Justa bonnet scoop
#1
08-20-2012, 10:53 AM
Justa bonnet scoop
Am toying with the idea of installing an air scoop in the center of the bonnet at the back right over the air box and feeding the scoop into the top of the airbox. This would bypass the MAF sensor so I'm not sure of the effect on performance.
I could just install a CAI but anybody can do that and I have this neat little scoop from the 60s I salvaged from a sprint car that would look great. Any thoughts from the membership?
I could just install a CAI but anybody can do that and I have this neat little scoop from the 60s I salvaged from a sprint car that would look great. Any thoughts from the membership?
#2
08-20-2012, 11:21 AM
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08-20-2012, 11:33 AM
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Since I've installed a CAI on my straight Cooper... unless I'm missing something, the stock air box is completely closed - it gathers air from up near the driver's side headlight. So any hood scoop wouldn't really gain you anything.
It seems to me that if you wanted any cold air via the hood scoop you would have to do a CAI. Before I comment at all on the aesthetics, can you post up a pic of the hood scoop?
It seems to me that if you wanted any cold air via the hood scoop you would have to do a CAI. Before I comment at all on the aesthetics, can you post up a pic of the hood scoop?
#4
08-20-2012, 12:08 PM
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ScottyC, Although the installed scoop may "look great", you may find that it causes major problems. You have already stated that it will bypass the MAF sensor. If that isn't enough, do you have any information regarding air flow (pressure) at the point you want to mount the scoop? It would be disappointing to find that it didn't feed the air at highway speeds that you imagine.
Am I right in assuming that the scoop is something that was used on a carburetted engine?
Am I right in assuming that the scoop is something that was used on a carburetted engine?
#6
08-21-2012, 11:39 AM
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And now, to be a good forum member...
ScottyC:
A few things to consider based on my (limited) knowledge:
1. The MINI is obviously a very small car with an engine and transmission transversely (sideways) mounted in a tiny space in the front of the car. I lot of heat is concentrated in this area. For this reason the OEM intake is a closed system that draws air via a tube originating front behind the grill to get the coolest available air and then delivers it to a filter in the airbox. It makes sure the air that is going to the engine is as clean as possible. (It also goes through a "silencer", the reason for this is about dogs which I will mention later.) The temperature of the intake air is important because it has a direct relation to the density of the air that greatly affects the way an engine performs overall.
2. The MAF sensor is after the filter box and is a precision ($) meter that measures the air demand as pulled in by the engine, sending a signal to the ECU (the main computer brain) so it can regulate the fuel flow to the engine (among other things, i.e. emissions). This permits it (along with the ignition system) to efficiently produce power to propel the car via the basic internal combustion design of the engine. Because of the sophisticated nature of the digital electronics in modern automobiles, it is very difficult to alter one part of the system without causing major havoc in the adjunct systems (unlike the simple cars of the 60's...). Therefore, modifying anything after this meter is a very involved undertaking including, but not limited to reprogramming the computer settings.
3. Most mainstream cars, like what BMW wishes the MINI to be so that they can make a lot of money (or should I say, more money), are designed to cater to mostly a market that likes quiet, smooth, relaxing cars. Also, much of what goes into a modern engine's design is focused toward clean air and fuel efficiency as regulated by most governments and our desire (hopefully) to prolong the life of our planet. Because of this, some of the overall "across the power band" delivery of performance (sportiness/personality) is sacrificed. That is why a lot of MINI enthusiasts have modified the intake system (pre-MAF) and the exhaust (post O2 sensor) to promote a less restricted in/out free flow. Does this create any serious amount of gain in power? No, unfortunately very little, but it helps to deliver that power over a broader range, makes it more available from a stand still (especially when coupled to a modified accelerator pedal map ramp program), and permits a sportier (fun) feel to the car's personality. Think of these modifications (and here's the dog part...) as turning the MINI back into a gutsy little English bulldog (as it once was...) from the Bavarian poodle the bean counters at Beamer created.
4. The before mentioned is all about "flow", but it can also be about intake temperature. Our engines are somewhat basic in the OEM NA Straight Cooper, just like most regular cars. These modern engine's parameters for adjustment are very small because of all the digital aspects. The ECU makes sure of that and in turn it helps to keep it running for many miles. (Hopefully.) They are set to get a healthy amount of performance, burn cleanly, and get good gas mileage from the engine. The other Cooper's engines are very similar but are modified to withstand turbochargers (and previously superchargers) to force the engine to put out increased power that make these cars significantly quicker and faster. Their range for adjustment is much broader because of the potential power increase provided with these modifications. But at the same time, this push for power reduces fuel economy, shortens mechanical part wear life ($) proportionally, and creates a lot more heat in that little engine compartment I mentioned earlier. That is why so many "S" enthusiasts are interested in heat reduction and dissipation. This is why they are into intercoolers, scoops, and other things. This is not something Straight Cooper owners are generally too concerned about.
5. My bottom line? Aesthetics play a major role in our cars, as well as the mechanicals. That is what makes MINIs so great, they can be individualized in so many different ways. If you like the way the scoop looks on your car, then put it on, but I recommend cosmetically. Remember that art is in the eyes of the beholder, so don't worry about what others think, do your own thing. But keep in mind the bonnet is probably the single most expensive body part on your car, so make sure your decision takes into consideration the long term. We're only around for a relatively short time, and it can be all be gone tomorrow in an instant, so live it up now while you still can and enjoy your MINI.
I hope this very wordy post helps you.
A few things to consider based on my (limited) knowledge:
1. The MINI is obviously a very small car with an engine and transmission transversely (sideways) mounted in a tiny space in the front of the car. I lot of heat is concentrated in this area. For this reason the OEM intake is a closed system that draws air via a tube originating front behind the grill to get the coolest available air and then delivers it to a filter in the airbox. It makes sure the air that is going to the engine is as clean as possible. (It also goes through a "silencer", the reason for this is about dogs which I will mention later.) The temperature of the intake air is important because it has a direct relation to the density of the air that greatly affects the way an engine performs overall.
2. The MAF sensor is after the filter box and is a precision ($) meter that measures the air demand as pulled in by the engine, sending a signal to the ECU (the main computer brain) so it can regulate the fuel flow to the engine (among other things, i.e. emissions). This permits it (along with the ignition system) to efficiently produce power to propel the car via the basic internal combustion design of the engine. Because of the sophisticated nature of the digital electronics in modern automobiles, it is very difficult to alter one part of the system without causing major havoc in the adjunct systems (unlike the simple cars of the 60's...). Therefore, modifying anything after this meter is a very involved undertaking including, but not limited to reprogramming the computer settings.
3. Most mainstream cars, like what BMW wishes the MINI to be so that they can make a lot of money (or should I say, more money), are designed to cater to mostly a market that likes quiet, smooth, relaxing cars. Also, much of what goes into a modern engine's design is focused toward clean air and fuel efficiency as regulated by most governments and our desire (hopefully) to prolong the life of our planet. Because of this, some of the overall "across the power band" delivery of performance (sportiness/personality) is sacrificed. That is why a lot of MINI enthusiasts have modified the intake system (pre-MAF) and the exhaust (post O2 sensor) to promote a less restricted in/out free flow. Does this create any serious amount of gain in power? No, unfortunately very little, but it helps to deliver that power over a broader range, makes it more available from a stand still (especially when coupled to a modified accelerator pedal map ramp program), and permits a sportier (fun) feel to the car's personality. Think of these modifications (and here's the dog part...) as turning the MINI back into a gutsy little English bulldog (as it once was...) from the Bavarian poodle the bean counters at Beamer created.
4. The before mentioned is all about "flow", but it can also be about intake temperature. Our engines are somewhat basic in the OEM NA Straight Cooper, just like most regular cars. These modern engine's parameters for adjustment are very small because of all the digital aspects. The ECU makes sure of that and in turn it helps to keep it running for many miles. (Hopefully.) They are set to get a healthy amount of performance, burn cleanly, and get good gas mileage from the engine. The other Cooper's engines are very similar but are modified to withstand turbochargers (and previously superchargers) to force the engine to put out increased power that make these cars significantly quicker and faster. Their range for adjustment is much broader because of the potential power increase provided with these modifications. But at the same time, this push for power reduces fuel economy, shortens mechanical part wear life ($) proportionally, and creates a lot more heat in that little engine compartment I mentioned earlier. That is why so many "S" enthusiasts are interested in heat reduction and dissipation. This is why they are into intercoolers, scoops, and other things. This is not something Straight Cooper owners are generally too concerned about.
5. My bottom line? Aesthetics play a major role in our cars, as well as the mechanicals. That is what makes MINIs so great, they can be individualized in so many different ways. If you like the way the scoop looks on your car, then put it on, but I recommend cosmetically. Remember that art is in the eyes of the beholder, so don't worry about what others think, do your own thing. But keep in mind the bonnet is probably the single most expensive body part on your car, so make sure your decision takes into consideration the long term. We're only around for a relatively short time, and it can be all be gone tomorrow in an instant, so live it up now while you still can and enjoy your MINI.
I hope this very wordy post helps you.
Last edited by S&CLC; 08-21-2012 at 03:33 PM. Reason: correction
#7
08-21-2012, 01:44 PM
ScottyC:
A few things to consider based on my (limited) knowledge:
1. The MINI is obviously a very small car with an engine and transmission transversely (sideways) mounted in a tiny space in the front of the car. I lot of heat is concentrated in this area. For this reason the OEM intake is a closed system that draws air via a tube originating front behind the grill to get the coolest available air and then delivers it to a filter in the airbox. It makes sure the air that is going to the engine is as clean as possible. (It also goes through a "silencer", the reason for this is about dogs which I will mention later.) The temperature of the intake air is important because it has a direct relation to the density of the air that greatly affects the way an engine performs overall.
2. The MAF sensor is after the filter box and is a precision ($) meter that measures the air demand as pulled in by the engine, sending a signal to the ECU (the main computer brain) so it can regulate the fuel flow to the engine (among other things, i.e. emissions). This permits it (along with the ignition system) to efficiently produce power to propel the car via the basic internal combustion design of the engine. Because of the sophisticated nature of the digital electronics in modern automobiles, it is very difficult to alter one part of the system without causing major havoc in the adjunct systems (unlike the simple cars of the 60's...). Therefore, modifying anything after this meter is a very involved undertaking including, but not limited to reprogramming the computer settings.
3. Most mainstream cars, like what BMW wishes the MINI to be so that they can make a lot of money (or should I say, more money), are designed to cater to mostly a market that likes quiet, smooth, relaxing cars. Also, much of what goes into a modern engine's design is focused toward clean air and fuel efficiency as regulated by most governments and our desire (hopefully) to prolong the life of our planet. Because of this, some of the overall "across the power band" delivery of performance (sportiness/personality) is sacrificed. That is why a lot of MINI enthusiasts have modified the intake system (pre-MAF) and the exhaust (post O2 sensor) to promote a less restricted in/out free flow. Does this create any serious amount of gain in power? No, unfortunately very little, but it helps to deliver that power over a broader range, makes it more available from a stand still (especially when coupled to a modified accelerator pedal map ramp program), and permits a sportier (fun) feel to the car's personality. Think of these modifications (and here's the dog part...) as turning the MINI back into a gutsy little English bulldog (as it once was...) from the Bavarian poodle the bean counters at Beamer created.
4. The before mentioned is all about "flow", but it can also about intake temperature. Our engines are somewhat basic in the OEM NA Straight Cooper, just like most regular cars. These modern engine's parameters for adjustment are very small because of all the digital aspects. The ECU makes sure of that and in turn it helps to keep it running for many miles. (Hopefully.) They are set to get a healthy amount of performance, burn cleanly, and get good gas mileage from the engine. The other Cooper's engines are very similar but are modified to withstand turbochargers (and previously superchargers) to force the engine to put out increased power that make these cars significantly quicker and faster. Their range for adjustment is much broader because of the potential power increase provided with these modifications. But at the same time, this push for power reduces fuel economy, shortens mechanical part wear life ($) proportionally, and creates a lot more heat in that little engine compartment I mentioned earlier. That is why so many "S" enthusiasts are interested in heat reduction and dissipation. This is why they are into intercoolers, scoops, and other things. This is not something Straight Cooper owners are generally too concerned about.
5. My bottom line? Aesthetics play a major role in our cars, as well as the mechanicals. That is what makes MINIs so great, they can be individualized in so many different ways. If you like the way the scoop looks on your car, then put it on, but I recommend cosmetically. Remember that art is in the eyes of the beholder, so don't worry about what others think, do your own thing. But keep in mind the bonnet is probably the single most expensive body part on your car, so make sure your decision takes into consideration the long term. We're only around for a relatively short time, and it can be all be gone tomorrow in an instant, so live it up now while you still can and enjoy your MINI.
I hope this very wordy post helps you.
A few things to consider based on my (limited) knowledge:
1. The MINI is obviously a very small car with an engine and transmission transversely (sideways) mounted in a tiny space in the front of the car. I lot of heat is concentrated in this area. For this reason the OEM intake is a closed system that draws air via a tube originating front behind the grill to get the coolest available air and then delivers it to a filter in the airbox. It makes sure the air that is going to the engine is as clean as possible. (It also goes through a "silencer", the reason for this is about dogs which I will mention later.) The temperature of the intake air is important because it has a direct relation to the density of the air that greatly affects the way an engine performs overall.
2. The MAF sensor is after the filter box and is a precision ($) meter that measures the air demand as pulled in by the engine, sending a signal to the ECU (the main computer brain) so it can regulate the fuel flow to the engine (among other things, i.e. emissions). This permits it (along with the ignition system) to efficiently produce power to propel the car via the basic internal combustion design of the engine. Because of the sophisticated nature of the digital electronics in modern automobiles, it is very difficult to alter one part of the system without causing major havoc in the adjunct systems (unlike the simple cars of the 60's...). Therefore, modifying anything after this meter is a very involved undertaking including, but not limited to reprogramming the computer settings.
3. Most mainstream cars, like what BMW wishes the MINI to be so that they can make a lot of money (or should I say, more money), are designed to cater to mostly a market that likes quiet, smooth, relaxing cars. Also, much of what goes into a modern engine's design is focused toward clean air and fuel efficiency as regulated by most governments and our desire (hopefully) to prolong the life of our planet. Because of this, some of the overall "across the power band" delivery of performance (sportiness/personality) is sacrificed. That is why a lot of MINI enthusiasts have modified the intake system (pre-MAF) and the exhaust (post O2 sensor) to promote a less restricted in/out free flow. Does this create any serious amount of gain in power? No, unfortunately very little, but it helps to deliver that power over a broader range, makes it more available from a stand still (especially when coupled to a modified accelerator pedal map ramp program), and permits a sportier (fun) feel to the car's personality. Think of these modifications (and here's the dog part...) as turning the MINI back into a gutsy little English bulldog (as it once was...) from the Bavarian poodle the bean counters at Beamer created.
4. The before mentioned is all about "flow", but it can also about intake temperature. Our engines are somewhat basic in the OEM NA Straight Cooper, just like most regular cars. These modern engine's parameters for adjustment are very small because of all the digital aspects. The ECU makes sure of that and in turn it helps to keep it running for many miles. (Hopefully.) They are set to get a healthy amount of performance, burn cleanly, and get good gas mileage from the engine. The other Cooper's engines are very similar but are modified to withstand turbochargers (and previously superchargers) to force the engine to put out increased power that make these cars significantly quicker and faster. Their range for adjustment is much broader because of the potential power increase provided with these modifications. But at the same time, this push for power reduces fuel economy, shortens mechanical part wear life ($) proportionally, and creates a lot more heat in that little engine compartment I mentioned earlier. That is why so many "S" enthusiasts are interested in heat reduction and dissipation. This is why they are into intercoolers, scoops, and other things. This is not something Straight Cooper owners are generally too concerned about.
5. My bottom line? Aesthetics play a major role in our cars, as well as the mechanicals. That is what makes MINIs so great, they can be individualized in so many different ways. If you like the way the scoop looks on your car, then put it on, but I recommend cosmetically. Remember that art is in the eyes of the beholder, so don't worry about what others think, do your own thing. But keep in mind the bonnet is probably the single most expensive body part on your car, so make sure your decision takes into consideration the long term. We're only around for a relatively short time, and it can be all be gone tomorrow in an instant, so live it up now while you still can and enjoy your MINI.
I hope this very wordy post helps you.
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#8
08-21-2012, 07:03 PM
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Well said, S&CLC. 
There are only a few things that visually separate an S from a Straight Cooper - the grille, hood scoop, gas cap, roof spoiler and the S in the badging. I like modding my Cooper, but I don't want it to be an S and I find the hood scoop to be the most recognizable feature of an S. So I guess any form of a hood scoop doesn't seem right for a Cooper, but I am curious what you're cooking up.
I would worry about some of S&CLC's comments since the integrity of the engine supersedes everything.
There are only a few things that visually separate an S from a Straight Cooper - the grille, hood scoop, gas cap, roof spoiler and the S in the badging. I like modding my Cooper, but I don't want it to be an S and I find the hood scoop to be the most recognizable feature of an S. So I guess any form of a hood scoop doesn't seem right for a Cooper, but I am curious what you're cooking up.I would worry about some of S&CLC's comments since the integrity of the engine supersedes everything.
#9
08-22-2012, 06:15 AM
S&CLC, your reply is extremely helpful and much appreciated.
I had calculated the intake size and the geometry for the intake conduit that would have been ported into the top of the airbox, and had derived the volume of air I could expect to pass into the air box but the question of how the computer would react with bypassing the MAF was the sticking point.
I had simplified things down to if the stock intake air flow was unchanged then the fuel mixture would stay the same so introducing more air into the intake after the MAF would increase the efficiency of the "bang" in the cylinder so boost the power out with same amount of gas.
I did not factor in the effect of the engine feedback to the computer...this is why I'm not an automotive design engineer...
Thanks again
I had calculated the intake size and the geometry for the intake conduit that would have been ported into the top of the airbox, and had derived the volume of air I could expect to pass into the air box but the question of how the computer would react with bypassing the MAF was the sticking point.
I had simplified things down to if the stock intake air flow was unchanged then the fuel mixture would stay the same so introducing more air into the intake after the MAF would increase the efficiency of the "bang" in the cylinder so boost the power out with same amount of gas.
I did not factor in the effect of the engine feedback to the computer...this is why I'm not an automotive design engineer...
Thanks again
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