I've been starting to think of replacing my Miata with a MCS. The Miata has been great and I might keep it on as a dedicated track school/autox car, but might sell as well. Enough about the Miata. No one wants to hear about that.

After initially looking at used Minis, I had decided I would eventually order an 05/06: Sport/LSD/Chrono (want oil pressure gauge). That's it. Some dealer stuff (rally lights, ipod adapter).

No sunroof (6'2" and will need to get a helmet in there as well). Comes out to just less than 24K. Not bad at all. Plus a MFS wheel for cruise control.

There's a 03 IB/B (I think it's Indi, I'm new to all this ). Loaded with everything but Chrono and Nav. I think I could live with the Sunroof if I had too. 18K on the clock.They started at 24K, then it slid to 21,900. They're down to 19,900 now.

I've had it out on a test drive. Tempting. It would take me a while to find the ideal seating position with the sunroof in there. It's going to be an adjustment either way from the Miata.

Sounds like the jury is still out on the OEM LSD. Which, is one of the sticking points for me on this '03.

I've done some reading. I guess my immediate questions:
1. In anyone's opinion is the factory LSD up to the job on an auto-x course?
2. Are we stumbling into the end of the insane resale value of these cars?
3. Aside from the LSD, the different MFSW, and other interior mods, am I missing out on anything else from an '05 if I go the used route? (So many people have traded this model year to get into an '05 I wonder if I'm missing something.)

Sorry for the long, first post but I had to break the ice some time.

 

I can't comment on the LSD as I have no experience with it.
There is always a discrepancy between "asking price" and "selling price". There is also a difference between what a dealer can get for a used car versus a private seller. Then there is the price difference in various parts of the country. Remember, you only need one buyer that is welling to pay your price for a car to sell. If 100 people tell you the price is too high, and the 101st person buys it, was your price too high?
That said, $19K is still a pretty good value retention for a 2-year old car.
Good luck with your decision.

 

In my mind the jury is in on the OEM LSD and it is fantastic for the price. But the bigger difference between the '03 and the '05/'06 is the revised gearing that makes the MCS much quicker from 0-30. If you look around you'll see quite a few of us who bought '02 and '03 MINIs upgrading for these very reasons.

And beyond all that the build quality has improved substanially on the '05 and MINI made quite a few small improvements to the interior to make it easier to live with.

 

go with the 05'


I have an 05 without the LSD and regret that I could not wait a few months longer.
While at the dragon someone was nice enough to let me drive their 05 with LSD. I was hammering the turns at the dragon like it was nobody's business. Oh I wish I had the LSD now. Turn off the DSC and just floor it out of turns, it is amazing

Anyway, If you are trying to be price concious I understand but for $550 for the factory one it is worth it! The Qaife (which as I understand is a little better than factory) is going to cost me around $2000 installed.....

 

Bite your tongue! Plenty of previous and current miata owners here!

I just went through this dilemma, and ended up with an '04IB/W. The price delta was about the same - ~$5K. In the end the IB made up my mind.

As Gabe said, the gearing (and LSD) are the biggest reasons to get the '05. If you've got the $$, I'd say get the '05 w/LSD and keep the Miata (gotta have top down days.)
It does seem that the used market is softening a bit (about time!) but still holding up well relative to other cars.
Good luck with the decision!

 

Current Miata owner here with a Mini that should be hitting the ground any day now.

 

I am getting ready to trade in my late 03 (october delivery) MCS/jcw for an 05 MCS with LSD. I have the Phantom grip LSD in the JCW car and it has performed flawless. It consistantly leaves duel black stripes at launch

Interested in a 03 JCW/premium/sport packages, leather, LSD, 42k smiles ?
I'll make you a deal

 

I've had 2 Miata's in the last 5 years.... a 91 one and a 99... Both FI'ed (Greddy for the 91 and AVO for the 99).... Anyways, I have sold both and looked for another car to play with.. I testdrove an MCS last month, and in a matter of 2 weeks, I bought my used one (didn't want to wait for the long wait here in CALI)....

It's an 03 Indi Blue with white top. Has all the options except for the NAVI .... so for 19K that deal you're getting is awesome.. TAKE IT TAKE IT.. specially that you still have about 32K left on the warranty so no biggie... If it's a dealer, maybe you can even pay to extend it (external warranty provider)....

Not sure where you are, but an MCS w/ that options and year here in CALI would still sell about 22-23K.... so for 19K, that is an AWESOME deal.. way below KBB ....

Good luck in your decision...

///Gil

 

Thanks for the replies guys. Well, I think it was answered for me. Someone else must have been keeping an eye on it, since it sold within hours of them updating the post online.

That's okay. I think I'm going to order exactly what I want in the fall.

MCS/Sport/LSD/Chrono.

That's it. No sunroof want to maximize headroom and don't need the extra weight up there. Plus, it'll give me a reason to keep the Miata.

I'm going to see if I can sit in a hardtop no sunroof cooper at the local auto-x this next weekend. Make sure I can get in there with a helmet.

The hard part will be which color. But that's another post.

Thanks again.

 

I can understand the logic of wanting either the LSD or the DSC but not both...

 

I can't understand not getting both - especially if you live in an area that has inclement weather.

 

Why 911?

First, the sport package is about more than DSC, but even so: You can shut it off. Right?

 

Finally found this thread again so I'll reply...

It seems to me that DSC would interfere with the proper operation of the LSD so you would need to leave it off to let the LSD do its work. Obviously, that would defeat the purpose of having DSC. Since the LSD is strictly mechanical (I am assuming...), it can't be disabled.

Maybe someone can explain the benefit of having both of these "on" all the time...

 

My somewhat educated view:

LSD - mechanically keeps front wheels from turning at significantly different rates
DSC - Uses yaw sensors, steering angle to determine where driver wants car to go. Uses ABS, throttle, to make car go that way.
ASC+T - Addresses wheel slip, usually by cutting throttle and/or applying brakes - apparently in straight line applications vs. the dynamic nature of DSC.

It's been said that DSC kicks in less with LSD (though it could really be the ASC+T that kicks in less) vs. A/DSC kicking in and not allowing the LSD to do its job. One would assume that BMW engineers are not doofuses, and the above statement is true.


DSC see:http://www.bmwworld.com/technology/dsc.htm
ASC+T see: http://users.cybercity.dk/~bbo2530/Private/traction.htm

 

That's it. No sunroof want to maximize headroom and don't need the extra weight up there. Plus, it'll give me a reason to keep the Miata. You will not be sorry

 

Rataha: Yup. That's the ticket.

911: Yup. . . I would only need to turn the DSC off. You're right, the LSD is mechanical and can't be turned off. I think any of those *SC systems are nice for day to day driving. (Should I say motoring since I'm talking about a Mini? )

The one caveat to that is that you need to be able to switch them off.

That's one thing about the Miata that I'll always enjoy: it's raw. There's no computer aided anything. And that's the point, if I'm on an auto-x or road course, I need to learn. Not the computer. The computer is plenty smart already.

But that rawness is part of the reason I'm shopping. Coilovers, intake and catback do not a good daily driver make. Ideally, I'll keep the Miata, but if not, the MCS offers the best of both worlds.

 

Yep, I've read in several places (thanks, Gabe!) that the DSC is specifically re-tuned for LSD-equipped MCS's. That's another item that keeps me lusting for an '05, or maybe an '06 with Recaro seats...

 

Tell me about it. The Recaros in my 89 GLI. . . what a difference.

I've done the reading and searching and haven't found anything definite yet. On the 06 Recaro package. Have you found anything else out Sideways?

Not that I need to know today. It's going to take me until September to figure out the color thing.

Edit: Could it also just be that the DSC probably isn't likely to kick in as often with a LSD equiped Mini because it's going to take more to spin both wheels? (Assuming that some part of the math used is based on detection of wheel spin.)

 

I have a rag top and the mini. Mini's for rain, rag tops for summer, and the rest of the time, it's whatever I feel like!

But having both is great. What about selling the Miata, and going with MCSC?

Matt

 

Would they be able to import the Recaro-equipped MINIs to the U.S.? The MINI has airbags in the seats and we have tons of lawyers. Unless the Recaros have built-in airbags, I'm not sure MINI would risk a lawsuit. I've seen more frivolous lawsuits win.

 

Since the LSD is purely mechanical it will operate more quickly and stop the wheel spin before the wheel spin detectors of the DSC or, more correctly, the ASC system are triggered.

The DSC goes to work when the MINI yaws(spins out, slides, etc.) and tries to help correct by the application of individual brakes, power reduction, or both. The ASC is the traction control part of the system that deals with too much wheel spin in the snow, rain, or at a stop light.

Whatever they do both the DSC or ASC need to be turned off on the track or Auto-X course. They also need to be turned off if you do not have an LSD and are trying to ascend a snowy hill as they are very good at what they do, which is preventing wheel spin. They will cut power and you will loose all of your momentum going up a hill until you stop forward progress. This is obviously the only reason why the engineers and lawyers allowed us the option of disabling the system.

 

I love my '03 IB/W SP/PP MC. I was close to trade it on an '05 MCS w/LSD. I don't mind the interior at all. I do wish I had a LSD though. $19k sounds like a lot to me. I currently have 35,989 miles on it! 11 miles til warranty expires. I have the 100k warranty but I'm still out to lunch on that.

 

The Recaros in question would have the side airbags. I think the ones you're thinking of are the Works seats which are manufactured by Sparco. Those don't have airbags and aren't officially available in the US via MINI.