I think many drivers just aren't experienced at going side-by-side into a corner with another car; most groups discourage doing so by saying "facilitate the pass" or "get the pass done before the braking zone/apex" or simply "no passing in the corners!" That's where driving with PCA groups that have "expanded passing" is great; they encourage doing it. Very simple: Draw an imaginary line down the middle of the corner and whatever side you're on, STAY THERE through the corner! Works great. And the option is there to not give or take the pass if it doesn't feel right, unlike groups like Chin where in their Red (advanced) group (with whom I'll be driving Labor Day Mon and Tues at the Glen) you MUST point the car by if they are on your bumper. It's in groups like this where it's really annoying when you give the point, say, entering the Esses, stay all the way left all the way up the hill collecting all the crap on your tires, and they don't go!

And BTW, with SCDA I was pointing people by in the corners for two days (like we're not supposed to do) and nary a word was said; I actually made a friend in a race-prepped BMW who thanked me profusely for doing so.

 

I agree. That's why my favorite on-track moments happen when I get on the tail of one of those testosterone-fueled muscle cars or (especially) BMWs and force it to give me a pass-by. Nobody wants to be passed by an old man in a MINI! I would say that 1 out of every 5 or 6 drivers of those cars, even in the I2 group, have never seriously thought about how to get around a turn. I have a framed blowup of this photo hanging in my garage:

 

LOL! West Bend @ LRP?

 

GVC does what they call “late point by” which works really great for me as I can tuck in behind the faster car without loosing speed. I’ll give a point by right up to the point I am going to hit the brakes. After that, I have 2 hands on the steering wheel as the car will tend to dance a bit. Similarly, at WGI, I will point a car by going into T2, but you won’t see me giving a point by after the turn in for T2 until that straight just before T4. I am hanging on for dear life with both hands through T2 and T3 and there is no F’in way I am sticking my hand out the window for anyone. Or in the middle of the bus stop, so I guess I will never be running with Chin...

Quite frankly, I don’t trust people to go side by side through the apex of a turn, especially through the esses or bus stop. I could do it, but I have seen too many sideways cars there to think I won’t have a problem. And I have had a problem or two in those areas (anyone up for ride on antifreeze at the apex of T3?). Then there was the GT3 that thought it would be a good idea to dive bomb me, with no point by, going into the uphill at LRP. This was after I did a late pass for his buddy and was going to tuck in behind him, but caught the 2nd one coming in fast as I was about to turn in. Luckily, he saw that I was doing my turn-in and hit the brakes hard, otherwise I would have had no where to go. For that turn, I do an early turn-in and they don’t. He might have thought he had a few more feet to get under me. It is idiots like that person that make me mis-trust most out there, if I don’t know them

 

Ever have a guy pass you on the opposite side of where you pointed? I'll tell you about it Tuesday when I see you, but it happened coming down the hill after the carousel @ WGI on Monday. Black Camaro....no surprise there.

 

There is definitely an element of trust in sharing the track in this manner, and really the only way to find out is to do it and be prepared to do what it takes if it doesn't go well; then you'll know who you can trust. And make sure you tell somebody in charge what happened so they can deal with it; it's what we pay for after all. At this point we're all pretty advanced drivers out there who, at least in my case, have seen a lot of this stuff and dealt with it, and is why most groups only allow this stuff in the high intermediate and advanced groups.

I find the Glen to be a pretty easy place to get people by in turns as most of them are so wide--I just give a ton of room and that's usually enough.

 

Yeah, I told the powers that be about the dangerous pass, and there was a hint that it was partially my fault for giving the point by too early! No mention was made of the fact that the Camaro driver DIDN'T KNOW that the car giving the point by stays on line! This is in INT2, one step away from advance. Very scary, almost as much as what happened on track. 😱

 

Turning into no-name straight.

 

I'm signed up for 10/12 at LRP and was just looking at the schedule. It appears that all groups except advanced get 5 minutes chopped off their last session while the advanced group gets four full 25-minute sessions PLUS a fifth session running with the instructors. WTF?

 

Woo Hoo More time for Me...

I wonder if he will get push back from this?

I wonder if Elivan is expecting a lot of people to be leaving early. I also wonder if he would let you go out in that last session if you asked.

 

Pretty sure it's been that way for a while, gkp. Advanced/Instructor's last run is 5 minutes longer. This may be the first time advanced actually gets an extra session. Usually by that point in the day, the track is pretty empty, as you know. Probably an incentive to attract instructors for next year to risk their life when they may actually be in the same car as the novices. Half day events don't follow that schedule; all runs are the same length (20 minutes). You can go onto the site and click on Lime Rock Park to view all the schedules from this year.

 

It was the extra session that I didn't understand. Turns out the schedule on the registration site is wrong. Elivan sent me the updated schedule and advanced doesn't get a fifth session. Sorry Eddie 07S! You'll be there in October?

 

That makes much more sense, gkp. First mistake I've ever heard Elivan making, either on the track or off!

 

I am crestfallen



Not sure yet on October, but it is possible... VV are you up for it?

 

Scheduled for Columbus Day....or whatever we're supposed to call it these days. I'll have to think about that for a bit.

 

Had a grand time yesterday at LRP. A lot of fun and fast cars there. Even a new C8 Corvette. And a few low slung open cockpit race cars in the Advanced group.

It was really good to see VV there, although not much time to converse as there was only a few minutes of overlap between session. Once the track went hot the 20 min sessions for each of the 3 run groups came up really fast. We had a nice shade pop-up which was nice in the the 85+ deg sun and a lot of cool drinks to stay hydrated.

Smokey held his own in the Advanced group. GT3 Porsches, race cars, Vipers, Corvettes... Oh My! He made his driver look good. Generally once the faster cars got ahead, It was a while, if at all, that they would lap him. So after a lap or 2 of letting faster cars pass, all was good. So Smokey’s lap times must have been respectable compared to the rest. Except for one older M3 who was slower than Smokey and thought it was a good idea to drag race me down the front straight and into T1 after giving me a point-by, every one else was well behaved. I will say, running with those cars is tiring on this old body... But it felt good... And I had an uneventful drive home. No road ‘gators...

But there is this cat ready to pounce on any unsuspecting cars traveling to LRP...


A really fun piece of road art on the way to LRP

How can you not grin when you see this?

 

Very cool. There are a couple of painted rocks around here too: one of a shark, the other an elephant. Both very well done.
Great to see Eddie at Lime Rock yesterday, and a big thank you for the lightning fast wheel changeovers! This will give you a chuckle. I ended up putting MY street tires on backwards at the end of the day. No worries, the car doesn't see rain, but ironic given what I mentioned to you at the track!
I didn't encounter any felines lying in wait to pounce on my MINI. It was a nice, quick ride home. Looking forward to whenever the next track day is. I will probably do that date on Columbus Day if weather cooperates...

 

Sounds like something I would do. have done. I also left off a centering ring one time after a LRP day. Two more reasons why I don't change wheels at the track any longer. After a day on track, I think I'm too tired to think straight.

 

😁LOL😁

Maybe Eddie 07 will chime in on the necessity/optionality of those centering rings...I always learn something new from him when he's at the track.

 

There is a good discussion about hub centric vs wheel bolt centric wheels HERE. The discussion goes on for a few posts. I too learn something all of the time. The MINI wheels are bolt centric.

Honestly, I like having the centering rings, even so. It does help to put the wheel on and it is possible to get the wheels off center with the bolts if not torqued right.

 

In short, if the wheel calls for hubcentric rings you should use them for all the reasons stated--they help in mounting the wheel and once the bolts are tight the rings hold no load. Just had a discussion on this last night with Bart from TireRack, whom I called because I bolted my Konig Dial-Ins on the car last Friday before I left for the Glen to drive with Chin. Checked the pressures and one had about 16# of air, so took it off, soaped the valve and both beads--nothing. Filled it with air, put another wheel on the car and waited until Saturday morning--same deal. Luckily Anthony was in the shop at Towne Mini so he put it in the tire tub and we watched bubbles billowing from a thin crack on the back of one of the spokes where it meets the rim surface. I clean these wheels inside and out after every track day and I still didn't see this. After looking further, this wheel (which has 12 spokes) had 4 more with similar hairline cracks that went right across the base of the spoke and into the rim. Needless to say, this rim went into the bin. If this rim had held air I would have used it on the car and lord knows what would/could have happened during 2 days of harsh curbs at the Glen (which BTW were an absolute blast ).

Returned home and checked my remaining rims--one had one similar crack, one had FIVE, and one had SIX! I realize all wheels flex to some degree but I've never seen anything like this before. This also leads me to believe that this bendiness was contributing to my left front wheel bolts not staying tight as I told VV; just too much flex. So now they are ALL going into the bin; these lasted about 1.5 seasons or about 45 track days.

So I've got 6 new black 15x7 Sparco FF1s coming (TR did a complete package with 205/50 RE71Rs, the TPMS sensors, valves and metal rings ready to bolt onto the car; I ordered them last night at 8pm and they have already been put together and shipped out!)--I've had my eye on them for a while and a fellow Mini driver at the Chin event had them on his JCW in 17"--they look similar to the Konigs but seem quite a bit more robust--fewer spokes that are a bit thicker, and the mounting pads that face the hubs are larger in area. Turns out the 15x7s are listed at 11.25# in black; not much heavier than the Dial-Ins @ 10.9#. And they do use the stock bolts which I prefer--hopefully they'll stay tight now! Here's hoping--will break them in at the Glen Sept 21-22.

 

.....and on a sad note, which is not totally off-topic as she did drive a Mini at one point on the show, Diana Rigg (aka Emma Peel on The Avengers) has passed away.....one of this preteen's first loves to be sure! And she drove some pretty awesome cars on the show besides the Mini as I recall (Elan, E-Type, Austin-Healey I think)......she was also the only Bond girl to actually marry the guy (1969's On Her Majesty's Secret Service).

It's funny but I may be the only person on earth who's never watched GoT--didn't even know she was on it until today.

RIP.

 

This is a real eye opener...

I had heard that this could happen. I had not heard of it actually happening till now. I check mine, but I am not sure I would see cracks. Still, for me to get 45 days in is about 4 to 5 years...

GBuff - this can happen with wheel bolts and studs, too. If the wheels are broken, then I would assume the bolts/studs need replacing too.

I have seen broken stud fatigue. I helped a guy replace a broken stud. I was able to count the crack cycles on it... 11... one for each time he had bolted the wheel on, per his recollection. So, I would look at the cycle life of the studs/bolts as being the number of times they are loosed and tightened. Sorry I don’t have a good cycle life number for the studs/bolts, though. Just keep an eye on them. If one breaks then they all should all be replaced. I was at a GVC event at WGI where a guy replaced just the one broken stud on his new M5. The next time out, they all broke on that wheel he had only replaced the one on and he went off while going around the outer loop, hit the guardrail and rolled the car... I think there is a lesson here, somewhere...

 

Very sad to hear. I was fan of her’s throughout her career...

 

Wow, gbuff, really glad you solved the LF mystery before heading out for another couple of days at the Glen. We don't you and Diana Rigg meeting up any time soon! Probably a good idea to replace lugs every year if you do a lot of events like you do, or every year for a slacker like me. Cheap insurance. As far as wheels go, I have faith in my Enkeis, plus I don't drive the car as close to the limit as you do, so I think they haven't developed any cracks, visible or not. I did have a low tire at Lime Rock, but fortunately, it held air once pumped back up. That tire is chalk-marked (thx Eddie!) and I'll keep a close eye on it. Probably is the tire, and not the wheel; at least I hope that's the case. Anybody reading this thread going to VIR Oct. 5/6th? Too far for me to drive, but there may be some lurkers here who don't live too far from that track. Looks like an absolute blast of a track...maybe someday.