So I went to my second DE at Limerock Park up in CT this past Monday with SCDA (www.scda1.com). This was my second DE, second time at the same track with the same club. Here's my experience. Beautiful day, about 55 degrees F, sunny in the morning, overcast by the end of the day. Perfect driving weather!

Background

The first time I went back in April I had to use my wife's car (06 MCS, CAI, ssr comps + goodyear f1's) because I had a major suspension problem (i.e. shaft snapped on me) with the TEIN coilovers and IE camber plate combo on my 'tastefully' modded 04 MCS.

Here's a list of relevant mods on my 04 MCS:

Helix 15% pulley
Myminiparts.com ITG intake
UUC exhaust
Bilstein PSS9 coilovers set to 3/4 front/rear with 9 being softest
Denso IK22
GIAC ECU (15%, no injector file)
SSR comps 16 x 7
Toyo Ra1 r-compounds (34.5 psi)
Powerslot Rotors
Ferodo DS2500 pads front and rear
ATE Super Blue brake fluid
SS lines
Tyrolsport Brass brake bushings
Helix 19mm RSB (middle setting)
Helix short shifter
Sparco Milano Prestige seats (driver and passenger)
Schroth 4-point harness (driver and passenger)
Screamin Demon coilpack
eBay oil catch can
Boost & Oil Pressure gauges
Redline 5W-30 engine oil
Redline MTL tranny oil
Gatorback 060537 belt
Engine Damper ()

I've been modding my car with the intention of running on the track for over three years now. I was never really interested in going to auto-x. Somehow the track just beckoned me more.

This was my second time in the novice group and I was lucky enough to have the same instructor show up again at this DE. The single biggest lesson I learned my first time out was when I got to ride as a passenger in his slightly modded Sti. When he hit the brakes, I felt like I was going to go through the windshield. If he wasn't on the brakes, he was turning and flooring the gas. In retrospect I was way to easy on the brakes before going out on the instructor session. On my last session, I was a bit more agressive, but at that point the stock brakes were toast and the Goodyear F1's were starting to squeal like crazy.

Track day August-20-2007

So this second time around I was really, really excited about taking my car (finally) after pretty much having this goal set in the back of my mind this entire time. All the modding and testing and swapping in and out of parts had finally culiminated in this glorious moment where I could finally experience the fruits of all my hard work.

Of course I couldn't sleep a wink the night before. After my first track event I was telling anybody who would listen that it was hands down the most fun thing I've ever done in my life. Period.

Got up at 5am, scrambled to see if I had forgotten any important tools, and then went along my way. Took only about an hour and forty minutes to get up to Limerock from Tarrytown and promptly filled up with 93 and drove to the paddock.

There's something really awesome about driving into the paddock and seeing all these tricked out cars getting ready. There were tons of porsches (of course), a fleet of Lotuses from the same club (one of them got WRECKED later on, drove straight into the wall right before the uphill) but only ONE other MINI driving on the track!!!

1st session
So on the first session I kind of took it easy as I really wanted to get the feel of the Toyo Ra1's as this was the first time I'd ever run them. I also wanted to get used to running with my car.

I got the tires used from a track junkie who ran them two days and they were shod on a set of 16 x 7 SSR comps. Tire size was 205/55/16, which is slightly meatier than my street tires (205/50/16 Goodyear F1's) but I didn't feel like they were TOO thick. In fact, I couldn't have been happier.

These tires stick to the track like GLUE. I had pumped them up to 34.5 psi all around cold (had them in my trunk) and didn't feel the need to adjust them at all the rest of the day.

Towards the end of the day they did squeal every so slightly but never did I feel like I was losing grip.

I wasn't hitting the brakes hard enough according to my instructor during the first session. I also spent the time to focus on figuring out a line and a plan of attack. My goal was to be smooth and consistent, as well as focus on looking forward (one of the big points of class that they kept repeating and for good reason too)

Second session I had a different instructor as my instructor had another student who wanted him to ride with him and I was cool with that. Second guy told me it was a pleasure to ride with me. He did try to make me take the inside line on big bend, double apex, but I told him I was more comfortable with taking the wide, single apex line and he was fine with that. I knew of at least two instructors who got carsick from riding with novice drivers and I think the seats and harness really helped out this second instructor.

In terms of speed I was hitting about 110mph at the end of the main straightaway. When braking at the end I would hit the brakes as I felt myself crossing the "2" marker. My friend who came up to watch (and is a track junkie MINI driver) said that she saw the lights come on at "1".

Several times I would pass someone coming on to the main straight and then pass another driver at the end. There was a Ford Mustang (first time driver) who would brake at "8" even though the markers start at "6".

In terms of gears I was in 4th gear for the entire track except for most of the main straight where I'd get into 5th. Also if I was severely backed up by slow traffic in the non-pass zones I'd pop it into 3rd for a short while.

Going back to the braking, it certainly takes some practice to get used to absolutely stomping on the brakes. By the end of the 4 session my instructor still thought that I could have hit them harder and longer.

I noticed a bit of brake fluid on top of the reservoir after the 3rd and 4th sessions. I asked a fellow MINI owner who auto-x's a lot and he said that he never noticed any leaking brake fluid. Does this mean I boiled my fluid?

By the time I left the track the brakes were like sponges....so for next time, I'll be sure to flush my brake fluid like 2 days before the track event instead of the 2months lag that I had this time. I also have Motul RBF fluid which has a higher boiling point so I think that might help as well.

I never felt like I lost any significant braking power.

The "off"

Well, that just leads into this here, doesn't it? . Going the main straight with nobody in front or directly behind me towards the end of the 3rd session I missed my braking point. Standing on the brakes I realized "Uh-oh I'm going off the track" as I just didn't have enough room to slow down to make it the right into big bend.

The minute I hit the dirt, I left off the brakes, held the wheel relatively straight, and kind of let the car coast and tried to control the car. I felt the back end come around to the left (as I had been trying to go right) and luckily I just slowed down enough to avoid hitting anything or anybody. In fact, I don't think I came to a standstill before I heard my instructor yell "Go go go!" to get back onto the track so off I went (checking that I was clear to go of course).

I asked him later if Ihit the brakes at "2" and he said "Nope, you hit them at POINT 2" Oops. I will have to make sure I am 100% completely focused next time. I lost my focus for just a split second and it could have cost me dearly. My instructor later emailed me and said that he thought the off-track could have been avoided if I had stood on the brakes with a harder initial push. Man, I keep thinking I'm goig to break my brakes (no pun intended)!!

Do you guys STOMP on the brakes? I'm just trying to follow my instructor's footsetps and basically the sequence is as followings:

Full throttle
Wait until the last minute and STOMP on the brakes
Turn
Full throttle
Repeat & smile

On big bend I was trail braking a little bit. Still can't heel/toe worth a damn nor could I focus on double clutching so I'd just be standing on the brakes, and then pop it into 4th for the turn. I think most people naturally trail brake on the street.....

I didn't feel like I was going to go through a windshield when braking but I think that's just the damn beauty of the Schroth harnesses. I mean those suckers combined with the stiff Sparco Milanos and those crazy side bolsters really keep you planted. I found myself to be less tired this time around because the first time at the track I simply had the stock seats and seatbelts and felt like I had to use a lot of energy to keep my fat *ss planted in the seat.

In terms of bite I didn't feel the same kind of bite that I feel on the street. At street speeds if I stomp on the brakes, man the car just stops. At 110mph while stomping on the brakes, they didn't feel as grippy. However, as you'll see below, the instructor thought they were biting good...and thinks that I should upgrade to a set of track pads for the fronts.

The suspension

The bilstein pss9's were set to 6/7 back in May when I first installed them. I decided to firm them up a few days before the track and ride them around the street just to get used to them. I realized then that 6/7 was way too soft a setting for even the street. The car was bouncing up and down and it was only until I firmed it up to 3/4 that I really noticed this.

Now the bumps are just gobbled up and the car is simply astounding in terms of stability in the corners (on the track of course and also during regular street driving). Next time I'm tempted to try 2/3 or 2/2 on the track.

These coilovers are the ones I should have gotten to begin with instead of mucking around with the TEIN SS+. I don't have camber plates even but I don't even know if I really need them. I suppose tire life will suffer (front left especially) if I don't get them.....But I have to wait until Helix gets them back in stock.

Anybody think it's absolutely necessary at this point? I felt completely comfortable with this current setup.

Also worth noting that at no time did I feel my inner wheel slip so I don't thin I really need a LSD. Does that mean I wasn't going fast enough?

Overall I was really, really happy with how the day went. There was one heavily modded WRX that I was going at it with. It was his second time as well. When he saw my r-compounds after we were done he said "No wonder!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I had R-compounds....." Next time I'll be in Intermediate 1 and I'm sure it will be just as fun. I wasn't focused on beating anybody (even though it certainly is an ego boost when you pass people - nobody can argue that) but I was really happy that I was able to continously hit my lines and for the most part stay focused. My instructor also told me "You take an interesting line coming out of the left hander into no-name straight. I'll have to try that next time."

So here's an email exchange between me and my instructor after mulling things in my head for a few days. His responses in black.

#####################

Future mods

I am thinking about the WayMotorWorks brake ducts. They are looking pretty neat. Has anybody taken them out to the track and really felt the difference? Given that they point to the center of the hub instead of right at the caliper, anybody think this will help reduce the temp of the brake fluid at all?



I'm thinking MSFTIOY'S ducts look OUTSTANDING! Great color choice on the car Sid!



I'll also be looking at the 3000 or the 3000 endurance pads for sure.....

And last but not least, some pretty damn awesome pics from tracktimephotos.com. I need to order some prints. Click to enlarge.




















Well, I think that about sums it up. I had a fantastic time, learned so much about my car and my driving, and I feel safer on the road already.

Now it's time to do some maintenance:

1) Brake fluid flush
2) Check rotors for damage
3) Replace belt tensioner (I think it's going south and fast)
4) Buy track pads
5) Change oil

Also for reference the other MINI on the track that day had zero mods except for a 19mm RSB. He has almost 10 DE's under his belt.

(Man this post turned out to be a lot longer than I expected. )

 

It's a fun way to spend the day.

I'm running Carbotech XP 10 front and XP 8 back. Get high temp brake fluid for sure, cooling ducts should help, I'm thinking about doing tht myself. I don't have LSD and I could felt I could have used it this week but it's only more money.

Have fun and just keep signing up you do get better and better and you'll see the lure for the high horsepower cars as you get faster and they blow by you when your peddling as fast as you can.

 

Don't sweat the long-winded post, LordOfTheFlies. Your post allows us wannabee track drivers live vicariously through your exploits. Please post a similarly lengthy summary of your next track day. I for one, look forward to reading it.

Some day I'll get up enough nerve to do a track day myself, but I definitely thing I need to invest in a lot more gear for my car, to withstand the punishment of track driving, (especially the brakes).

Thanks,

Jon

 

No for the first ones stock is fine just go out there and have fun, you'll begin to see what this silly little car can really do.

 

Yeah, pretty much no matter what car was in front of me right before the main straight, I'd have to get RIGHT up on their butt to even think about passing them. That certainly takes a little getting used to.

Motul RBF next time for sure and if I can squeeze in the brake ducts before Nov-2 I will.

Thanks Jon. I agree with Mozzarella - you should definitely take your car out as it is. I was very happy (in retrospect) to gain perspective by taking my wife's relatively stock car instead of my car the first time out. Like I said above, the other MINI didn't have ANY mods except for a rear sway bar and he'd done almost 10 events!

There was one guy at my first event who chuckled when I told him it was my first time. He said "I started out just like you and look what happened to me!" He had a truck with a trailer, two race cars, one for him, one for his wife, and three extra sets of wheels/tires!!!! He also said "Don't worry, you will have a BLAST today!" and I most certainly did.

Once you drive on the track, you realize that driving like a jackass on the street is a very, very bad idea.

 

Now that you've had a taste of the track, think about joining us at the Fall Weatherly Hill Climb on Sept 15-16. It's just down the road from Jim Thorpe. You even get the bonus of flying lessons. That's me just before the finish line.

 

Lord'
Glad you had a blast at LRP.
Brake fluid overflow is quite normal and it in no way means that you boiled it. You need to tie wrap a rag around the fill cap. It happens in all race cars.

Think about Hawk pads. They always did me very well.

RA1s squeal, especially at tracks like LRP where you have concrete patches. So you should have heard it around Big bend, left hander, Ss, and West bend. If you didn't then you need to pick it up a notch, ..

SCDA is a great club to participate with. Ian and family are a great crew. If you are close to LRP you should drive out and watch their event on the 4th. For sure there will be some pretty hot cars there, not to mention Paul Newman possibly.

Will you be at the Vintage races coming up soon? If so, lets try and meet and say Hi.

 

Also, go try NHIS with SCDA. It's there that you realize that LSD is needed. Fun little track, but a bit rough. Much cheeper to go there also.

 

I am very confused why your instructor put so much emphasis on last minute braking during your 2nd DE. You don't go fast by last minute braking. You go fast by making sure you exit the corner on the proper line with early throttle application. That's what you should stress in early DEs. Also if your car isn't tracked regularly I would not want to punish the brakes like that.

I've run 2 DEs at Limerock with NASA-NE. Their yearly November event in 2004 and 2005. I actually let up at 6 and touch the brakes to make sure they are there, then brake hard and let up to about 20% application by 1&1/2. Turn in starts at 1 with a single apex at the far side of big bend. You can be back on the throttle before half way through the corner. Throttle stear it to the apex. Why someone would teach you to slam on the brakes then have the suspension unloading as you turn in is beyond me. Save it for the race school. You want the car settled and happy on the way in.

Drive it like you have to drive it home. Mine was a 3+ hour drive back to northern Jersey.

Alan

 

alan: i don't know if the instructor was teaching "last minute" braking or just hard braking. if one "eases" into the braking, the brakes are already heated up when one pushes the pedal hard and has less brake capability. you can brake hard, but early enough to release the brakes and settle the car before turn in. i had one instructor describe my car as "a set of brakes w/ a car attached". he told me that for the PCA check ride for solo, i should release brakes and settle the car before turn in. i adjusted my brake points for the next session while still braking as hard and accomplished the objective of satisfying the requirement. now that i'm running solo, i still trail brake a bit into certain corners to get the car to rotate. i advocate straight line braking and getting the car settled before turn in for novice drivers, but as skill levels improve there are other ways to approach a corner.

 

Great writeup, thanks for sharing.

Another data point for the brake pads. Might want to look into some Porterfield R4 for track days. before you go and cut up the bumper cover for the ducts you might want to try a BBK.

Just my 2 cents

 

I'll check it out!

I'll check the hawks for sure. I have the HPS on my Subaru Forester NA and it does a great job of stopping the car now.

I flushed out my brake fluid today with Motul RBF600. Backing the car onto the flat spot on my driveway the brakes originally felt like SPONGES before the flush so I'm pretty sure I toasted the fluid. After the flush I took it for a test drive and it took a little bit of bedding in to rid the rotors of the rust that had accumulated over the past 4 days (haven't driven the car) but then the brakes finally came back to "normal" with the bite that I was accustomed to.

Most vividly I remember them squealing for sure on the left hander and West bend....On big bend I was taking it way on the outside with my left tires on the asphalt. Maybe I do need to take it up a notch next time.

If I can make it to the 4th I will. What's the story with Paul Newman? Must be car nut. Heh heh. Were you talking specifically about Vintage races at LRP? I'll check out their calendar. It would be great to meet you in person!

That will definitely be a weekend trip! For now I think I might just do a few more DE's at LRP just to really acclimate myself with my car. Speaking of which I still need to find a reputable shop near NYC to do an alignment.


Thanks for the comments Alan. I'm looking for different perspectives on braking for sure since I have no experience other than these two DEs. My impression was that he was stomping harder than I would have instinctively and also release earlier than I would have done without instruction. All his braking was straight line btw when he was driving.

I do remember my very first instructor (1st DE, 1st session only) was VERy smooth on the brakes when he drove the first three laps to demonstrate his line to me. It was very different from Tim's instruction for sure.

Your last comment makes me want to get a trailer and use my Subaru to haul the car up there.

Yes, I would say he was probably teaching hard braking. For what it's worth I never felt like the car was unsettled during turning - I always the car dip forward on the braking and then I would release and turn...On Big Bend I definitely did a bit of trail braking....

Thanks gnatster. I was thinking about a BBK but I thought I would explore more economic options before plopping $1000+ on a kit. Also I'm not crazy about adding more rotational mass to the wheels and I'd have to make sure they'd fit under my 16" summer, winter, and track rims (OZ ultraleggera, v-spokes, ssr comps)

I'll check out the porterfield R4's as well. Thanks for the suggestion.

Do you have a bbk?

 

Yes, currently its a Wilwood from TCE, the 11.75 Race Kit with 12.2 rotors. I'm about to replace it with the TSW kit.

 

The white mountain BMWCCA chapter has a fri-sun NHIS event October 26-28. Usually, BMWCCA events at NHIS require you to spend a little over an hour flagging on the course. But this event also has a club race going on, so there will be professional flaggers present - no flagging duties for the students.

I'll be posting a thread soon with a report / video from NHIS last Thursday.

 

If I read correctly, you've done two DEs in total....forget about the BBK for now. Good brake fluid as you've done, some more aggressive pads (Hawk HT10s are great, I use and like PF97s) and take that $1000+ and put it into seat time.

Gary
05 MC
06 MC

 

I have a question about tech inspections.

SCDA requires you to fill out a sheet for tech inspections.

However, they don't really inspect anything. Just a quick eyeball to make sure you don't have anything loose in your car or your car.

They didn't check the brakes.

They didn't look under the car for any signs of wear or tear.

They didn't pop the hood.

They didn't check the rating on the helmet.

At my first DE they didn't even look inside the car and said "Everybody's a big boy and we expect you guys to do your own tech inspections".

Is this how all clubs operate?

I had a fanstatic time and thought all the instructors and class sessions were great....but this part concerns me.

 

BMWCCA will check you brake lights, make sure the car is empty, make sure the tires are good, make sure the wheel bearings are good, look under the hood, look at the brake fluid, etc.

When I did an SCDA event, I also thought the lack of tech inspection was strange.

COM takes tech inspection very very seriously. For a multi-day event, if your car leaves the track - like to go to a hotel for the night - they will re-tech it the second day. And they have lots of tech rules since their events are competitive / timed.

 

Thanks for the awesome writeup!

Regarding your question about "stomping" the brakes, I agree that it feels like that in an instructor's car. But if you actually do stomp them, you're risking putting the car off balance; remember, everything is supposed to be smooth. The best word an instructor has used with me for what I should do to the brakes is to "squeeze" them, while being smooth on and smooth off. Obviously, this takes many (like me) much practice.

mb