But as these cars get older the factory LSD will wear out, right? I thought it was a clutch design, no?

 

HECK NO! Especially with the SPORT BUTTON operational. Smoke them tires!

 

You'll sure agressively CHIRP your tires with LSD and the SPORT BUTTON on, even with DSC. I never think to turn the DSC off. I love the aggravated takeoff with the SPORT BUTTON on.

 

Everything wears out as the car get older. Get the LSD, you 'll be glad, and at five hundred bucks it's a bargain. Aftermarket, if even available, will run you about $2100, so order it or pay later, if you can get it at all. It's a BARGAIN.

 

Get this! You will be glad you did!

 

Even without the sport button on, with the DSC off and the LSD a dump of the clutch will result in a truely spectacular dual-wheel burnout. Spectacular enough to make the owner of a riced-out Honda stare wide eyed and slack jawed.

 

=

 

AWESOME.

 

No, I'm pretty sure the OEM "LSD" is not a true clutch type LSD. I think it's really a TBD (torque biasing differential) i.e. locking under acceleration but open under deceleration. I believe this is it http://www.gkndriveline.com/drivelin...super-lsd.html

Unlike a clutch type LSD, under normal street driving conditions there should be no maintenance parts to replace. Of course on the track, the TBD will not take the kind of abuse a true LSD will (especially if one drive wheel consistently gets off the ground in turns).

EDIT: I got it wrong, the OEM LSD is a conical clutch type LSD. It's not a TBD.

 

I did burnouts with the ASC off. I don't have LSD.

 

This thread got me reading up on the different LSDs that are out there and I guess I'm curious that I'm understanding the LSD's function properly.

Since the MINI uses the Geared type Torque-Sensing LSD (presumably so anyway, sounds like it does from what I read) the main difference between the MINI's LSD versus a clutch based LSD is that you'll get more torque from a wheel with traction, but not the full share between the wheels as you would under lock in a torque based clutch?

So if the MINI had a 1.5 clutch LSD, on acceleration you would get a full share of torque between the wheels, even if one started slipping, and that lock would be softer upon deceleration. Allowing some difference in torque between the wheels to happen when you let up on the gas.

How easy is it really to screw up your factory LSD auto-crossing? Pretty much every article I read mentioned that the Geared LSD is not as robust as clutch and won't hold up under sustained racing.

And for that matter, owners that have LSD installed, should they even worry about the LSD if they do a lot of hard driving on their local roads?

 

Ooops, I meant to say "torque BIASING differential (TBD)" is what the OEM LSD unit really is. Torque SENSING Differential or Torsen is the Zexel trade name for it's AWD center differential, popularized in application by Audi and others. I fixed it above.

I think for street and autoX the TBD is preferable because it locks on acceleration but is open on deceleration. So you can induce all kinds of oversteer under braking or throttle lift to get around cones. A clutch type LSD locks under deceleration which induces understeer. This is great if you are going fast and trail braking deep into a corner and want some understeer to counteract the cars natural oversteer. Not so good if you are trying to dodge cones at lower speeds in a car which understeers to begin with. I believe the reason race cars would destroy TBDs is that when the car corners with enough force enough to completely unload the inside tire, because of the way the planetary gears work, the TBD turns into an open diff and the inside tire spins out with no torque going to the outside tire. All the spinning eventually kills the planetary gears. I doubt autoX in a MINI will kill a TBD easily.

EDIT: I got it wrong, the OEM LSD is a conical clutch type LSD. It's not a TBD.

 

DOH I screwed up. The OEM LSD is a conical clutch type LSD. It is not a TBD as I thought. I was thrown off by the lack of clutch plates. http://www.gkndriveline.com/drivelin.../Super_LSD.pdf BHatch, who is more astute than this dull author, pointed this out in another thread. So yes, the conical friction surface will eventually wear out and the have to be replaced, probably at great expense because the whole tranny has to come out. If the friction surface wears to nothing, the LSD basically acts like an open differential.

 

I've owned MCSs with and without LSD (both R53s). The effect is very nearly transparrent during a great majority of street driving. The subtle and welcome change is is the increased threshold for ASC intervention. Torque steer is increased vs the open diff, though I've only felt the effect on an autocross course under hard acceleration out of a tight turn.

I wouldn't have a MINI, or any other new car, without DSC or some equivalent, and I shake my head when I read comments from drivers who routinely switch it off on road.

 

I thought that any clutch type LSD was different from a Torsen (which is what that data sheet describes the Super LSD as).

I'm trying to find more information about the pre-load spring as well as I read in a couple places that it can make a big difference in how well the Torsen LSD functions.

Some links I was reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_slip_differential
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm
http://www.kaazusa.com/introductionT...ion_To_LSD.htm

I apologize if this is considered OT. I'm just hungry for information