Drivetrain Selecting a Water/Methanol Injection System
#26
The bottle would have to go in the boot. Underbonnet temps would heat the bottle to much and possibly make the relief valve pop.
Along with a CO2 spray onto the IC they also have a block to run liquid CO2 and fuel to chill the fuel. From there the CO2 would travel to the IC. There is also a sleve to place in the Air intake hose to chill the incoming air.
I wondor how this would work for track use but I'd imagine it's more of a 1/4 mile type setup. I'll have to ring them up and ask.
Along with a CO2 spray onto the IC they also have a block to run liquid CO2 and fuel to chill the fuel. From there the CO2 would travel to the IC. There is also a sleve to place in the Air intake hose to chill the incoming air.
I wondor how this would work for track use but I'd imagine it's more of a 1/4 mile type setup. I'll have to ring them up and ask.
Last edited by gnatster; 05-29-2007 at 11:36 PM.
#27
Timing
A timing light will still work on these cars you just have to supply your own marks. I use this set up on the dyno often. Even though the Mini changes timing on a cylinder by cylinder basis, you can still get a real good idea of what's happening. The other method that I use that's very reliable is to install a piggy back computer that data logs as well. You'll get live info on any parameters that you choose to view. The advantages of the piggy back are obvious in that you can record anything from a 1/4 mile blast to a 30 min rack session. Knock is also a good parameter to monitor.
#28
Sid, the Varicool controller is able to be triggered by MAP (since our MINIs don't happen to have a MAF sensor), but the Snow Performance VC25 controller seem to be triggered only with MAF and boost. You're using the Snow Performance controller, correct? I'd be interested in using MAP for the controller (perhaps in conjection with boost), but I have no idea what 0V and 5V correspond to!
On the point regarding delay in boost/vacuum from running a 16' line, I haven't done any measurements either... However, my math is showing that for a 16' 1/8" line, there is a total volume of 2.356 cubic inches of air in the tubing. The small volume, and since like water in the WI line, this air is also displaced by pressure (assuming no leaks at the fittings), I suspect that response will be close to instantaneous. Someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong here.
May I ask how y'all are mounting the tanks in the trunks? Did anyone simply drill into the flimsy board that covers the battery in the MCS to put in hooks for the holding straps?
On the point regarding delay in boost/vacuum from running a 16' line, I haven't done any measurements either... However, my math is showing that for a 16' 1/8" line, there is a total volume of 2.356 cubic inches of air in the tubing. The small volume, and since like water in the WI line, this air is also displaced by pressure (assuming no leaks at the fittings), I suspect that response will be close to instantaneous. Someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong here.
May I ask how y'all are mounting the tanks in the trunks? Did anyone simply drill into the flimsy board that covers the battery in the MCS to put in hooks for the holding straps?
A timing light will still work on these cars you just have to supply your own marks. I use this set up on the dyno often. Even though the Mini changes timing on a cylinder by cylinder basis, you can still get a real good idea of what's happening. The other method that I use that's very reliable is to install a piggy back computer that data logs as well. You'll get live info on any parameters that you choose to view. The advantages of the piggy back are obvious in that you can record anything from a 1/4 mile blast to a 30 min rack session. Knock is also a good parameter to monitor.
Last edited by MSFITOY; 05-30-2007 at 05:46 AM.
#29
Next week I think I'll have a much better ability to capture logging data. We are installing the G2X finally with gauges and probes for all kinds of stuff. Now it's be just a matter of sitting down with the coupla hundred page manual and figuring it all out.
#30
Sid, The Auterra software will preform logging I think if I read the horrible manual that comes with it right. Not sure what you are using on the palm.
Next week I think I'll have a much better ability to capture logging data. We are installing the G2X finally with gauges and probes for all kinds of stuff. Now it's be just a matter of sitting down with the coupla hundred page manual and figuring it all out.
Next week I think I'll have a much better ability to capture logging data. We are installing the G2X finally with gauges and probes for all kinds of stuff. Now it's be just a matter of sitting down with the coupla hundred page manual and figuring it all out.
#32
For those of you seeking more info on AI, check out the forum on rx7club (http://www.rx7club.com/forumdisplay.php?f=173) and also an older forum on Grand Nationals. Very talented, experienced individuals contributing on both.
#33
I just installed a "Snow performance " Kit. located the injector in the air horn after the i/c. The tanks and pump are in the rear boot, and the liquid line is under the side trim and seat... I did get the Vari-boost selector ( which I mounted in the eng. compt) , and the anti-siphon solenoid !!
Because the pump is adjustable and the injection has the min/max boost engagement.. I will tune the system ( not the ECU) on the dyno to see where I need to be... But man is there a diff in the 90-100 Heat here in Fl.
Just me......................................
Thumper
Because the pump is adjustable and the injection has the min/max boost engagement.. I will tune the system ( not the ECU) on the dyno to see where I need to be... But man is there a diff in the 90-100 Heat here in Fl.
Just me......................................
Thumper
#34
I just installed a "Snow performance " Kit. located the injector in the air horn after the i/c. The tanks and pump are in the rear boot, and the liquid line is under the side trim and seat... I did get the Vari-boost selector ( which I mounted in the eng. compt) , and the anti-siphon solenoid !!
Because the pump is adjustable and the injection has the min/max boost engagement.. I will tune the system ( not the ECU) on the dyno to see where I need to be... But man is there a diff in the 90-100 Heat here in Fl.
Just me......................................
Thumper
Because the pump is adjustable and the injection has the min/max boost engagement.. I will tune the system ( not the ECU) on the dyno to see where I need to be... But man is there a diff in the 90-100 Heat here in Fl.
Just me......................................
Thumper
#35
Rocking...Tony of "HP Performance" is in Europe Tuning Ford GT's and I will wait for him to return to Dyno... probably next week, I hope! Wanna see some stupid?? go to www.turbofordgt.com , if you havent seen this... it is unreal!! click on the 21 minute movie!! and Hang on!! Welcome to the streets of Jacksonville Fl....LOL
just me...............................
Thumper
just me...............................
Thumper
#36
Rocking...Tony of "HP Performance" is in Europe Tuning Ford GT's and I will wait for him to return to Dyno... probably next week, I hope! Wanna see some stupid?? go to www.turbofordgt.com , if you havent seen this... it is unreal!! click on the 21 minute movie!! and Hang on!! Welcome to the streets of Jacksonville Fl....LOL
just me...............................
Thumper
just me...............................
Thumper
#37
#39
#41
Curious...where are you taking your reading from? My reading always drops nearly 10 degrees below ambient during injection...
#42
Thumper, does Tony have any ECU tuning options available for the MINI? That video was incredible - I was even more impressed after finding that from the factory, the Ford GT turns only out a measly 550hp and 500ft/lb.
Rocking...Tony of "HP Performance" is in Europe Tuning Ford GT's and I will wait for him to return to Dyno... probably next week, I hope! Wanna see some stupid?? go to www.turbofordgt.com , if you havent seen this... it is unreal!! click on the 21 minute movie!! and Hang on!! Welcome to the streets of Jacksonville Fl....LOL
just me...............................
Thumper
just me...............................
Thumper
#43
tuning..
Tony does.. the unichip he can tweek to what ever you need... I am not going to worry about the ECU till I finish " working it" on a stock ECU!!
Yeah.. He can make power from a rock!! LOL as a matter of Fact... He just came back from Europe, where he was tuning the GT's over seas.. cool??
But ...yes He can!!
Just me..................................
Thumper
Yeah.. He can make power from a rock!! LOL as a matter of Fact... He just came back from Europe, where he was tuning the GT's over seas.. cool??
But ...yes He can!!
Just me..................................
Thumper
#44
I'd like to go back to a flashed ECU. With the Unichip, I was impressed with the initial results. Performance continued to improve after driving around for a couple weeks. Then, about 3K miles after the tune, the ECU seems to have learned its way around the Unichip, and I'm getting the occasional CEL. I'm sure Tony can do wonders with the Unichip, but it's the practical limitations of a piggyback unit that leaves me somewhat underwhelmed.
Back to WI/AI - it seems like for a trunk-mounted progressive unit with SS lines from Coolingmist, it would come out to ~$600-700 for the initial sunken costs. That doesn't include the cost of methanol over time, but it should replace the 1/2 bottle of Lucas Octane Booster I'm currently adding with every tank of gas. (It's amazing how the ECU will adapt to higher octane - now and then, I won't add any octane booster, and when the tank is half empty, you immediately notice that the throttle response isn't as crisp as crisp and the car feels sluggish off the line.) I'm wondering if it isn't more cost-effective to deal with pinging by simply going with a head that removes hotspots (at least, RMW head users have reported resolution of pinging after install) instead of trying to increase octane rating of the 91-octane through AI.
Back to WI/AI - it seems like for a trunk-mounted progressive unit with SS lines from Coolingmist, it would come out to ~$600-700 for the initial sunken costs. That doesn't include the cost of methanol over time, but it should replace the 1/2 bottle of Lucas Octane Booster I'm currently adding with every tank of gas. (It's amazing how the ECU will adapt to higher octane - now and then, I won't add any octane booster, and when the tank is half empty, you immediately notice that the throttle response isn't as crisp as crisp and the car feels sluggish off the line.) I'm wondering if it isn't more cost-effective to deal with pinging by simply going with a head that removes hotspots (at least, RMW head users have reported resolution of pinging after install) instead of trying to increase octane rating of the 91-octane through AI.
#45
I was looking to increase power on a street driven ( hard street driven) MCS in 100* road heat and not too much air flow over the I/C. The w/m is great for that... no mater how hot it is outside , or how less the flow over the I/C, this seemed the way ...... 500.00 for the Snow injection/ variable boost/syphion solenoid vs the 800.00 for a trick I/C. Also as you are seeing..cost can be ..water?? windshield washer fluid..? Meth/ water mix?? and it is on only when you need it! Sit in traffic, build a lot of heat in the engine, get a straight streach and nail it!! The engine thinks is is 50* out side and pulls HARD!! Befor the "air can even start to cool the i/c" !! Works for Me.
Just me...............................
Thumper
Just me............................
Thumper
Just me...............................
Thumper
Just me............................
Thumper
#46
#47
AIT from OBD, ambient temp from OBC...
#48
I was cleaning the garage yesterday and miraculously found a canister of 100-octane fuel that still had about two gallons remaining. I dumped it the MINI, and had a blast - the throttle response was amazing, and it just wants to pull! For those times when I restrained myself, the throttle response was perfect even when there was only vacuum and no boost. That got me wondering, though - since the AI comes on only during boost, does the MINI ECU adapt and also help optimize throttle response (like with higher octane petrol) even during vacuum?
10F below ambient sounds like it would make the car feel crisp all the live long day, but do you need to be on boost (with the AI on) the entire time?
10F below ambient sounds like it would make the car feel crisp all the live long day, but do you need to be on boost (with the AI on) the entire time?
#49
I was cleaning the garage yesterday and miraculously found a canister of 100-octane fuel that still had about two gallons remaining. I dumped it the MINI, and had a blast - the throttle response was amazing, and it just wants to pull! For those times when I restrained myself, the throttle response was perfect even when there was only vacuum and no boost. That got me wondering, though - since the AI comes on only during boost, does the MINI ECU adapt and also help optimize throttle response (like with higher octane petrol) even during vacuum?
10F below ambient sounds like it would make the car feel crisp all the live long day, but do you need to be on boost (with the AI on) the entire time?
10F below ambient sounds like it would make the car feel crisp all the live long day, but do you need to be on boost (with the AI on) the entire time?
#50
Thanks to everyone for the all the input! I ordered a trunkmount kit with the Varicool progressive controller from Coolingmist - the proprietor, David, was very knowledgeable (he's familiar with some of the NAM members who ordered from Coolingmist). I also obtained 20ft of stainless steel Teflon hosing and the flow/clog detector, and will be doing the install on the weekend of Jun 30th - I won't be tapping the IC exit horn myself, so I'll be making an appointment for that sometime in mid-July.
Also found a good source of methanol in the Bay Area. Priced at $3.25 per gallon, and you can bring your own container (min. 5 gallon). They also offer various racing fuels (for off-road use only, of course! ).
Engine Research Co.
610 E Lewelling Blvd
San Lorenzo, CA 94580
(510) 276-9334
ercracingfuels.com
Also found a good source of methanol in the Bay Area. Priced at $3.25 per gallon, and you can bring your own container (min. 5 gallon). They also offer various racing fuels (for off-road use only, of course! ).
Engine Research Co.
610 E Lewelling Blvd
San Lorenzo, CA 94580
(510) 276-9334
ercracingfuels.com