Another question along the same line - has anyone ever messed up there supercharger shaft by pulling off the factory pulley (and I mean something other than scoring the shaft). The mechanic at my local MINI dealer said in conversation to be careful with removal of the supercharger puley as you could actually cause the shaft to slide out of the supercharger. If this was the cause of my problems would there be something noticeably wrong with the supercharger itself when in operation? I'm just trying to eliminate possibilities. khuevo seems to be making some valid points on misalignment, of which I definitely experienced on the first day for sure, so I'm just trying to find as much information as I can on the subject. Also, could driving the car with this misalignment cause some damage to the alta pulley that would continue to cause problems (hence problem solved when alta sends me the replacement pulley)? Thanks,

 

Here is the million dollar question - why would Alta redesign this pulley from version 1 if there wasn't a need? And I don't buy that it is strictly for aesthetic reasons, as the Alta tech on the phone mention the grooves machined into the pulley to stop belt slippage to me. So obviously there was concern that there was possibly belt slippage on version 1 to even try to address this in a new version.

 

Sounds like something someone who may not fully understand the V2 pulley, or why we made it???


This has come up a couple times. We have no idea why, but either the SC is being pushed in, or the castings are a bit different.

While this is generally good words to live by, what is more appropriate is:
"If its being copied, redesign and make it better"

In the last few months, this has come up about 5 times, and while this is a low % of issues compared to parts sold we are going to do something about it. We will raise up the bolts a bit to solve this issue.

Its very confusing as we have installed these many times at shows, and in front of lots of different cars and customers and never it was an issue. And we used the wrench we supplied with the pulley! The ball wrenches may be something that is required to install it, maybe we start including them.

That is a good point. The V1 and V2 doesn't always mean its going to be different. The V2 pulley is lighter, does have the grippers for the belt, and these features do make it better, but are not going to make it perform any different than the V1. Both hold on the SC shaft, both make 20WHP, the only real noticable benifit of the V2 might be, that over time a looser belt may still bite.

Actually the pinch bolts provide better bite on the SC shaft. This is a smoother, more even, and tighter bite, than the 4 prong collet. But the 4 prong still isn't bad. This is why we still offer both types. Both were offered to keep everyone happy. We knew there would be those who didn't want the new thing, and like the old one. Having options is important for our customers.

The belt slippage was never a problem. We just found a unique way to add a couple of selling features to the part. This revives a part that didn't really change for a few years, and gives customers a new reason to buy ours over someone else. Now the customers have a lighter, grooved, cooling finned, Tight gripping, with out any of the issues an aluminum pulley, or a press on pulley, or the added cost of coatings. In our eyes the part works the same, but has some features that make it stand out.

So yes we got a pulley off to you, and you should see this in a few days.

On the belt side of things, we do recommend the stock belt, with low miles. Or the JCW belt for the 15%. This has worked very very well for customers over the years. Yes the 539 does fit, but its tight, and because it is being tension a bit more than normal, it might wear out a little faster. That is our reason for it. But again, lots of people use them with success so we do know they work.

In this case the customer got the tighter belt and had constant squeaking. So naturally go bigger! It solved the issue except during the initial startup. After a few checks we just decided to send a new pulley. Just incase it was something strange.

I am sure this will all solve the problems and the customer will be on his way making 20 extra WHP!

 

Thanks Alta2 for chiming in on all of this - I am really hoping the new pulley is the end of all of this. What is the advice for me since I do have an issue with clearance to the bottom pinch bolt - we applied pressure to the outside of the pulley as we torqued so I'm not sure that it's misaligned in the same fashion, but it's possible. And I did put a brand new stock belt on and I'm afraid to drive it as there is barely any room on the tensioner - I can't see the first whole at all. What's the fix, as I really really don't want to have to deal with this anymore (incase I hadn't already made this very obvious)?

 

I have always used the 06535 belt on 15% pullies with 0 problems, and the hole always seems to line up right. I recently purchased an 02 S, the previous owner had installed a V2 with the same problem, only he hadn't realized it. What I had found, was that the s/c shaft had moved outward slightly (as mentioned above, the shaft "floats" in the rotor). I have had this happen to me early on (sometime in 02) when installing one of my first pullies, before I had a fool proof removal tool made.
Motogeno, could you tell us your method of pulley removal? Is there a chance that you pulled or pried on the shaft? For what its worth, you most likely did not do any damage to your car, and the tensioner is probably also OK.
--Dan

 

I understand both, thank you, and i've seen more than a couple Alta v.2s have problems. There is no way the v.2 design can compare to the original self-centering design pulley from any manufacturer. I can see people wanting to use it if the SC shaft has some damage, but other than that, no thanks.

 

I can understand that Alta was starting to feel like they were blending into the crowd (as the crowd caught up), but I'm very disappointed with the number of issues and the unknowns from Alta's end as to why the V2's are not working.

The V2 is definitely a different design than the V1, but to go through this headache, research, design and learning curve and not gain any improvements... I would rather have seen those $s taken off the V1 pulley (after all that development work has been more than amortized away).

I think we will feel much better with the V2 once Alta can tell us why they are not working. Possibly they need to work directly with Eaton to understand variations in the housings/shafts?

 

It seems people are quick to jump on the V.2 as the root of all problems in their lives. Let's take a step back here. The V.1 and V.2 align themselves on the supercharger shaft axially IN THE SAME WAY; by sliding the hub onto the supercharger shaft until the stop bottoms out. If your supercharger shaft is pushed or pulled, ANY pulley will be misaligned.

The only difference between the two styles of hub are the methods the hub clamps to the shaft. k-huevo brought up that using a standard allen key will not allow you to fully seat the V.2; OK fine, use a ball-tip allen key.

Besides the allen-key misunderstanding, what problems are competent installers actually having?

 

I'm worried about this quote

"Its very confusing as we have installed these many times at shows, and in front of lots of different cars and customers and never it was an issue. And we used the wrench we supplied with the pulley! The ball wrenches may be something that is required to install it, maybe we start including them."

Alta should solidly know if their pulley will work in all cases (i.e. coordinate with Eaton regarding shafts and cases). These issues (i.e. teething problems) are tough to handle if the redesign to V2 wasn't even needed...

 

Excellent point! What I think Jeff was trying to say was " Hey I have NEVER run into this in our real world installations, but I don't want to say you or anyone else made a mistake in the installation. But could you check xyz to be sure." We try VERY hard NOT to accuse the client of making a mistake, or blame something else (the S/C body etc.)

We have re-invented the wheel to some extent with the new pulley design. I FIRMLY believe there isn't anything wrong with it (nor do you it seems) but anytime someone has a problem we want to try to help. Plus, there is significant truth to the "we have been copied by nearly everyone, we need to do something again to differentiate ourselves from the also-rans." Nothing against the V1 or Classic styles, but I can say from an ownership position it is VERY upsetting to see other benefit from your design. (And since it was NOT available to be patented we can't take any action, but still frustrating.) For newer NAM members they may want to use the search function or the Way Back Machine on the internet to truly see that ALTA was the genuine pioneer with the Classic style. (I still think Jeff swears about it being copied more than I!)

ALTA will continue to market both designs as long as folks want them. We may even revamp the Classic again to keep things fresh.

Thank you again for allowing this type of honest discussion. If Jeff or I can ever help further PLEASE let us know!

 

Do you honestly think Eaton is going to support ANY aftermarket business whatsoever? They have much bigger things to bother themselves with, like supplying GM with a raft of new-gen blowers for all their new LS series V-8's.

The best ALTA can do is sniff out some measurements and design for the bell-curve. They can't be held responsible for people hack-sawing or hammering off their stock pulleys with schotty tools.

Regarding the allen-key thing; you can get the included ALTA key to work if you tighten the bolt off-axis. No, it's not ideal, but it's possible. Don't rag on ALTA for giving you something to work with when they didn't have to do anything at all.

 

Which would you rather install in the tight environment the pulley lives...

the very simple yet effective self-aligning hub design of the v.1 pulley...

image courtesy of Alta
...that you can get a 3/8s ratchet/torque wrench on to tighten the bolts...

...or the rather bulky design of the v.2 hub that does not self-align and has bolts on one side
in effect making that one side of the hub heavier...

image courtesy of Alta
...with one bolt you have to tighten with a ball tip allen wrench...how accurate will that bolt torque be?

I'll go with the v.1 design.

 

PARTSMAN: Thank you for the posts. I truly appreciate the feedback as I do on ALL of our parts. But there are some significant benefits to the V 2.0. Including the "bulky design" of the inner hub. That is FULLY balanced down to the n'th degree. Something you simply can't do on the Classic. It is lighter, (when done properly) easier to install with less chance of error. It does work on shafts that have been damaged, grip tooth deign to the outer part, allows easy interchange of the upcoming V 2.0 separate outer pieces.

BUT and this is a big BUTT we are HAPPY that you like EITHER version. Hence the reason for both. If I have a client call me today I will honestly tell them the V 2.0 is better. BUT if they feel better with our original design from 2002, that is A-ok with me.

Not poking at you in anyway if it seemed as such. I truly mean I LIKE discussing my products! Hope you can see that. If you decide to switch out the 16% with something else PLEASE let me know. Happy to help personally!

Chat soon!

 

Hey Adam, I appreciate the post. I'm not taking anything you say as poking, so no worries. I'm just here discussing the product(s). I understand why the v.2 was born, i'm just partial to the original design. Just keeping it simple.

BTW, if I switch out the 16% it will be for a twin-charge or turbo only.

 

We rented the pulley removal tool from Alta, which I need to return to them by the way. I would say that it is possible in our inexperience that we pried on the shaft more than we should have, but would say that we didn't do any hammering or banging - what's the fix for this if the shaft did back out a bit? Can it just be delicately hammered back into place? Please tell me that there is a solution other than a new supercharger!!! It should be obvious if it has backed out, correct? In essence if that is the problem then the hub simply won't be able to seat to the supercharger when I put the new one on, right? Thanks for the info!

 

In some cases Jeff has spoken to clients that have PULLED the shaft out and they were able to simply be tapped back in. If it has been pressed IN, the s/c must be removed to be re-adjusted.

Let me know so we can go from there!

 

Thanks Adam - I'll let you know what's going on Monday. If it is anything with the shaft it would be pulled out and not pushed in, and I'm thinking that it will be obvious as the hub should seat right against the supercharger - so if there is a gap then I know that it's pulled out, right?

 

That's virtually impossible - there are always variations in mfg tolerances, and for Eaton, that particular tolerance is irrelevant.

V2 has been out for some time now, so it's not really teething problems, it's more of an outlier issue. The possible need for a ball end allen hardly calls for an ECO.


That was my first impression - but note the balancing holes drilled on the opposite side

'may' have to - according to Alta (and my extensive experience of one install ) it's not usually necessary.
Having watched Randy Webb install dozens of pulleys with a T handle, I'll trust that precise torque is not a key factor in reliability for the pulley.

A reasonable position.



To the OP - hope you get your issues sorted out!!

 

Its good that people get all this out of their system. It seems there has been some under lying concerns and questions on peoples minds. We are here to solve and answer those questions.

When we came out with the V2, our release notes described all these things, how its balanced to half a gram, how its installed, how its lighter, how it holds the shaft with more torque (using 2 bolts tightened to 80in-lbs, not 3 bolts) and the grooves and all that. While the success of this part is still very good, with a couple of changes i think we can make this part even easier to install.

It seems like people think we have had tons of fitment issues, this just isn't the case. A few here and there, but even with the older style this same alignment issue would come up once and a while. This could be from SC tolerances or how the OEM part was being removed. But using our first few test parts and installations, and all the public installations we have done over the year with the V2 we have never EVER seen the issues described above. So why would we change anything. But with that said we can make a couple simple changes and eliminate any of these concerns. but for now, NO ONE should worry about these alignment issues. The parts work, simple as that.

With all this talk of misalignment issues, this is another benefit to our newer design. Say a guy pushed in the SC shaft and the pulley is not lined up. With our V2 design a customer can accurately move the hub out to align the belt. Measure the distance it has to move, loosen the hub, slide out , re-tighten and done!! With the Classic pulley, it is very hard to do this with accuracy due to the 2 pieces being loose until tightend up. Just something that hit me when reading all this.

 

Okay, so here it is - we examined everything yesterday, took it apart, and put it back together. We used an L shaped ruler and a string to determine if there was misalignment with the Alta pulley or the shaft of the supercharger and found that it was so close to being completely aligned that it was impossible to tell with our naked eyes. We swapped out that pulley for the new one that Alta sent us, and did the same thing to asure that is was in alignment - I really don't think that the shaft or pulley are out of alignment at all. We changed out the tensioner even though there seemed to be nothing wrong with it at all. And lastly we installed the 060535 NAPA belt, which by the way IS the correct belt for this installation (thank you for the information NAM members) as once that belt has stretched from just a day use the hole is showing on the tensioner much in the exact same way that it was before any of this was done. Started it up yesterday and no squeal (there never is intitially) and drove it about 120 miles last night for a New Years Eve party. Then the real test this morning - cold start after it has sat overnight, which is always where the problem is.

And, it is very very little, but there is still squeak on that f$%&ing belt!!!!!!

Now, if it stays the way that it was it was it is so very little that I would not even be writing this - but so far the history of this install has dictated that this will continue to progressively get worse until it is to a level of irritation again. All I can really do is monitor it for the next several days to see if this is indeed the case. If it does get worse, I am completely at a loss and extremely irritated with this install. There was absolutely no squeak before any of this and I cannot understand at all why there could possibly be any now - everything that we touched has been changed, inspected, and checked for alignment. The hub on the pulley rests completely on the back of the supercharger and the grooves on the inside of the hub sit snug against the front of the shaft. The grooves on the pulley seem to be in alignment with the crank pulley, and the NAPA belt 535 has given us as close to the factory tension as any other belt (and the factory, and the 539 gave significant squeak).

If this gets worse, my only option at this point is to take it to the dealership and hope that they have an answer for me, and not at my costs!!! If anyone has any suggestions, particularly the people of Alta, I would greatly appreciate it! In the mean time I will cross my fingers that the belt squeak just stays the way the it is, or even goes away on its own!!! Thanks,

Chris

 

Ok if you replaced the belt, the tensioner and the pulley and the noise persists, it sounds like something is still wrong.

Where does the "squeek" emanate from? The belt, the pulley, the tensioner, the alternator, the crank pulley etc.

If it is misaligned, then it should come from the pulley someplace. Meaning the belt is riding against the side of the pulley vs. in the grooves. If it is coming from the S/C itself, you may have damaged the bearing in the end, while pulling and prying the old pulley off (VERY RARE!!!! So doubtful.)

get us some more info, so we can all help you further. Sorry for the frustration.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

 

Thanks for the reply Adam. The squeak is only there in the mornings on cold start, and only lasts 30 seconds to 1 minute. I have opened the bonnet and put my ear near the pulley and belt and I am positive that it is coming from the belt or pulleys, but have no idea how I would distinguish which one specifically that it's coming from. Any suggestions? Would bearings quit making noise after 30 seconds and not be heard from again throughout the course of a day, even when the car sits for hours? And, would they get significantly better (almost gone completely) with the change of a belt only to come back after a few days? We have watched the tracking of the belt as it is moving and do not see any sign of it rubbing against the shoulder of the pulley - it seems to run completely true to the naked eye. I can't for the life of me understand why it only happens after sitting over night - there is no squeak at all once it's warmed up no matter how high the rpm's get.

 

I had an interesting "knocking" sound before I swapped out my s/c pulley. During the install I had a new belt tensioner nearby. The old tensioner idler bearings were SHOT, rotating by hand yielded a fun clicking sound. Naturally I installed the new tensioner. No more "knocking" sound.

Moral of the short story: you may have an idler or bearing going bad.

 

Thanks for the input. I replaced the tensioner with a new one (and there was nothing wrong with the old one as far as we could tell) so it can't be the tensioner. Also, the car only has 7,000 miles on it and it made absolutely no noise before any of this.

 

So, here is an update on the situation. Looked under the hood on Sunday and there was condesation/water droplets over every metal piece under the hood after sitting on a cold night. Of particular interest was the water droplets on the supercharger pulley and tensioner, as I'm thinking at the time that this is the reason for the squeaking. Closer inspection reveals that the red silicone hoses on my Oil Catch Can are weeping oil, particularly where they come out of the pcv valve. Replaced all of this hose with fuel line hose from autozone, and hoped that this was the solution to everything. Well there was no more weeping, and no more condesation on the engine the next morning (although it was noticeably warmer that night).

Well the belt still squeaks, and it was particularly bad this morining although it was rainy and very humid (didn't have time to open hood this morning). Still, it only last for about 30 seconds to a minute and then it's gone.

I don't know if the leaky hoses were the cause of the condesation, or even belt squeak, but I do know that all of these problems are really starting to burn me out on all of this .

So I guess, unless someone posts a cause for all of this, I'm calling the stealership in the am to schedule an appointment to bring it in.