This will be the first mod to my R56 mini. Does anyone have a preference of the Alta vs the Forge?

 

First mod to your R56 MINI...

I'd recommend an Intake+Exhaust combo...you're going to be disappointed with an IC.

But if you insist...I'd get the Forge. Just based on the name though...its well known and trusted in the performance tuning world.

 

Definitely a good mod, but after intake and exhaust in my opinion.....either way I have the ALTA one, for thousands of miles with no issues. Very nice piece which definitely helps especially after adding boost, and it looks really cool covering the entire lower grille. Perfect size and nice core.

 

Scott48, I've heard from some people that the larger IC actually drops some of the boost. Just wondering if you agree with this? Maybe the ECU covered some of the lost boost. I live in Little Rock and with the heat think the larger IC would be a big help.

 

Hi there! I have pondered the very same thing- if perhaps the bigger IC in any way could negatively affect boost or create slower spoiling..Etc
But from what I've learned from Adam and some of the really helpful people here on NAM, the bigger IC doesn't have more complicated piping to travel through, which would potentially slow things down, but really just more surface area to transfer more cool air to the intake charge as it flies through..
Hope that helps
My .02

 

A bigger ic did not negatively affect low end boost on my car. It has helped keep performance consistent in the warmer months. The stock intercooler is so tiny it is striking once out of the car.

 

Will you be coming to MITM-3 in Copper Mountain, CO., August 7 - 10? There will be a new R56 intercooling option from a new Vendor there worth waiting for!

Check out Mini's in the Mountains links on NAM, find Vendors, see Defenders of Speed (DoS). They will have a new CAI that will be an important 1st step consideration to proper intercooler fit in restricted space under the bonnet.

Don't settle quickly for less, some of this development has been happening in Tulsa, near you.

PM me for more details if you like.

Mike
(aka: the intercoolest)

 

Is it a W2A IC???? Cuz with that you might actually be onto something...

 

We are also testing our latest prototype intercooler: we installed it on a bone-stock MCS on Friday. We datalogged the car stock and now are datalogging it with the new intercooler. We should release information in the next few days. The first prototype is on our shop car, but we were about 1/4" narrow with our inlet and exhaust tubes, requiring very slight cutting of the front cowl piece. We decided to redo the cast end tanks to ensure that there are no modifications needed to the car. There's more information on our intercooler here:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=121416

 

Larger volume ICs CAN have a slight effect on boost levels, but only during the transients. There was a wonderful graph in European Car that showed this very effect. But it's small.

Better cooling WILL lower boost, the more the cooling, the more boost is lost. This isn't bad, this is good!To understand this, we have to look at where boost comes from.

Boost is simply the consiquence of forcing more air into the intake than the engine can digest. So the pressure rises to the point where a new equilibrium is found. This is the point at which the increased airflow into the head plus the increased backflow (leakage back past the turbo or SC, past the bypass or blow off valves, whatever) equals the increased delivery. All fine and good.

The heat comes from the compression of the air. Can't help it, it has to happen, and does.

So, as you cool the charge, it's volume decreases and it's "easier" for the head to digest. Since the same number of molecules can flow into the cylinder with a total volume that is lower, it takes less pressure to force them in!

But there are really two things going on here. One is volume based changes that increase the "fill time" of the pressurized intake path, and the other is tempurature based changes in gas volume. One is a transient effect, the other is always present.

Matt

 

I wish people would devote all this time, development, and research that they spend on intercoolers.....on figuring out software for this car.

Imagine the possibilities we'd have by now....

Oh, then we could actually put a larger intercooler to use maybe.....

 

intercoolers are pretty straight forward. Don't need any binary descriptons of bit loacations or checksums to get them to work (or not, depending on design).....

Heck, if the engine code is good, the MAF says how much goes in, and a good IC just increases that a bit.

Matt

 

Yea, but the amount of time and incredible knowledge people use to try and figure out which IC is better than the other...you think they could really use that knowledge to figure out something good like an ECU.

Sorry, it was mainly just me being a smart ***. I just love how IC's are discussed non-stop for 2 years and people "test" them to no end, when the results all seem pretty straight forward and simple to me.

**EDIT:

I know you've done extensive testing and I think that's great. Did not mean to come off as a jerk towards you and your work.

 

been around the block a couple of times.... But you make a couple assumptions...
1) That all the IC testing/discussions has actually achieved anything good..... and
2) That the same amount of effort on ECU hacking would have achieved anything good!

FWIW, Dinan has cracked the 335 and the 135... I think the issues are similar. GIAC has cracked the R56 "S" in the US as well. Rumor is that DimSport has done the R56 "S" in Europe as well, but that's just from reading between the lines in some other posts... But they have different engine management... No MAF sensor... Anyway, tunes for the R56 are here and more will probably be coming....

Matt

 

So true.

1) Not really...
2) Probably not!

!

Yea, Jan told me Dimsport released some maps for the Euro R56...so hopefully we are next!

 

Nope....the ALTA intercooler has a smaller pressure drop(1.5psi i think) than oem intercooler(like 2.5psi i think), and no added turbo lag. Definitely cools the boosted air better, thus making it a more dense charge of air.

 

Today I ordered my Forge fmic, I will let you know if there any difference in my dyno numbers.

 

Love my Forge IC!! very complete kit!

 

Notice any difference after installing the forge ??
Kit? - did you go with tubes too ?

Cheers

 

I just installed the Forge FMIC today. The butt dyno is happy and you can hear the turbo spooling up so much louder.