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Actually, I think I saw that same video. He did a nice walk around of the car and then went out and looped it at one point, if I remember right. I also seem to remember the regular driver of the car did talk about how it should be driven, which was interesting.
This is my goal when driving my MINIs, but I struggle a bit with consistency. I suspect that has to do with lack of seat time compared to someone who regularly races the car.
And, yes, even setup with enough understeer to allow trail braking deep into a corner, it may still “over rotate” with too much of a lift of the throttle. Throttle steering in a MINI is useful in some corners, but it needs to be done with great care especially at higher speeds.
I have tried to do left-foot braking in my R56 and clearly the computer dumps the boost as soon as the brake is applied and it takes forever for the boost to come back. Much worse than just doing the usual right foot braking. I have tried left foot braking on Gen 3 dealer loaner cars with the automatic and it seems to work on those. So, the computer seems to be setup differently on those. And the paddle shifters MINIs now have are great for racing/track, but boring and pretty much useless in daily driving. So, likely you are right about an automatic being the way to go for autocross, especially in a Gen 3 with the paddle shifters.
I get your not liking "left foot braking". I am not comfortable with it either. But when I was a kid( long ago ), I had a go kart and you broke with your left foot. Today's stars are perfectly comfortable with 2 pedals a left foot braking.
I get your not liking "left foot braking". I am not comfortable with it either. But when I was a kid( long ago ), I had a go kart and you broke with your left foot. Today's stars are perfectly comfortable with 2 pedals a left foot braking.
Oh, I am plenty comfortable doing left foot braking. I was taught left foot braking when I was a teen and first learned to drive as a way to deal with bumper to bumper traffic.
As I said, it is the car (the R56 with the manual) that won’t let me. I tried it when doing autocross. As I said, if my right foot is on the gas and I hit the brake with the left, the computer dumps the boost. When that happens there is no power and the boost doesn’t come back quickly. So, no point in doing left foot braking in my MINI. I don’t know if it works in the R53, but it doesn’t work in the R56.
First came the Jeep with a temperature not in range... What?!!!
And today it was Albert. Now he just came out of the garage after a few weeks of being in there and I noticed a few things amiss... The AC was on. Hmmmm... That wasn’t me.
Then on the way home from a 15 mile ride the check engine light came on. Sorry don’t remember the code #, but it had to do with intake air flow too high... Hmmmm (again)... it was running fine. So when I got home I pulled out my handy dandy OBDII dongle and fired up Dash Command and cleared the code. It’s gone. Took it for a test drive and no repeat. Maybe the EZ Pass reader on the Thruway triggered it...
I do have critters that sometimes get in under the hood, so tomorrow when it is a bit warmer I’ll pull the air filter and check for nests and I will check wiring.
Oh, by the way, next month, my warranty ends...
As for the Jeep, I cleared that code too with Dash Command and that has not come back either...
Oh, and, Blue, our R50 with the CVT, has come down with a CVT virus. Not sure which one, but it is not the belt. Something else... That is for another, warmer, day...
What is it with these phase of the moon car issues?...
Albert got a wash to get off the winter grime. I find it amazing that just sitting in the garage he gets dirty. Well, that is gone and he is lookin’ Good...
When it gets a little warmer and nicer I’ll get out the polishing compound and get him really shiny.
I also realized that next month is the end of year 3 of ownership. Warranty will be over... Hmmmm - I wonder what mods he might like...
Track season is about to start around here. Likely it will be Smokey who has first dibs for a day at LRP towards the end of April. Albert will have to wait patiently for his turn. In the meantime, I’ll need to be getting the dust and whatnot out of and off of Smokey.
Hope everyone has a great spring. Summer is not too far away..
Yesterday was a trip to the Dealer for Albert’s last oil change and checkup on their nickel. I also got the state inspection done. He has been declared fit for another year... Woo Hoo.
This also means that there was no “residual” stored in the ECU from that check engine light. I still wonder what that was all about... Hmmmm?
I did learn that Albert has a warning that pops up as a yellow triangle with an explanation mark in it when he is due for state inspection, emissions testing and servicing. This is really annoying as it is only slightly important and it takes some digging though menus to find what this is all about and not something that effects the drivability of the car... A nice thing is, that when these do pop up, I can at least reset the ones for emissions and state inspection through the menu options. The car service warning still needs to be reset by the dealer or an app... Ugh
Well, with that all done, it is back to Motoring in proper style. And, maybe, soon, the summer tires will go on...
In 3 years of ownership of Albert, I have only put 11k on the car... less than 4K a year... and it has gotten an oil change once a year on MINI’s dime.
With 3 MINIs and a Jeep in the driveway, nothing gets driven a lot...
As for oil change intervals, once a year is recommended by MINI on a car that is not driven a lot. Moisture, which may not be driven off with short drives turns to acids and that, over time, cuts the life of the oil. For a DD, the general consensus is 5 to 10k on a good synthetic. What is a good synthetic? Depends on the driving. Street driving, most any name brand will do. For the track, spend the money... Redline, Motul are two I like. I have tried Castrol, Mobil 1 and probably a few others, which are good for a day or 2. The Redline and Motul I will change after 3 or 4 days. The turbo on the R56 cooks the crap out of the oil (250 deg is not unusual on my R56). Oils don’t last long under that abuse. I don’t know the oil temps on the F56, but I expect they are better as the JCW engine has a lot better cooling than any other MINI.
Back when BMW started with these long life oil changes I heard stories of CPO BMWs needing engine change outs under warrant because of the long oil change intervals. Our ‘04 R50 had an interval of something greater than 20k miles. At some point in time, that change to being in the teens. Synthetic is good, but not that good.
Last note on this, I used to follow someone who religiously had their oil tested by Blackstone and did this at different intervals. What he report was after 11-12k the oil would be too degraded, but it was good up to that point.
Anyone following me know that I like following sports car racing. Since owning a MINI in 2003, MINI racing has tugged at my racing interest. It seems that MINI was into racing with the Gen I MINIs but that died out with the Gen II MINIs. Not surprising given the engine issues and limited room to do anything like add brake cooling.
Then came along the Gen III MINIs and MINI racing took off again. Most prominent was LAP Motorsports entries in the IMSA ST class, where they were quite successful. Since then, IMSA dropped that class, but the cars were eligible to race in the SRO TCA class, which will start again April 15th (I think). At any rate, the races will be streamed live on YouTube...
And LAP Motorsports seems to be upping their game a bit by putting out YouTube videos of what they are up to...
For the record, MINI has done more with the Gen III MINI to lock it down from prying eyes and serious modding than they did on the other 2 generations; Gen I was an open book in comparison. They have even hidden the brake fluid reservoir under a piece cowling that has to be removed to get to it. Gone it the little plastic door the Gen II had. And have you even looked to see what needs to be done to change the oil filter? Well nothing could be as bad as the Gen II with the turbo. But still, hide it behind a special door in body work under the engine? Ugh. No wonder MINI gets the big $$ for and oil change.
And so it goes. For suspension, it has always been hard to find spring rates, but the sway bar size were readily available on realoem.com. Until now...
But it is out there for those looking to improve the handling of their MINI and want to know where they are coming from and going to...
NM has listed the following for F56 MINIs:
Rear Sway Bar
Base Cooper - 19mm solid - 182 #/in
Sport Suspension & JCW - 21mm tubular - 253 #/in (39% over base)
NM RSB (soft/hard settings)
22mm solid - 298/375 #/in (63%/106% over base)
25mm tubular - 510/642 #/in (180%/252% over base)
Whiteline also makes RSB:
24mm Solid -
my estimate - nominally 154% stiffer than the base, but with 2 settings which likely puts it slightly softer and slightly stiffer than the softer setting of the NM 25mm RSB. So slightly softer and slightly stiffer than 180% over the base.
As for Front Sway Bars
Base - 22.5mm
Sport - 23.5mm (19% over base)
JCW - 24mm (25% over base)
Whiteline - 30 mm (167% over base)
I find it interesting that MINI/BMW uses the same RSB in the “S” and the JCW. However, that RSB is paired with a larger FSB in the JCW. At first blush, that would say they moved in the direction of more understeer for the JCW. However, without knowing the difference in front and rear spring rates between the 2 models, that conclusion can not be made with respect to the car’s overall roll stiffness. Shock also play into this equation...
By my seat of the pant estimate - with the JCW Pro suspension - MINI/BMW did well at taming the understeer of the JCW.
For what it is worth, if I were to make a dedicated f56 MINI track toy, I would start with the JCW (better engine, brakes and cooling than the S), add the 30mm FSB and 25mm RSB, then add adjustable coilovers. Not sure which coilovers... the MINI race car that LAP builds uses KWs. Bilsteins are interesting with the progressive rate springs, which might pair well with the sway bars. Then there is AST for $$$. Camber adjustment is a given, but caster adjustment needs to be in there too. Finish all of that off with PowerFlex bushings all around.
Nope, that is not happening any time soon, if ever. Funny thing is, I like Albert just the way he is. Competent on the track and a joy on the street...
I ski. I have since the 1950s. Yup I am that old. I started out on wood skis, screwed in metal edges, bear trap bindings and lace up leather boots. It is a sport that I have struggled to master. Have I yet? Maybe, but it is always hard to critique one’s self. Same for any sport; mastering autocross or driving on the track are no different. I alway strive to learn more and I have a lot still to learn. But, I will say something did come to mind not long ago after a great day of skiing... I thought - I now ski like I wished I could ski... I have found that there are few things that apply to both skiing and driving - smooth is good and it is all about technique. Equipment helps or hurts, but it is not a fix for the other 2 things.
So, last Friday was my last day of skiing for the season... Drove the Wrangler... Why? Because that is what I have it for. The season went well and it ended on a good note. A beautiful spring day at Gore Mtn in the southeast central part of the Adirondacks Mtns in Up State NY.
After I parked and was unloading, a WRX came in and put a smile on my face:
And the gauntlet has been thrown down
Then, walking through the parking lot I saw this...
Yup - it is strapped on that way
In all of the years I have been skiing, this is a first...
This is the view from just below the top of Gore. Spectacular! The Adirondack High Peaks in the distance
I know, for those of you who live in the Rockies, this may look to be a bit - Meh...
But, in that cluster of “hills” are 46 peaks over 4000 feet of elevation at their peaks. Ya, still not impressive. But consider that the base of these is at something between 1000 and 2000 feet. Some are over a 3000 ft climb. Now that makes for a pretty good hike. And, for those wanting a challenge, try hiking them in the winter... There is a club for those who have hiked to the top of each peak... The 46ers... and the name of each person who has is recorded. My name is on a few of these peaks from back in the day...
Mt Marcy is in the center of this picture, at the right edge of the large cloud in the center. Mt Marcy in the center
At 5343’ of elevation, it is a 3170’ high climb from its base.
Whiteface is one of those peaks. It was also home to 2 Olympics for the ski racing venue. The 2 runs off the top are Cloud Spin and Skyward. Both about 1800ft of vertical, about half the total vertical for the area, and neither flatten out as they approach the lift. A black diamond to their end. Then there are the double diamond slides for those up for a bit of a hike.
While ski areas here may not be as vast as some other places. They do offer challenges for anyone. Add to that conditions that range from a 30 to 40” powder day, to polished powder (aka white ice)... As the saying goes - if you can ski the east you can ski anywhere. And yes, I have skied elsewhere, Utah in particular. I “managed” nicely.
Just a bit of the reason I live in the NE.
Now time to prep Smokey for our first track day of the season...
Last edited by Eddie07S; 04-19-2022 at 08:10 AM.
Reason: Typo
In my learning process for driving fast on a track I have found that, while instruction is really good, especially in-car instruction, there tends to be a lack of technical explanation for why something works. This makes it difficult to translate that knowledge from one track to another. It is kind-of like see-and-say reading, which provides no skills for figuring out new words. Or in skiing where the instructor says do what I am doing. There are a lot of subtle aspects of skiing that one can’t see and it took me decades, literally, to figure out that ski turns all start in the lower back. Yup, I bet you never hear that one before... But that is a technical part of skiing that is never explained, and that is a story/explanation for another day.
I like technical explanations.
Elegance - I also like elegance. Elegance is the simplest thing that gets the job done. In an explanation, elegance is the simplest explanation. Simple is not necessarily “short” but it is the one almost anyone can understand, without being overly long.
How does a driver figure out the best way to drive a race track that they have never been on before and never seen? This is something I have pondered and actually done. With some success, I might add. Autocrossers have to do this all the time as every course is new. Really good autocrossers can do this almost instinctively. I am not that good.
The time it takes to go around a track for a given car is mostly a function of how quickly a driver gets around each of the corners. That would include braking, turn-in, apex, track out and acceleration. So, what is the technical explanation for each of those parts so a person can take that information to any track and use it to have their fastest time? Go figure - I don’t know...
But I am learning.
And it seems to me that a key part of any corner is where the “driving” apex is.
At some point in the driving instruction I have received I was provided with an elegant explanation as to how to determine where the driving apex is:
That is where, in a corner, the driver’s vision down the track starts to see further down the track ...
It took me a bit of driving on public roads to figure out how to implement that explanation. Why public roads? That is the place where you are typically driving slow enough with respect to the corner to actually see what is going on and digest that information. And practice is key to learning anything and this is like learning a new language. That is, get good enough at it such that “reading” it is automatic.
There are 2 other things to remember for quickness through a corner..
Carry the widest arc possible on the approach to the apex. And, the test for whether that apex point was correct is that after that point you can open up (straighten) the steering
One thing that I realized is that, to figure out where the driving apex is, one needs to drive through a corner backwards to figure out where ones vision sees the shortest distance down the track (looking straight ahead). Ok, that isn’t going to happen. But what I found I could do is to go slowly enough through the corner so that I could watch how my vision down the road compresses and how it expands. After a few corners I could then figure out what the visual cues are to define each of the corners so that I could quick determine that apex point. Then I started to adjust my turn in point and line on the road for each upcoming corner so as to “find” that apex quickly while driving. This is relatively easy to do for corners that I could see through. Not so easy on corners I couldn’t see through.
Of course it is more complicated than that, but those are the basics I came up with. I know, there are books out that explain all of this. But have you ever tried to read one of those? 3 pages in and I was asleep...
But I did come across a great video that adds nicely to the above:
And one thing that he touches on is the “Karting Line”. I never knew what that was but, it turns out that I have used that in the MINI for double apex corners. That is, 2 corners close enough together that the first apex could be ignored. For some corner pairs I have felt that the car performed better doing that and have had instructors question me why I was taking that line. I could never provide a good explanation as to “why” other than it felt better. Well, I like the explanation in this video...
Momentum.
In a MINI it is all about momentum. Well, not quite - one also needs to get all of the other bits right...
With an upcoming track day, first of the season, this was a good refresh.
Yes, eyes. Where to look. A huge aspect of driving...
In some respects we have something in common with a horse... We go where we are looking.
In one of my driving classroom sessions we were show a video of where a F1 driver is looking as they are driving on the track. It was a bit of a surprise. The F1 driver was fitted with special glasses that detected eye movement and this was recorded along with POV in-car video. The surprise was that the driver looked at the apex of each turn from the time they started the turn to the point that they reached the apex. Then their eyes would jump up to where they were headed.
Hmmm - I wonder if they were looking past the apex to the exit of they turn that they would drive straight over the grass at the apex...
Just something to think about along with everything else...
Smokey seems to have an issue with remembering his auto up feature for the windows. I had mentioned this on the “What did you do to your mini today?” tread and Yjsaabman responded with this:
You should be able to relearn the anti-trap function by cycling the windows a few times. Start windows up:
1: Hold the switch down until the window is fully down and continue to hold for 1-2 seconds after the window is completely down.
2: Hold the switch up until the window is completely up and continue to hold for 1-2 seconds after.
3: Repeat this process a total of 3 times for each window. This teaches in the stop points for the anti-trap so the one-touch will work again.
Given how large that thread is and with this happening a second time on Smokey, I figure it will be just a matter of time before I need for Albert. Or that someone else will need this. It will be easier to find here for the next time...
With Covid back in full swing in the NE and I have taken once again to avoiding people. With that, I have had time to browse things to do to Albert. This all may be a day dream, but who knows...
Dinan has come to like the 3rd Gen MINI, probably because it is a BMW at heart, which I am OK with as it brings us several new states of tune for the engine...
For “add on modules”, it looks like Dinan has replaced the Elite with the Dinantronics:
Upgraded wiring connections
The interesting thing about the Dinantronics is that it has 7 different power settings that can be switched from 0 (stock bypass with no power modifications) to 7 which is show in the following, but requires 93+ octane. The other interesting note is their “at the wheel” power for the stock JCW is 231 Hp which is a bit greater than the MINI advertised 228 Hp (presumably at the crank)... Hmmmm... I wonder how that is? A very optimistic dyno? MINI underrates their engine? Or a bit of both?
None the less, while the absolutes may be for bragging rights, I would guess the gains over the RPM range are real and I would think the best tell will be the “butt dyno”
Dinantronics claimed power
Dinan claims that the this new add-on connects to additional inputs and has a more refined tuning strategy that yields more power as a result (to quote their words).
So, it looks to a pretty good option for a bit more power, much the same as they Elite.
Dinan has also upped the game (or gain?) with a flash tune: Dinan Flash Tune
Again, I would take the absolute numbers with a grain of salt as they show 245 Hp at the wheels for the stock JCW That would be really optimistic But looking at the gains... The lower and mid RPM range really gets a big boost, while the top end the gain is a bit more modest. Be mindful when comparing the two charts, the module add-on is at 93 octane while the Dinan+ is at 91 octane.
It is also interesting that Dinan shows a “Stage 1” flash that is less expensive and with 91 octane is the same as the above, but with 93 octane is is about 5Hp more. The big difference is the price... ~$500 for this vs ~$900 for the Dinan+, and for the extra $400 you get a warranty.... Again... Hmmmm
The questions would be... Which of these would be usable on the track without some sort of code being thrown? And, are the brakes on the JCW up to the task without somehow adding ductwork for additional cooling? This is a deep rabbit hole to jump into.
I miss the days of stuff like this coming out for the R53 all the time. I just looked on find93.com - you've got plenty available in your neck of the woods. In ND, we have two stations - one in Fargo and one in Grand Forks. We do have an airport nearby though... hmm.
What sort of warranty do you get for that $400 more? A 50hp bump and look at that torque curve... Almost seems silly not to do it for that price. Do you have a Dinan place nearby, or would you have to send them your ecu?
I miss the days of stuff like this coming out for the R53 all the time. I just looked on find93.com - you've got plenty available in your neck of the woods. In ND, we have two stations - one in Fargo and one in Grand Forks. We do have an airport nearby though... hmm.
What sort of warranty do you get for that $400 more? A 50hp bump and look at that torque curve... Almost seems silly not to do it for that price. Do you have a Dinan place nearby, or would you have to send them your ecu?
Every gas station around me has 93 octane. A few have NA 91 (NA - being non-alcoholic - ) which actually runs better in my R56S. It made no difference in the F56 JCW.
I think if I were to get one of these Dinan products I would get the Dinantronics. The thing is, out on the track having more power will produce a quicker time, but it doesn’t mean I am driving any better. In fact more power may actually mask poorer driving. There is also the issue of a tune throwing a code. With the add on module the tune can be switch off. That can’t be done with a flash tune and the track event is done. For multi-day events, throwing a code would be expensive. The last thing is the effect a tune would have on brakes. The track I take Albert to is Watkins Glen. I doubt there are may, if any, tracks in this country that are as hard on brakes as the Glen is. Out of the 7 brake zones, 5 are downhill, typically the corner speeds are about 1/2 the straight line speed and there is little distance/time between brake zones for cooling to occur. I have shredded brakes there. A tune means more speed and more opportunity to shred them faster... So, the add on tune, that can be turned up from 0 to 7, makes a lot of sense as it allows the limits of the other parts of the car to be approached in increments. Also, if 7 isn’t enough and the car/brakes is/are handling the extra power then Dinan will allow the Dinantronics to be traded in a flash tune... As for warranty on the Stage 1 tune, I wouldn’t expect much, but I’ll confess that I didn’t look for the actual warranty information.
As for fun bits for these cars, yeah there was a lot for the R50/53s. In fact even MINI had a lot of neat parts for the car. Even the R50 had a line of JCW parts like a Base Cooper JCW exhaust and I believe there was a JCW head for that engine. I think a lot of the aftermarket stuff came as a result of people racing the car and the fact it was easy to work on for the non-racer. The racing got killed with the R56 when it was found out that the engine was crap and there was no way to duct air to the brakes. I think this helped to “kill” the aftermarket for the car. This went along with MINI moving away from promoting the car as being “unique” to one that would compete with Toyotas and the like. Mainstream...
This is a track is new to me, and It looks like the racing is really good. Watch and root for the MINIs. They are great fun to watch.
As for fun aftermarket parts for the F56... How about a front splitter that actually looks like it was made for the car and not like a 24 hr of Lemons race car add on:
Or a CAI that actually sucks in cold air from the hood scoop:
Thanks ECS for the great pictures and “stuff”.
Like I said - I am avoiding people and, yup, bored. So why not look at fun things for the car... :not:
I hear you. I was on quarantine for 7 of the past 10 days. All I did was surf MINI stuff on the web! But... it was productive at least - I know what I am going to do for the front brakes including all of the part numbers and who has them!
What if I said that driving a MINI on the track was the same as driving an F1 car?
Well, clearly not...
However, learning to drive faster in a car is all about what does the data tell you. There is a series of YouTube videos that analyze a Good lap vs a Great lap in a F1 race car. Believe it or not, these same driving difference apply equally to achieving a good lap vs a great lap in a MINI, or any other car for that matter. These videos also provide an analysis of the laps. Those analysis points can be used by anyone looking to evaluate their lap times.
One video I especially like is a comparison between Daniel Ricciardo and Lando Norris at the 2021 Spanish GP (no preview - you will need to click the black square to view this)
Of particular interest to me starts at time point 1:38. This describes a point I harp on with respect to setting up and driving a MINI. That is, the effect of driving through a corner with throttle on vs lifting off the throttle to create rotation in the corner and how keeping the throttle on creates oversteer, which compromises the exit of a corner.
Randy Pobst describes this well for a MINI Cooper at time point 4:40 in this video.
Setting up a MINI with a lot of roll stiffness in rear (eg: large RSB) without respective balance in the front will make this off throttle rotation difficult to perform as the car will tend to want to over rotate (think of that as “swap ends”). To counter this, the driver will need to drive through the corner (likely all corners) with a certain amount of throttle applied. As shown in the first video this will likely result in compromised corners... And the car will be a one trick pony that can only be driven through most corners with the throttle applied.
Of course, each corner on a track is unique and there are places/corners where an early turn-in and early application of the throttle (ie: the creation of a bit of push) can work to ones benefit. This is where data and knowing how to review data can make one faster.
I like to think of this as setting up a car to be versatile. With a versatile car the driver can use the throttle and brakes to more effectively steer a car, making the car quicker on the track.
And don’t get me wrong... I am all for removing understeer from the MINIs - to a point...
Regarding "eyes" and going where you look...this certainly works when I ride my mountain bike in turns! Just can't be quick unless I'm looking as far up as I can possibly make myself look, with quick glances to hit points where I'd rather my tires to track. Unlike in a car, though, getting off the seat also helps in rough/sharp turns....B-)
02-25-2022, 08:09 PM
Much worse than just doing the usual right foot braking. I have tried left foot braking on Gen 3 dealer loaner cars with the automatic and it seems to work on those. So, the computer seems to be setup differently on those. And the paddle shifters MINIs now have are great for racing/track, but boring and pretty much useless in daily driving. So, likely you are right about an automatic being the way to go for autocross, especially in a Gen 3 with the paddle shifters.
and it has gotten an oil change once a year on MINI’s dime.
But looking at the gains... The lower and mid RPM range really gets a big boost, while the top end the gain is a bit more modest. Be mindful when comparing the two charts, the module add-on is at 93 octane while the Dinan+ is at 91 octane.
