carbotech Race brake pads
Of all the pads I have used, these guys make the best (no - I have not tried G-loc, yet). I used the XP-10s years ago and would have continued had I not had brake issues on Smokey that would eat a set of pads in a day...
Carbotech pads are also the most expensive. G-loc pads about $290, iSweep ~ $330, these Carbo’s ~$410
But I am a believer of you get what you pay for. The XP-12s have a heat range of over 1800 degF. This is quite a bit higher than the iSweep I was using. The first time out with the iSweep they worked fine. However, the last 2 times out, I got lumpies. In the past this indicated that the pads were being overheated. I had this issue with Smokey at WGI with the Wilwood Poly H pads. For that application I switched to Hawk DTC 60 pads, which worked. From what I could find, Hawk doesn’t make that for the MINI JCW. I also understand that Raybestos makes pads that might be of a worthy compound. But again, none for the JCW...
I think the iSweep pads were at the edge of their limits the first time out. The next 2 times I was over the limits. As I noted above, I think this was in part due to using different wheels. The first time out was with the NM wheels which are very open and have quite a bit of radial clearance with the caliper. The next 2 times I was using the Sparco wheels which are not as open and are tighter to the caliper... I think this trapped heat that was otherwise allowed to dissipate with the NM wheel.
The XP-12s are definitely aggressive looking. The texture of the pad is very course, much like the Hawk DTC60 pads. I think these will be very abrasive on the rotors until they get up to temperature, same as the Hawk pads; minimal road use for these. The DTC60 wore out a set of rotors in 2 days because they couldn’t come up to temperature on the track I was at. WGI will cook almost any pad, so I am not worried about these not coming up to temperature. I just hope the Carbo’s don’t get overheated.
An interesting thing about the iSweep is that they are very street worthy. No noise and crazy good bite when cold. A lot of dust, but no worse than the MINI pads. Not sure how abrasive they are on the rotors as Albert doesn’t get driven much, but I am not seeing much rotor wear from what driving I have done...
Definitely looking forward to trying out the Carbotech pads in a couple of weeks...
Unfortunately, Albert’s trip to WGI for a few days of fun feil through.
Sometimes life gets in the way of other parts of life... But that’s life.
The Carbotech pads will be shelved for now, the iSweep pads will come off the car and the stock MINI pads will go back in. The Continental DW Summer tires will stay on for a while, even through it is mid-40s this morning. I follow a guy on YouTube (“Tyre Reviews”) who does and report superb tire testing and results. He has recently tested a few performance winter tires and along with those, tested a Summer performance tire. He has done the same with All Season tires At less than 40 degF the summer tires loses a lot of their performance and it is time to put the All Season tires on. That won’t happen as a day time temp for a while around here and I like the DWs soooooo much over the crap-tastic Hankook AS tires Albert came with, the DWs will stay on for as long as I feel it is safe to do so....
I am following a Gen I MINI build for the track and the guy is new to MINIs, coming from high HP, RWD cars. It got me to thinking about the difference and I wrote a short ditty of what to expect of a MINI. I disagree with a lot of the conventional wisdom that is floating around as to how to setup and drive a MINI on the track. The same may not be true for autocross, but then, the two activities are different, so different setups. I also believe in a somewhat conservative, but fun setup. I want to drive the car home at the the end of a track event. I am not racing. I am not looking to be 0.01 sec faster than someone else. I do, however, compete against myself. So, it is about technique; how can I do better with the car that I have. Over the years I have learned a lot. A lot of that learning has come from the excellent instructors who have been cultivated by the BMWCCA Chapters that run the events I go to. I also like what Randy Pobst has to say about setting up a car...
I know this is redundant with what I have written in other posts and it is but a summary of my thoughts... and I thought I would put it here for others to ponder...
Some of what works for a RWD car will work on a FWD car, especially in setup. That is, sway bars do the same thing, as do shocks and springs. Too stiff in the rear, the car will want to over rotate; too soft in the rear and the car will want to push... In a corner, on the gas will create understeer; off the gas will create oversteer.
One big difference with a MINI suspension wise is how it gains and looses camber, especially in the front. The MINI gains a lot of camber with suspension compression, that is why trail braking is a big help to getting the car to rotate into a corner. This is aided by softer springs in front and/or very aggressive braking into a corner. But, very aggressive braking can make the rear of a MINI very loose and it will dance. MINIs also loose camber with body roll. This is where a big front sway bar (or stiff front springs) helps; it reduces the body roll. Less body roll, less camber loss. This will tend to offset the tendency for a big front swaybar to increase understeer. But it does need to be balanced by a larger rear bar. Too much of any one thing is not a good thing.
The biggest difference between RWD and FWD is how to get the car to rotate. The bane of a MINI is to straight line brake and get on the gas before the apex of a turn. This will create terminal understeer (no, it does not pull the car though the corner). I believe this is where the “conventional wisdom” of “alls a FWD needs for better handling is a big RSB and you can even get rid of the front sway bar” comes from. People are on the gas too early and they mechanically loosen the rear to create rotation. This actually hurts traction and is slower. And it hurts the ability to trail brake deep into a corner as the car will tend to want to swap ends. Don’t get me wrong, a little stiffer in the rear can be a good thing; it is all about balance.
In driving a MINI, rotation into a turn is solely a function of braking. In a high power RWD car, the gas can be used to create rotation. I see a lot of straight line braking in RWD cars and gas is applied early. I catch a lot of cars going into corners by late braking and trail braking. Use of trail braking is especially important in a street/track car given the softer suspension than would be in an outright race prepped MINI. In a long sweeper, the outer front tire scrub is just something to live with, frustrating as it may be. On and off the gas can be used to create some rotation, but that only works just so much. Increased static camber and caster also helps. -3 deg is about the limit for MINIs; above that there is a loss of braking. Oh, a touch of toe-in front and rear... Toe out would be good for autocross, but this isn’t talking about autocross. The last thing that a driver needs is a twitchy car a 130 mph on the back straight of WGI and there is no need faster steering response going up up through the esses on that track. Slowly and carefully is the name of the game there.
The MINI responds well to smooth inputs; abrupt is not its friend. At least in a MINI that is still highly street based. My favorite is trailbraking into a corner and not planning it well so I windup “jumping” off the brake. This is a good way to get the car to spin... Well, not my “favorite”... Note to self... ease off the brakes when trailbraking...
Momentum driving is a big difference in driving a MINI over a high power car. A friend jokes “why use brakes, they just slow the car down”. I learned that momentum driving is learned by picking a early point to lift off the gas for a corner (no braking) so that I could coast into a corner and then get on the gas at the apex. If the speed at the apex is less than what the car can handle, then move that early point further down the track on the next lap. There are a few corners that I used to brake for that I found that I can actually take flat out or with just a light lift using this this technique. This also works for learning how to brake for a corner and how to not over brake. In some cases braking early and lighter is better than late and hard.
Brake pad... use the same front and rear. Some will say a less aggressive pad in the rear. I have not found that to be true.
Like I said... Something to ponder. Everyone has their own ideas on this subject. This is just some of mine...
Watching MINIs race is almost always fun. From the Brits racing classic Minis to the Gen III MINIs that raced in the IMSA ST class and now in the TC America TCA class. There is now a new MINI in the TC class which is being called the “MINI Pro”. This car is based off the MINI GP 3. While I don’t have details, I suspect strongly that the parts from the GP that it uses are the engine (for the power and reinforcement), the track width and those big huge brakes. With the fender flares, the MINI Pro looks a bit like the classic MINI with flares (hey, no Boo’s here. This is just my opinion).
The MINI Pro has been around since early this season and has had some teething pains, including a really bad crash at VIR which looked to have destroyed the car. In this latest race at Sebring the car seems to have come into its own. It was really fast and lead the class, until it had to pit early. Not sure exactly why, but if I could guess by the handling changed, the bumps of Sebring may have destroyed a shock or 2...
Here is Race 2 from Sebring. The MINI Pro is featured in the opening credits. This race is worth watching not only for the MINIs but for the race itself...
If that is not enough, Base Coopers are being races a lot in SCCA B-Spec class and, in fact, a MINI won that class the in the Runoffs that were recently held at Indianapolis Motor Speedway. A truly exciting race last Friday; go to time stamp 8:12 for the B-Spec Race:
Fall has fallen around here. About half the leaves have turned. While today there is a southern breeze bringing warmth and a lot of moisture into the area, that is soon to change, with rain later today and temperatures predicted to not to break out of the 50s next week.
This means that it is time to prep Albert for the upcoming cold weather. Mostly that means the AS tires go on the car to replace the great Conti DW summer tires. This year, it also meant that the track brake pads come out and the MINI pads go back in.
As for brake pads, the iSweep worked well for the street. There was a noticeable drop in brake pad bite with the stock pads, even cold. And the iSweep were only a touch noisy. However the biggest issue with running race pads on the street is rotor wear. Both front and rear (yes, I run full race pads in the rear to balance the front) rotors had wear on them. I am sure some of that is from the track but clearly there was aggressive wear on them from the street use. Note to self... Switch out the track pads after an event ...
Brake pad wedging is an issue with the brakes on this car, as is a difference in wear rate of the outside pad vs the inside pad. To control this, I will generally flip the pads inside to outside and vice versa once a day. I did run the Ti heat shields, mostly to assess how they affect the brake pedal feel. Not sure they had any affect at all with respect to that.
Here are the latest pads after 3 track days...
Latest pads after 3 track days
Previous set after 5 days, vs new
I have had a few thoughts about the brake lumpies I experienced this year that I didn’t experience last year. “Lumpies” being something happening with the front brakes where, for the first couple of laps of a track session, the brakes are smooth and then it feels like the rotors warp. A few posts above I proposed that it may have been due to the different wheels I was using this year. Clearly they could prevent heat from escaping from the rotors, calipers and pads because of having less clearance there. This may have caused the pads to be over heated and leave pad deposits on the rotors. I still think that plays into the lumpies. However, I now think I may have compounded the issue by switching pads between the stock pads and the iSweep and the 2 pad compounds not being compatible. I know that Carbotech is really particular in their instructions about not mixing pad compound types.
So for next year I think I will invest in a dedicated set of front rotors to go with the Carbotech race pads and for a “street” pad I will switch the race pads with the AX6 pad, which is an autocross pad. I have tried the Carbotech street pad and really didn’t like it because it had no bite.
As for front pad wear, I used the iSweep pad for a 3 day event and that used up about half the pad. This is about the same as I saw the with the first set. So, again, 5 to 6 days out of a set of pads for this car... $$$s considering the cost of pads...
Switching back to those craptastic HanKook AS tires resulted in a bit of a surprise. After taking them off earlier in the year, they sat in the basement until now. As can happen, they lost a little air pressure. The TPMS report TPs of 29 to 32 psi at the 4 corners... Hmmmmm... A bit lower than the ridiculous 42 psi MINI requires... But, wait, what is this? The ride is at least as good as the Conti DWs with about 34 psi pressure, if not better. And on the highway the wandering I felt before with Hankooks was pretty much gone. And a quick check of the instantaneous MPG (on a section of road I have traveled and check MPG a lot on) showed that the gas mileage with the Hankooks to be better than the same size DWs. There might yet be hope for these tires.
The transformation from track beast to highway cruiser is complete. When the snows come, Albert will become a garage queen. The Wrangle is due to get a new set of KO2s in the near future to replace the aged-out KOs that are currently on it and have served it well. I hope to get to the ski slopes this year and the Wrangle is the right beast for facilitating that...
So, cresting the hill the car gets light and looses traction and pushes wide...
and the road falls away to the outside.
with the blind apex the driver didn’t realize that they needed to start turning before they did and before they knew it, they were drifting off the side of the road
It all went wrong cresting this hill
You can see in the tracks how the car was turning ever so slightly Once in the grass, there was no correcting the problem
But clearly the car didn’t turn enough That is 6 to 10 inches deep where the car gouged into the hillside
And up and over the embankment it went Somehow the car managed to not flip
I think the thing that saved the car from rolling was it hit the upward incline at an angle and that caused the left side of the car to rise before the right side. Then, after cresting the hill and coming back down, the right side hit first which gave it a chance to land flat, without rolling. I saw nothing that indicated that the car had to be righted and the tow truck/flatbed (?) tracks are going right up where the car appeared to land.
This is the second time in about 2 years this has happened... On a 30 mph city road. It was wet out last night, but even at 30 there is no way this would have happened. I am guessing 60 to 90 mph. I know, I am betting on the spread...
Well, if there was anything good to come out of this, it is likely that car won’t be back on the road and the person driving (a kid, my guess) likely won’t be able to afford another one... Got to love Darwinism...
It did, however, give me an excuse to take the dog on a different route for his walk...
One thing that I really love about Albert is its headlights. These are awesome. I thought the headlights on Blue, our ‘04 R50 were the best, but Albert’s now take the prize. The beam pattern on both is great. Low beam does a really good job of flooding the road with light without blinding oncoming drivers. On high beam, Blue’s lights leave the low beams on when the high beams come on. This leave a flood of light in front of the car while adding a lot of light further down the road. Interesting that this feature of having both bulbs on disappeared with the R56 and I reset the fog lights to provide this fill in lighting when the highs are one. Why did BMW/MINI decide to make this change? ... Don’t know. Albert’s lights are similar to Blue’s with the high and low beams working in tandem.
What sets the lights on Blue and Albert apart is the difference in the actual light. Blue uses a halogen bulb, whereas Albert uses LED. What a difference. I remember back to the ‘60 and the sealed beam, incandescent headlights that were mandated for cars. These were almost useless at night. Then in the ‘70s halogen headlights came into legal existence. These were literally a lifesaver. The halogens were “white” in comparison to the older seal beams. These then became the standard for 30+ years. With the evolution of the LED headlights, we now have a new standard, and these are as much better than the halogens as the halogens were better than the old seal beams.
So why this story about lights?
One of Albert’s stablemates is a 2006 Jeep Wrangler, which performs winter duties so the MINIs can stay put in their garage spaces. With winter duties, the Wrangler does a lot of driving in the dark. But with the old school 7” round headlights, which are really poor, and they suck, driving in the dark is no fun. Being close together may look “classic”, but “classic” in this case doesn’t help. With the later model Wrangles, Jeep included 7” round LED headlights and with my experience with the LED headlights on Albert I thought updating the lights would be a good idea. I also found that there are a bunch of options for LED headlights for the Wrangler... In doing searches for lights I came across this YouTube post that reviewed a bunch, like a lot, of these options:
And a lot of these options are pure crap. I love the way this guy shows his disdain for crap... He takes them to a skeet shooting range...
But he also does a really good review, with some good technical detail. I have opted for the Truck-light replacements (time stamp 18:30). While there several that may have been better, these have heated lenses to keep snow from covering them. That is important around here considering my winter sport is skiing and I have been known to take off early in a blinding snowstorm to catch fresh tracks...
The downside to this is living in the rust belt, everything is rusty on a winter vehicle. I opted to change out the headlight holders along with the lights so I would have working adjustment screws. There seem to something on every car that makes a simple job hard. In this case it is the mounting studs that are screwed into the housing but have a flange on them that is up against the car body sheet metal and the mounting nut is on the other side. With the mounting nut rusted in place the stud just unscrews from the holder leaving the stud still in place with no good way to get it out. Vice-grips and a wrench worked on several studs, but one required a grinder to cut the nut off. Of course, this was in a tight spot which the Dremel barely fit into.
Well, that is done and I am extremely happy with the results.
Truck-Lite vs Halogen vendor picture
And the result on the Wrangler is even better than what this shows. For anyone who is curious, they also make a 5x7 (not sure if I got the size exactly right) replacement for older Wrangler and Cherokees and the like.
Last week we had a violent thunder storm come through. Yes, a December thunderstorm and it might have been snowing at the time. Ok, nothing like what just went through Kentucky and those states, but still one particular flash of lightening had thunder that shook the house. Yesterday, I found this about 200 yds from my house...
Lightening damaged tree
There was more damage on the other side. I have seen lightening strikes on trees before, but, usually it is only one strip of bark torn off from the top to bottom. This tree had 3 or 4 strips around the trunk and just above the limb at the top of this picture (out of sight here) there was is a large area, maybe, about a square foot of bark that is blown off. It is like the lightening got trapped there for an instant before it divided and continued down the tree.... Glad that wasn’t my house...
On a brighter note...
I got new tires for Albert...
Errrrr...
I mean Linus, our 2006 Wrangler.
Besides, the 15” wheels these go on wouldn’t clear the brakes on Albert...
And Albert is a garage queen this time of year. Snow is too cold for his dainty feet..
The BF Goodrich KOs that are on it are 12 years old, and have weather cracks. There is still legal tread on them, but they old and over half gone. These come with 15/32”, so even at 2/3s gone that leaves 5/32” to use, so it is tempting to run them another season. But I expect as winter settles in, I will be thankful for the full tread when I head out to go skiing in the middle of a snow storm. Plus, these are the updated version of what I currently have, which have been fantastic. From what I have read and reviews I have seen these are improved over the original. So, what is better than fantastic? Awesome? I’ll let you know.
When at a race track for a race day or otherwise, it is important to have the right support hardware with you. But with a MINI doing double duty as both the track vehicle and the travel “truck” for everything that is needed, it isn’t always easy to take everything that one might like to bring. Everything needs to be MINI sized and have a purpose.
One thing I really miss at a lot of tracks I visit is 120v power and a generator just isn’t going to fit. Plus they stink, are noisy, and take maintenance. So, for years I have done without. Until now...
In my spare time I built a “gasless generator”. Ok, not really a “generator”; it is a power supply:
Portable Power
It is a 12v DC, 5v USB and 120v, 300W AC pure sine wave (good for sensitive electronics) power supply . It runs on a Li-Fe 12v battery that has a 480 watt-hr capacity. It weighs about 21 lbs and take up about half a cubic ft of space (MINI sized). It will be nice for places like LRP where there is no 120v outlets around. And, yes, I could have bought something almost exactly like this, for about the same price as I spent on this, not counting my time. But they didn’t have that cool 15w (really freaking bright) LED light on the top. The real reason I built this is the ones that can be bought are sealed and the batteries are not replaceable if a cell goes bad. Also the Li-Fe battery I used isn’t prone to catching fire as the Li Ion batteries are, and it can be charged with a basic 12v car battery charger.
And, if power happens to go out in our house, it will be handy for keeping things going. And if more is needed, its bigger brother (I built a while back) is there to help.
Take care everyone...
Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
A few days ago we got a good rain that washed the salt off the roads, they then dried, after which it turn cold enough to not have water running across the streets. So Albert got to stretch his legs a bit. Oh what fun.
I have been driving the Wrangler, with its very optimistic 150-ish Hp and about 500# more weight, and got a big surprise when I first goosed the throttle on Albert... Wow, this guy got up and scooted... . That caught me by surprise. I had forgotten what it was like to drive a quick car.... That put a smile on my face...
For anyone who follows me knows that I believe the way to setup and drive a MINI is to keep a touch of understeer in the suspension and then use heavy trailbraking to bring the car into the apex of a corner. It is not often to come across a video that shows drivers trail braking deep into a corner, but recently one popped up as a recommendation on YouTube. These cars may not be MINI Coopers - - but the drivers illustrate how this is done... Right up to the apex. Amazing drivers and cars. And this is how it is done.
A few days ago we got a good rain that washed the salt off the roads, they then dried, after which it turn cold enough to not have water running across the streets. So Albert got to stretch his legs a bit. Oh what fun.
I have been driving the Wrangler, with its very optimistic 150-ish Hp and about 500# more weight, and got a big surprise when I first goosed the throttle on Albert... Wow, this guy got up and scooted... . That caught me by surprise. I had forgotten what it was like to drive a quick car.... That put a smile on my face...
For anyone who follows me knows that I believe the way to setup and drive a MINI is to keep a touch of understeer in the suspension and then use heavy trailbraking to bring the car into the apex of a corner. It is not often to come across a video that shows drivers trail braking deep into a corner, but recently one popped up as a recommendation on YouTube. These cars may not be MINI Coopers - - but the drivers illustrate how this is done... Right up to the apex. Amazing drivers and cars. And this is how it is done. https://youtu.be/yq0ePuY17jY
Enjoy and motor on...
In the 1980's I attended the Bondurant Driving School at Sears Point several times with a group of friends. Trail Braking was drilled into us. The theories, lengthen the straight and slower in faster out.
I have heard that this was a made-up saying to protect the in-car instructors when dealing with novice/intermediate level drivers. I have also heard that saying from HPDE instructors I have had over the years. Makes sense that if someone enters a turn “slow” there is margin to correct mistakes. A big mistake I know of, personally, is entering a turn too early and not having margin. Boy, does that screw up the exit when at speed. However, the professional race car driver and several other high end drivers I know point out that the quickest away around a race track is to do everything fast, including “fast in; fast out”. Watching that video I was amazed at how quickly they were taking that corner. There was left nothing on the table... So great to watch professionals drive...
I have heard that this was a made-up saying to protect the in-car instructors when dealing with novice/intermediate level drivers. I have also heard that saying from HPDE instructors I have had over the years. Makes sense that if someone enters a turn “slow” there is margin to correct mistakes. A big mistake I know of, personally, is entering a turn too early and not having margin. Boy, does that screw up the exit when at speed. However, the professional race car driver and several other high end drivers I know point out that the quickest away around a race track is to do everything fast, including “fast in; fast out”. Watching that video I was amazed at how quickly they were taking that corner. There was left nothing on the table... So great to watch professionals drive...
Sure didn't seem like BS to me. At the time we were being taught by Bob Bondurant and some other pro drivers and they were (in depth) explaing the physics of handling (tire footprints, weight shift, etc.) And you had to learn what they taught. Our group attended 5 different times. When I auto crossed my 911, the smooth style required for high speed driving had to be ignored. If you drove on a high speed road course and drove like auto crossers, you would be spinning donuts without finishing a lap.
Sure didn't seem like BS to me. At the time we were being taught by Bob Bondurant and some other pro drivers and they were (in depth) explaing the physics of handling (tire footprints, weight shift, etc.) And you had to learn what they taught. Our group attended 5 different times. When I auto crossed my 911, the smooth style required for high speed driving had to be ignored. If you drove on a high speed road course and drove like auto crossers, you would be spinning donuts without finishing a lap.
I didn’t mean for my comment to make it sound like the quote was BS, although I understand how it came across that way. My apologies.
I believe all of what you say is true. And I believe that slow in, fast out is a good way way to learn to drive on a race course. It will be the safest way to learn and as one learns, the “slow in” can be made to be faster without risking the driver, instructor and/or car.
Interesting about what you said about your experience between autocross and driving fast on a road course in a 911. I have found the same to be true for the MINIs I have. One difference being that if my MINI isn’t driven smoothly on a road course, it won’t be doing donuts. It will be frustrating to drive and slow around the course. However, I will note that a MINI can be made/setup to drive like an older 911 and have propensity to want to swap ends. I had one of those and that didn’t end well.
You got me thinking about where I saw that “protect the instructor” explanation for the “slow in, fast out” quote. So, just for fun I did a search. It is amazing what you can find...
Then there is an article by a race car driver. He calls it a “myth” in the title, but then goes on to say that it isn’t quite a myth. He does talk about using that as a way to learn to build speed in the approach to the apex. Nothing about it to be to protect the instructor, though. https://jalopnik.com/why-the-slow-in...a-myth-5937814
Now I couldn’t find that quote here, but this one has a bunch of other driving tidbits. One thing that comes out of this article is something that I have found. That is, there are differences as to how different cars should be driven to get the most out of them. One of the things I found is that most instructors know how what it takes to drive a RWD car fast, but not a FWD car. Some of those RWD things don’t work well on a MINI, especially a near stock one. Another thing that this article shows is how speed in a corner is not necessarily an indication of how quickly (time-wise) one is going thought a corner... Hmmm.... that is a new one on me...
When I went to the Bondurant driving schools, they taught a technique that required some repetition to master it. And as you progressed, you could brake later into the turn at a higher speed and still catch the car..Driving the Formula Fords was a revelation, but the technique was still similar, Just the balance of the car was different. The YouTube that you introduced clearly shows that trail braking is a big part of today's racing,
I have one other pet peeve about these manufacturers driving schools. Sure they show then how fast they can go around a corner in their Porsche. But turn off the computer crap and really teach them how to drive a Porsche. Sorry for the rant
I have one other pet peeve about these manufacturers driving schools. Sure they show then how fast they can go around a corner in their Porsche. But turn off the computer crap and really teach them how to drive a Porsche. Sorry for the rant
We watch a lot of IMSA racing and it is interesting to hear the announcers talk about the different classes of cars and the driver’s aids that those classes have for the drivers to use. Some have ABS and traction control, and others don’t. I sometimes wonder if the aids help or hinder the sport... For the spectator, were the “Ford vs Ferrari” days better than what we get to see today? I am sure that could argued for ever... As for HPDEs, I leave them on in my MINIs. Something about wanting to be able to drive the car home. The tracks I frequent are very unforgiving and almost any error will become very costly. I suspect the Mfg driving schools are thinking the same sort of thing.
Interestingly, in the MINIs I have found that if I am driving correctly I can almost reach the limits of adhesion before the aids kick in. If they do kick in, I usually know immediately that I made a mistake and what it was. On the other hand, I have hit antifreeze at 100+ in the middle of the esses at Watkins Glen where the guardrail is 2’ off the side of the track. There are times where I will take all the help I can get..
In the end, I suspect the use of aids in a car should be a function of where and how far one wants to go with their learning. I know you can really step up your game from driving the Formula Fords or any other barebones car (like the stock truck I drove). Driving in the wet is another place to learn a lot.
For me, it is about the fun, the learning and driving back home...
I watched this YouTube "Shmee" drive the JCW series cars in Europe. No handling computer stuff. These cars are very difficult to drive. The guys trailbrake deep into the turns and then they step on the pedal knowing that they're going understeer at the exit, but the rearend will lose traction if they let off ( major weight shift) and spinout. Those MINI's are a real handful to drive. I think they do a lot of left foot braking. I could see an auto transmission helping someone in an autocross with two pedals.
Last edited by dpcompt; 02-24-2022 at 07:33 PM.
Reason: change
Actually, I think I saw that same video. He did a nice walk around of the car and then went out and looped it at one point, if I remember right. I also seem to remember the regular driver of the car did talk about how it should be driven, which was interesting.
The guys trailbrake deep into the turns and then they step on the pedal knowing that they're going understeer at the exit
This is my goal when driving my MINIs, but I struggle a bit with consistency. I suspect that has to do with lack of seat time compared to someone who regularly races the car.
And, yes, even setup with enough understeer to allow trail braking deep into a corner, it may still “over rotate” with too much of a lift of the throttle. Throttle steering in a MINI is useful in some corners, but it needs to be done with great care especially at higher speeds.
I have tried to do left-foot braking in my R56 and clearly the computer dumps the boost as soon as the brake is applied and it takes forever for the boost to come back. Much worse than just doing the usual right foot braking. I have tried left foot braking on Gen 3 dealer loaner cars with the automatic and it seems to work on those. So, the computer seems to be setup differently on those. And the paddle shifters MINIs now have are great for racing/track, but boring and pretty much useless in daily driving. So, likely you are right about an automatic being the way to go for autocross, especially in a Gen 3 with the paddle shifters.
Most important is eliminating the element of surprise. We can master anything with mental preparation. We all know that we are supposed to skid around on the first frozen parking lot we find when winter arrives. Similarly when I started autocrossing one of the regulars kept pushing me faster and faster through the slalom until the car broke traction. Not an easy task in a non S MINI.
09-07-2021, 09:03 AM
Note to self... ease off the brakes when trailbraking...
- but the drivers illustrate how this is done... Right up to the apex. Amazing drivers and cars. And this is how it is done.
Much worse than just doing the usual right foot braking. I have tried left foot braking on Gen 3 dealer loaner cars with the automatic and it seems to work on those. So, the computer seems to be setup differently on those. And the paddle shifters MINIs now have are great for racing/track, but boring and pretty much useless in daily driving. So, likely you are right about an automatic being the way to go for autocross, especially in a Gen 3 with the paddle shifters.