2006 Now or 2007 and wait
#1
12-21-2006, 10:04 AM
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2006 Now or 2007 and wait
Hi all,
I'm new here hi all! Great place you got here, seems like a great resource for info/opinions.
Here's the question(s).
First, if anyone has ordered a new MINI (base) in the last couple of weeks out of the upstate NY area - how long is the wait?
I've been to a couple of dealers (Prestige in Northern NJ and Keeler in Albany) and they are deterring waiting (or at least that was my impression) one said that it'll be April and they will only be Automatics and S's are to follow in June.
I'm thinking they want to clear the '06s they have and might be stretching the truth a tad. On the '06s they have in stock they seem to want to get rid of them fast -- discounts are available.
Seems to me if they will not be getting new ones in untill then why discount the ones they have at this point. They have plenty of time to sell them.
Bottomline-- what is the actual wait time on a pretty standard MC.
My dream car is;
MC
mellow yellow, black roof/stripes
cold, prem, 16" w/performance, Yellow w/piano Blk, that's about it.
Oh, maybe a full tank of gas.
Any help will be appreciated.
Tks
I'm new here hi all! Great place you got here, seems like a great resource for info/opinions.
Here's the question(s).
First, if anyone has ordered a new MINI (base) in the last couple of weeks out of the upstate NY area - how long is the wait?
I've been to a couple of dealers (Prestige in Northern NJ and Keeler in Albany) and they are deterring waiting (or at least that was my impression) one said that it'll be April and they will only be Automatics and S's are to follow in June.
I'm thinking they want to clear the '06s they have and might be stretching the truth a tad. On the '06s they have in stock they seem to want to get rid of them fast -- discounts are available.
Seems to me if they will not be getting new ones in untill then why discount the ones they have at this point. They have plenty of time to sell them.
Bottomline-- what is the actual wait time on a pretty standard MC.
My dream car is;
MC
mellow yellow, black roof/stripes
cold, prem, 16" w/performance, Yellow w/piano Blk, that's about it.
Oh, maybe a full tank of gas.
Any help will be appreciated.
Tks
#2
12-21-2006, 10:14 AM
#3
12-21-2006, 10:22 AM
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From what i have heard its going to be Late march early April. I say go for the 06 but thats only because i think the 07's are so ugly. Plus i don't know how you feel about a car in its first production year, if you really want an 07 that bad and plan to keep it 5 plus years. I would say wait untill late 07 early 08.
#4
12-21-2006, 10:27 AM
From what i have heard its going to be Late march early April. I say go for the 06 but thats only because i think the 07's are so ugly. Plus i don't know how you feel about a car in its first production year, if you really want an 07 that bad and plan to keep it 5 plus years. I would say wait untill late 07 early 08.
i agree
#7
12-21-2006, 11:13 AM
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#8
12-21-2006, 11:24 AM
I just ordered and I was told Feb/Mar. My understanding is that it depends on the dealer's allocation. The more cars they are allocated per week, the more cars the dealer can order, the shorter the wait for a given dealer. Dealers who sell more cars get more allocation - its a vicious cycle.
#9
12-21-2006, 10:25 PM
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Thanks so much to eveyone. I'm still sea-sawing.
I think the suggestion that makes the most sense for me is to get the 06. My apprehension about getting a first year model (the engine especially) icombined with what looks like a 4 month wait for a Manual is a bit too much for me to deal with. Reliability is very important to me. I will only have one car. The last thing I need is for my car to spend time in the shop since the closest MiINI shops are both over 60 miles away -- even if everything is covered by the warrenty my time isn't and I'm self employed so time off costs me money.
I have to figure it out in the next few days. I have a dealer holding an '06 MC (base) HyperBlue/Silver Roof/hood stripe, Cold, Prem, Harmond sound, Anth. interior and headliner, Grey/Blkette standard seats -- it has the standard rotary dial 15" wheels which I don't like at all (no offense dial lovers). I prefered the Deltas but they don't have any to swap. He indicated he'd swap them out for the 15" Rocket wheels with all seasons. In the Upstate NY area, that is the best choice --- or better yet snow tires on a second pair of wheels. I'd like 16" 8 spokes with performance but when I add in upgrade and the cost of a set of winter tires I'm not sure the cost is worth it for me (around $1100).
I think my Yellow 07 mini will have to drive around in my dreams for now -- maybe I'll make that my second MINI if my business takes off.
I have always liked the hyperblue (sport and classy at the same time) -- and the silver top/stripe should sport it up some while still being classy.
i'll keep in touch --
Thanks again all.
I think the suggestion that makes the most sense for me is to get the 06. My apprehension about getting a first year model (the engine especially) icombined with what looks like a 4 month wait for a Manual is a bit too much for me to deal with. Reliability is very important to me. I will only have one car. The last thing I need is for my car to spend time in the shop since the closest MiINI shops are both over 60 miles away -- even if everything is covered by the warrenty my time isn't and I'm self employed so time off costs me money.
I have to figure it out in the next few days. I have a dealer holding an '06 MC (base) HyperBlue/Silver Roof/hood stripe, Cold, Prem, Harmond sound, Anth. interior and headliner, Grey/Blkette standard seats -- it has the standard rotary dial 15" wheels which I don't like at all (no offense dial lovers). I prefered the Deltas but they don't have any to swap. He indicated he'd swap them out for the 15" Rocket wheels with all seasons. In the Upstate NY area, that is the best choice --- or better yet snow tires on a second pair of wheels. I'd like 16" 8 spokes with performance but when I add in upgrade and the cost of a set of winter tires I'm not sure the cost is worth it for me (around $1100).
I think my Yellow 07 mini will have to drive around in my dreams for now -- maybe I'll make that my second MINI if my business takes off.
I have always liked the hyperblue (sport and classy at the same time) -- and the silver top/stripe should sport it up some while still being classy.
i'll keep in touch --
Thanks again all.
#10
12-22-2006, 12:22 AM
#12
12-22-2006, 04:24 AM
I hate to confuse you if you've found something you like - I just happened by my dealer (Flow - Winston Salem, NC) yesterday to pickup a couple of parts. A couple of observations / things I was told:
* I was SHOCKED by how much inventory they had. Flow sells about 40-50 MINIs per month (typically about 80% custom orders). They had about 60 on the lot. In contrast, when I ordered mine in August, they had 10-15 on the lot which is typical for them. My MA said they built a bunch of inventory to make it through the dry spell before '07s. He said he expects to see '07s in late Feb.
* They seem to have a reasonable flow of allocation - typical wait time back in the summer/fall was 6-8 weeks - they would normally have cars allocated for the next week or two of production that they could re-spec to order. Mine took longer due to the re-VIN fiasco. But I didn't ask when I could get an 07 if I ordered now...
* I don't think they had any yellow cars on the lot. But they had a LOT of cars... if you're curious, you could call Brad Ray at Flow. www.flowmini.com - they have their inventory on line there.
* I was SHOCKED by how much inventory they had. Flow sells about 40-50 MINIs per month (typically about 80% custom orders). They had about 60 on the lot. In contrast, when I ordered mine in August, they had 10-15 on the lot which is typical for them. My MA said they built a bunch of inventory to make it through the dry spell before '07s. He said he expects to see '07s in late Feb.
* They seem to have a reasonable flow of allocation - typical wait time back in the summer/fall was 6-8 weeks - they would normally have cars allocated for the next week or two of production that they could re-spec to order. Mine took longer due to the re-VIN fiasco. But I didn't ask when I could get an 07 if I ordered now...
* I don't think they had any yellow cars on the lot. But they had a LOT of cars... if you're curious, you could call Brad Ray at Flow. www.flowmini.com - they have their inventory on line there.
#14
12-22-2006, 12:34 PM
I too had a decision to make, 06 or wait on 07. I could have driven off with an 06, but decided to wait. Every article I have read on the 07 mini is very flattering on its performance, ride and build quality. All cite definite improvements in build quality. The engine has a better torque response, a few more hp and about 4 mpg more fuel efficient. 06 manual rated at 28/36, the new 07 is rated at 32/40. I opted for the 07 automatic (steptronic 6 speed auto) and even it is rated higher than the 06 manual (30/37). This purchase is 'my dream car' and I decided to wait on the improvements.
Here are a couple of good reviews of base model 07.
http://www.mini2.com/review25-mini2-...ni-cooper.html
and
http://www.carenthusiast.com/roadtes...rticle&id=1586
Here are a couple of good reviews of base model 07.
http://www.mini2.com/review25-mini2-...ni-cooper.html
and
http://www.carenthusiast.com/roadtes...rticle&id=1586
#15
12-22-2006, 12:41 PM
The 06 MC has already gone through six years of development, while the 07 MC is still in its first few months of production. that in itself should be enough to sway you to the "tried and true" benefit of getting the 06. And as there is no SC vs. TC in your desire, you shouldn't have to be concerned with the moding for hp potential.
#16
12-22-2006, 01:16 PM
I hate to confuse you if you've found something you like - I just happened by my dealer (Flow - Winston Salem, NC) yesterday to pickup a couple of parts. A couple of observations / things I was told:
* I was SHOCKED by how much inventory they had. Flow sells about 40-50 MINIs per month (typically about 80% custom orders). They had about 60 on the lot. In contrast, when I ordered mine in August, they had 10-15 on the lot which is typical for them. My MA said they built a bunch of inventory to make it through the dry spell before '07s. He said he expects to see '07s in late Feb.
* They seem to have a reasonable flow of allocation - typical wait time back in the summer/fall was 6-8 weeks - they would normally have cars allocated for the next week or two of production that they could re-spec to order. Mine took longer due to the re-VIN fiasco. But I didn't ask when I could get an 07 if I ordered now...
* I don't think they had any yellow cars on the lot. But they had a LOT of cars... if you're curious, you could call Brad Ray at Flow. www.flowmini.com - they have their inventory on line there.
* I was SHOCKED by how much inventory they had. Flow sells about 40-50 MINIs per month (typically about 80% custom orders). They had about 60 on the lot. In contrast, when I ordered mine in August, they had 10-15 on the lot which is typical for them. My MA said they built a bunch of inventory to make it through the dry spell before '07s. He said he expects to see '07s in late Feb.
* They seem to have a reasonable flow of allocation - typical wait time back in the summer/fall was 6-8 weeks - they would normally have cars allocated for the next week or two of production that they could re-spec to order. Mine took longer due to the re-VIN fiasco. But I didn't ask when I could get an 07 if I ordered now...
* I don't think they had any yellow cars on the lot. But they had a LOT of cars... if you're curious, you could call Brad Ray at Flow. www.flowmini.com - they have their inventory on line there.
#17
12-22-2006, 03:37 PM
It is true there are 6 years of production behind the current 06 mini, but that doesn't mean that the 07 is starting from scratch either. Many of the considerations that go into reliability will 'carry over'. There are several fators that go into reliability. Simply they are:
1) Reliability of the piece parts, yes reliability engineers can calculate failure rates based on all the piece part failure rates.
2) Design - How well are all those piece parts integrated into a design? Will all the piece parts work together as intended?
3) Manufacturing - There are several considerations here from facilities utiilization, employee training, quality control, process control, etc. the list goes on.
All these same considerations also apply at vendors who supply parts. As far as overall reliabiilty goes the 07 cooper is new, but even being new it shares some heritage in its parts with the old cooper. The transmission is the Getrag or Aisin (manual or auto) and pretty much the same except for gear ratios tweaked to match the engine(s). I suspect there are other similiarities when one looks at the piece parts. The design of all those piece parts is new, however, even there, some heritage to the old mini exists if only from a design experience standpoint of the engineering staff in working with the mini (the designers do learn from their mistakes and make design improvements). Item three is where I'd expect the most 'carry over'. One must remember that the Oxford plant was built new for mini in the late 90s. All the aspects that go into that plant functioning were new. Now there is 6 years of heritage in that plant. All the considerations in item three above that go into effective manufacturing are not tossed out and started over because the model year changes. The staff have that much more experience now in working with the facilites and producing Mini than they did when the first gen started rolling of the assembly line. If a hypothetical manufacturer were to start building the first gen mini at a new plant and a choice was to be made of first gen from a new plant and manufacturer or the second gen from the Oxford plant one would have to choose the second gen from the Oxford plant, no question! You'd always take a new part from an experience manufacturer over an old one from somebody just starting.
This is a very simplistic view of reliabitiy (not a reliability engineer, although I am an engineer) and not all encompassing, but I wanted to make a point. It seems the starter of this thread is making his decision solely on the basis of reliability or percieved lack therof. Take the engine, yes it is a new engine, but is it that much less reliable than the current to cause me to not buy the car? I'm not sure I'd make that judgement. Look at the manufacturer, the facilities they are made in, the engineering heritage behind the engine and you might come to a different conclusion.
Unfortunately this is reliabiilty and, no pun intended, it can be a crap shoot. You can buy the most reliable model on the planet and have it fail, and someone will, which is why we have warranties and lemon laws etc. Reliabilty overall 06 vs. 07? Maybe the early nod to 06, but I don't think the difference is as large as may be percieved, if there at all. And I expect over time the 07 and beyond to surpass the 06.
Fortunately for the starter of this thread, whatever his final decision, he will be the proud owner of a New Cooper, which is cause enough for celebration.
Congrats!!
1) Reliability of the piece parts, yes reliability engineers can calculate failure rates based on all the piece part failure rates.
2) Design - How well are all those piece parts integrated into a design? Will all the piece parts work together as intended?
3) Manufacturing - There are several considerations here from facilities utiilization, employee training, quality control, process control, etc. the list goes on.
All these same considerations also apply at vendors who supply parts. As far as overall reliabiilty goes the 07 cooper is new, but even being new it shares some heritage in its parts with the old cooper. The transmission is the Getrag or Aisin (manual or auto) and pretty much the same except for gear ratios tweaked to match the engine(s). I suspect there are other similiarities when one looks at the piece parts. The design of all those piece parts is new, however, even there, some heritage to the old mini exists if only from a design experience standpoint of the engineering staff in working with the mini (the designers do learn from their mistakes and make design improvements). Item three is where I'd expect the most 'carry over'. One must remember that the Oxford plant was built new for mini in the late 90s. All the aspects that go into that plant functioning were new. Now there is 6 years of heritage in that plant. All the considerations in item three above that go into effective manufacturing are not tossed out and started over because the model year changes. The staff have that much more experience now in working with the facilites and producing Mini than they did when the first gen started rolling of the assembly line. If a hypothetical manufacturer were to start building the first gen mini at a new plant and a choice was to be made of first gen from a new plant and manufacturer or the second gen from the Oxford plant one would have to choose the second gen from the Oxford plant, no question! You'd always take a new part from an experience manufacturer over an old one from somebody just starting.
This is a very simplistic view of reliabitiy (not a reliability engineer, although I am an engineer) and not all encompassing, but I wanted to make a point. It seems the starter of this thread is making his decision solely on the basis of reliability or percieved lack therof. Take the engine, yes it is a new engine, but is it that much less reliable than the current to cause me to not buy the car? I'm not sure I'd make that judgement. Look at the manufacturer, the facilities they are made in, the engineering heritage behind the engine and you might come to a different conclusion.
Unfortunately this is reliabiilty and, no pun intended, it can be a crap shoot. You can buy the most reliable model on the planet and have it fail, and someone will, which is why we have warranties and lemon laws etc. Reliabilty overall 06 vs. 07? Maybe the early nod to 06, but I don't think the difference is as large as may be percieved, if there at all. And I expect over time the 07 and beyond to surpass the 06.
Fortunately for the starter of this thread, whatever his final decision, he will be the proud owner of a New Cooper, which is cause enough for celebration.
Congrats!!
#18
12-23-2006, 08:14 PM
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I was told that the manual transmission was not available for the Cooper until the March builds. I think there is no way the car will have any major faults in this first production year, and will only improve with time. I'm willing to wait, and the dealers have the whole world to sell off the remaining 06's to.
#20
12-30-2006, 08:59 PM
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Hi all,
I have made my decision. Actually over the last week or so I had made my decision numerous times.
Yesterday I had finally decided to get the 06. After an some aggro with the dealer I thought to myself I should get what I want and take the chance on a first year car. I ordered a Mellow Yellow today.
All the points about waiting 'till "the bugs are out" were very helpful and in the end I just decided life is too short to live in fear of possible (build/mechanical) issues that may exist or may not. I decided all the speculation is just that, speculation (most on the negative side.)
As far as discussions I've read in these forums regarding the 06 vs 07 model-wise -- well, everyone has their opinion and everyone is entitled to it. I'm sure if there were forums when the '58 Chevy came out or the 280Z, simular feelings would have been expressed about bastardizing their classic prior models. I believe that if the 02-06 model is truely a classic it will always be -- god bless anyone who has one -- enjoy it in great health! If the 07 is seen as a deluted version then so be it. I have had no control over the designer's decisions. I tend to feel that there are technical advances to the 07 model that wins over the idea of keeping every detail the same. Let's face it if you have a 57 chevy or a 260Z or a 02-06 MINI then you are a very lucky person. If I had the choice and a 57 Chevy was available as a new car in 07 with all the current technical advances I would be looking at that rather than the MINI 07 -- so I feel -- life is change and like it or not it's gonna happen.
I was getting discouraged with the tone of some of the messages -- almost militant -- YIKES! Maybe I'm not MINIfied enough yet but it seems to me -- what is the point of trying to convince someone that a model designed over 5 years ago is better than one designed today. In a year when there are no new 06s to be had will the argument be to buy a used older model rather than the 08 model? Seems unrealistic. Maybe the older model is a beautiful example of coehisive design and maybe once I start my collection of classic autos I'll get one but I am buying a car -- one that I think is a nice progression from the existing design and honestly, as a MINI novice who loved the Mini as a kid, if I never saw an older model I would like the current one just as much! In the end i really like the idea that there is a forum like this to discuss the MINIs whatever build. I hope the differences do not split the group up as it's nice to have an inclusive place to check in with.
Thanks everyone for helping me (whichever way you lean)
Keep it Mellow! Jim
I have made my decision. Actually over the last week or so I had made my decision numerous times.
Yesterday I had finally decided to get the 06. After an some aggro with the dealer I thought to myself I should get what I want and take the chance on a first year car. I ordered a Mellow Yellow today.
All the points about waiting 'till "the bugs are out" were very helpful and in the end I just decided life is too short to live in fear of possible (build/mechanical) issues that may exist or may not. I decided all the speculation is just that, speculation (most on the negative side.)
As far as discussions I've read in these forums regarding the 06 vs 07 model-wise -- well, everyone has their opinion and everyone is entitled to it. I'm sure if there were forums when the '58 Chevy came out or the 280Z, simular feelings would have been expressed about bastardizing their classic prior models. I believe that if the 02-06 model is truely a classic it will always be -- god bless anyone who has one -- enjoy it in great health! If the 07 is seen as a deluted version then so be it. I have had no control over the designer's decisions. I tend to feel that there are technical advances to the 07 model that wins over the idea of keeping every detail the same. Let's face it if you have a 57 chevy or a 260Z or a 02-06 MINI then you are a very lucky person. If I had the choice and a 57 Chevy was available as a new car in 07 with all the current technical advances I would be looking at that rather than the MINI 07 -- so I feel -- life is change and like it or not it's gonna happen.
I was getting discouraged with the tone of some of the messages -- almost militant -- YIKES! Maybe I'm not MINIfied enough yet but it seems to me -- what is the point of trying to convince someone that a model designed over 5 years ago is better than one designed today. In a year when there are no new 06s to be had will the argument be to buy a used older model rather than the 08 model? Seems unrealistic. Maybe the older model is a beautiful example of coehisive design and maybe once I start my collection of classic autos I'll get one but I am buying a car -- one that I think is a nice progression from the existing design and honestly, as a MINI novice who loved the Mini as a kid, if I never saw an older model I would like the current one just as much! In the end i really like the idea that there is a forum like this to discuss the MINIs whatever build. I hope the differences do not split the group up as it's nice to have an inclusive place to check in with.
Thanks everyone for helping me (whichever way you lean)
Keep it Mellow! Jim
#21
12-30-2006, 09:17 PM
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I'm so glad you could get a yellow Mini. I have a 02 Liquid Yellow/White top which has been discontinued. You'll certainly get noticed in a brighter Mini!! (and by the way, stay involved with NAM...and you WILL become a MINI-addict! I promice!) Post pics when you recieve your baby. Congrats on ordering your dream Mini and Happy and safe Motoring!
#23
12-31-2006, 06:28 AM
Sounds like a great choice.
I have to say that NAM was a great discovery and a supportive online community is always part of the research I do when I consider a car. My experience here in the past few weeks has been good except for the R56 naysayers which have been a tremendous turn-off. I don't mean criticizing the design, that's fine - an interesting discussion. Others predicting the downfall of the marque, warning newbies off the new model, demonizing bmw - this stuff I don't get. I understand owners of the previous model being devoted to it, but I don't understand the need to project these other opinions to the detriment of the community. When I first started reading here I came to the understanding that it was all about the motoring, not the particulars of the cars. Everybody seemed to enjoy the differences and personalization. I never saw anybody condemn the MC as not having the "spirit" because it was not as fast as an MCS! Or the convertible being illegitimate because there was never an original cooper convertible. I'm hoping these R56 bashers are just a small vocal minority out of step with the spirit of the community. If not, then eventually I and other newbies will most certainly walk. I want to enjoy my car in the company of others interested in the same - if I go out to a motoring club outing only to be confronted by some guy who can't restrain himself from telling me how he thinks my R56 is not as good as his mini, blah, blah, blah... what fun is that? Do you think I'm going to go back?
So what will it be? R56 motoring clubs, R56 online communities (R50s and R53s welcome of course, original minis too). When I came here NAM gave me the impression that they decided to be open to the evolution of the car and not limit it to the previous model. We'll see if the community can live up to that.
I have to say that NAM was a great discovery and a supportive online community is always part of the research I do when I consider a car. My experience here in the past few weeks has been good except for the R56 naysayers which have been a tremendous turn-off. I don't mean criticizing the design, that's fine - an interesting discussion. Others predicting the downfall of the marque, warning newbies off the new model, demonizing bmw - this stuff I don't get. I understand owners of the previous model being devoted to it, but I don't understand the need to project these other opinions to the detriment of the community. When I first started reading here I came to the understanding that it was all about the motoring, not the particulars of the cars. Everybody seemed to enjoy the differences and personalization. I never saw anybody condemn the MC as not having the "spirit" because it was not as fast as an MCS! Or the convertible being illegitimate because there was never an original cooper convertible. I'm hoping these R56 bashers are just a small vocal minority out of step with the spirit of the community. If not, then eventually I and other newbies will most certainly walk. I want to enjoy my car in the company of others interested in the same - if I go out to a motoring club outing only to be confronted by some guy who can't restrain himself from telling me how he thinks my R56 is not as good as his mini, blah, blah, blah... what fun is that? Do you think I'm going to go back?
So what will it be? R56 motoring clubs, R56 online communities (R50s and R53s welcome of course, original minis too). When I came here NAM gave me the impression that they decided to be open to the evolution of the car and not limit it to the previous model. We'll see if the community can live up to that.
#24
12-31-2006, 06:44 AM
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Greg, I think those are good points and coming to Minis from VW (where VWVortex is a great, but sometimes passionate on-line community), I agree especially that a strong site like NAM makes a lot of difference in the ownership experience these days.
Like any on-line community, it is what we make of it. I think if we were talking Toyotas or Hondas, no one would care whether we were going from one generation to another, but with these cars (like over in VW) there is a level of passion and attachment that seems to lead to intense disagreement and fury over headlight placement or the use of a particular door-latching mechanism from one generation to another.
Debates are part of what makes these forums interesting, but you are right that there has to be a fundamental view that whatever "R number" a person is driving - they are still driving a Mini - and that's pretty cool!
Like any on-line community, it is what we make of it. I think if we were talking Toyotas or Hondas, no one would care whether we were going from one generation to another, but with these cars (like over in VW) there is a level of passion and attachment that seems to lead to intense disagreement and fury over headlight placement or the use of a particular door-latching mechanism from one generation to another.
Debates are part of what makes these forums interesting, but you are right that there has to be a fundamental view that whatever "R number" a person is driving - they are still driving a Mini - and that's pretty cool!
#25
12-31-2006, 06:54 AM
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