Drivetrain BOV
#126
Back on topic. The srt4 neon and the srt4 caliber (owned both) both have a surge valve/diverter valve etc (each manufacture uses a different name for it). Like hte mini, the surgevalve is built into the the turbo. I have had great results leaving the stock surge valve alone and bypassing the electronic control (it spools quicker) of it. I let it work only off of manifold pressure. I then go and put a real bov on the cold side (after its been chilled by teh intercooler) of the plumbing. Now you have a valve on both ends which allow you to dump the pressure in the the plumbing alot quicker. When you install a real bov (larger) you will notice a difference if you know what to look for, here is an example:Lets say your at WOT then shift, it takes say 300rpm for your boost to go back up to say 10psi. WHen you install an aftermarket bov and shift, youw ill notice yoru boost come back on in about 100rpm or so. A bov adds 0 power, it does give you boost sooner. 99.9% of people purchase a bov because of the sound and dont really know what a bov is for besides using the general term of "It prevents compressor surge."Here is a good article on how it works. Its mainly for neons but it applies to this too. You will notice that i call the mopar bov plate a ricer mod. Happy reading:http://www.exhaustdepot.net/bloffva101.html
#127
#129
#130
BOV vent to the atmosphere, waste gates vent to the exhaust. They are completely different things. BOV are designed to reduce boost pressure without slowing down the turbo. Waste gates are designed to bypass the turbine section of the turbo and reduce pressure and speed by venting exhaust gas around the turbine and into the exhaust pipe.
The Forge unit allows the mini computer to do it thing and works very nice, had one since day one. The ALTA unit according to the docs go onto the noise maker tube and required tapping into the intake manifold. I would change the docs and use the ALTA vac/boost adapter spacer and tap the vac/boost pressure that way and DO NOT drill anything (great for warranty issues).
Between the two above units, the Forge installs real quick, done one in less than 30 minutes and meets the goal of reducing pressure. The ALTA unit is nice and adjustable (if you know what you are doing), but does take longer and requires more things to be taken apart to get it in. Each has their benefits depending on your technical expertise
So far, my dealer has had nothing to say about the Forge unit (since it is invisible when installed) and the shop folks love the sound and increased response
Cheers.
The Forge unit allows the mini computer to do it thing and works very nice, had one since day one. The ALTA unit according to the docs go onto the noise maker tube and required tapping into the intake manifold. I would change the docs and use the ALTA vac/boost adapter spacer and tap the vac/boost pressure that way and DO NOT drill anything (great for warranty issues).
Between the two above units, the Forge installs real quick, done one in less than 30 minutes and meets the goal of reducing pressure. The ALTA unit is nice and adjustable (if you know what you are doing), but does take longer and requires more things to be taken apart to get it in. Each has their benefits depending on your technical expertise
So far, my dealer has had nothing to say about the Forge unit (since it is invisible when installed) and the shop folks love the sound and increased response
Cheers.
#131
My point is this, if you want noise, buy any of the intakes out there. They all allow the BOV noise to be released. IF you want REALLY loud, and or NEED more venting then the ALTA is the better choice in that situation.
Thanks for the post!
#132
general blow off valve questions
[SIZE=2]This is a question about blow off valves more in general. I know what their basic functionality is: they release compressed air produced by the turbo when the engine no longer needs it. I know that they usually vent the air into the atmosphere. I have read that that can screw up the engine performance because it causes it to run rich. I am under the understanding that if you route the blow off valve output back to the intake before the turbo but after the mass airflow sensor, that fixes the problem, but the blow off valve doesn't make the sound that it is known for. If that is the case, does that mean that everyone who is running a loud blow off valve has poorer engine performance, or are there ways to achieve both?
The other question is: can someone explain how directing the blow off valve output back into the intake before the turbo and after the sensor fixes the engine running rich problem? My understanding is that the mass airflow sensor takes a measurement of the air coming in so that the computer can calculate the proper fuel air mixture for the given throttle position. If the throttle is in the closed position, that should mean that a minimal amount of air would be needed for the engine combustion, so the computer should only allow that minimal amount of air in for combustion. In the case of a system with a blow off valve, this scenario would cause the blow off valve to activate and release the extra air, thus creating a situation where there isn't a proper amount of air left for the computer calculate fuel amount. I can see how this makes the engine run rich for a moment. What I don't understand is how putting that air back into the system before the turbo helps the running rich problem. Reason being.... The mass airflow sensor is still calculating air coming in from the outside and is unaware of the extra air being put back into the system via the blow off valve. I would think this would create the situation where there is more air in the system than the mass airflow sensor calculated. Maybe that doesn't matter because the computer only takes what it needs for combustion, so that long as there is not a shortage, things run smoothly. This still leaves me with the question of: as long as the blow off valve is open, how does it matter to engine combustion whether or not the extra compressed air is vented into the atmosphere or back into the system since the blow off valve is redirecting all the air away from the engine. I would think that by the time that the recirculated air from the blow off valve got back to the point to be used by the engine at least one of the pistons would have fired rich, or that any needed air for a no throttle combustion could be sufficiently supplied from the standard air intake.
Thanks for your answers.
[/SIZE]
The other question is: can someone explain how directing the blow off valve output back into the intake before the turbo and after the sensor fixes the engine running rich problem? My understanding is that the mass airflow sensor takes a measurement of the air coming in so that the computer can calculate the proper fuel air mixture for the given throttle position. If the throttle is in the closed position, that should mean that a minimal amount of air would be needed for the engine combustion, so the computer should only allow that minimal amount of air in for combustion. In the case of a system with a blow off valve, this scenario would cause the blow off valve to activate and release the extra air, thus creating a situation where there isn't a proper amount of air left for the computer calculate fuel amount. I can see how this makes the engine run rich for a moment. What I don't understand is how putting that air back into the system before the turbo helps the running rich problem. Reason being.... The mass airflow sensor is still calculating air coming in from the outside and is unaware of the extra air being put back into the system via the blow off valve. I would think this would create the situation where there is more air in the system than the mass airflow sensor calculated. Maybe that doesn't matter because the computer only takes what it needs for combustion, so that long as there is not a shortage, things run smoothly. This still leaves me with the question of: as long as the blow off valve is open, how does it matter to engine combustion whether or not the extra compressed air is vented into the atmosphere or back into the system since the blow off valve is redirecting all the air away from the engine. I would think that by the time that the recirculated air from the blow off valve got back to the point to be used by the engine at least one of the pistons would have fired rich, or that any needed air for a no throttle combustion could be sufficiently supplied from the standard air intake.
Thanks for your answers.
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#133
The bov releases air from the boost tubes in between shifts. When you have increased boost pressure, there is more air in the system, and it helps to have a larger bov to get rid of that air.
The stock system recirculates the air back into the system and the ECU expects it, so it wouldn't run rich for a split second. The recirculated air pushes the air that's already in the system, that's why it wouldn't run rich at all.
If that doesn't make any sense let me know, thanks!
The stock system recirculates the air back into the system and the ECU expects it, so it wouldn't run rich for a split second. The recirculated air pushes the air that's already in the system, that's why it wouldn't run rich at all.
If that doesn't make any sense let me know, thanks!
#134
I agree with the fact that the someone trying to get a BOV setup because of the noise is a bit, well...silly.
I am 20 years old and constantly hear people around me that I know that love the sound. Every so often I will hear contests and what not at the beach. Then I have friends, in their late twenties, early thirties with MINI's/BMWs and they have a slight bov sound and find that more pleasing than a loud barreling PSSHH. Nothing wrong with either option, but I think a lot is based on the age range as well, and there are exceptions, but everyone is entitled to what they want.
I have an ALTA CAI currently on mine. It is very audible! Just remove the stock intake system for the sound people, you will save more money and headaches in the long run. Plus, having a ALTA fiter or any other will most likely not void any warranty's, period. Its just a filter.
I just bought the AGS-R, however, and beside the many other reasons for purchasing one, it has ports for volume. So you can increase/decrease the sound anytime you want, from stock to full PSSHH. I realized that showing up for a job interview with a loud pshhhh would not be very professional! My .02.
Motor On!
Just my adivce since I been running the ALTA for almost a year now. Motor On!
I am 20 years old and constantly hear people around me that I know that love the sound. Every so often I will hear contests and what not at the beach. Then I have friends, in their late twenties, early thirties with MINI's/BMWs and they have a slight bov sound and find that more pleasing than a loud barreling PSSHH. Nothing wrong with either option, but I think a lot is based on the age range as well, and there are exceptions, but everyone is entitled to what they want.
I have an ALTA CAI currently on mine. It is very audible! Just remove the stock intake system for the sound people, you will save more money and headaches in the long run. Plus, having a ALTA fiter or any other will most likely not void any warranty's, period. Its just a filter.
I just bought the AGS-R, however, and beside the many other reasons for purchasing one, it has ports for volume. So you can increase/decrease the sound anytime you want, from stock to full PSSHH. I realized that showing up for a job interview with a loud pshhhh would not be very professional! My .02.
Motor On!
Just my adivce since I been running the ALTA for almost a year now. Motor On!
#135
Forge Blow Off Adaptor voiding warranty or service
I just recently installed a Forge Blow-Off adaptor on my mini. I'm just trying to figure out if it will void my service or warranty? Will I have to remove it every time I take my car to the dealer?
P.S. its sounding to sweet for me to want to take it off.
P.S. its sounding to sweet for me to want to take it off.
#136
They will not be able to know its there unless they put a load on the engine. Its not something that causes ANY engine issues. Know your rights, they have to prove that it caused damage to your car, however if you dont know better they can get away wtih voiding yoru warranty with just a simple Type-r sticker!
#140
#141
http://www.exhaustdepot.net/inbotuhakit.html
my next purchse you can even order the hks bov through them
#142
http://www.exhaustdepot.net/inbotuhakit.html
my next purchse you can even order the hks bov through them
my next purchse you can even order the hks bov through them
YOu can order it via me. I think its in teh descriptions. Ill even mount it on for you if you want. YOu need good snap ring pliars to install it.
#144
$375 for the pipe kit, $275 for the bov and the flange welded on the pipe.
Ive installed a few localy but i wanted feedback from some one who was not me.
MITEMINI was a great guine pig of mine (thanks lyle). He was the first person to do a full install on his own and was kind enough to offer me some feedback etc. He will have some really good pix up soon and with his impressions.
Ive installed a few localy but i wanted feedback from some one who was not me.
MITEMINI was a great guine pig of mine (thanks lyle). He was the first person to do a full install on his own and was kind enough to offer me some feedback etc. He will have some really good pix up soon and with his impressions.
#147
#149
I always tell peeps to leave the factory one in place because teh extra valve yields even better performance. HOwever if you put a forge and it vents it will sound funny with the HKS.
SOme peeps block off their surge valve fully justs o they get a louder BOV sound. booo!
#150
This is mainly srt4 stuff but its a good edumicational article i put together. Read bov 101 and the other 101 articles so you can learn how your car works.
http://www.exhaustdepot.net/srtese.html
http://www.exhaustdepot.net/srtese.html