Hi all,

Im looking to buy an intercooler for my car and was instantly put off when I saw the prices! But then I looked on eBay and there are LOADS of univeral ones.
Ok the sizes might not be exactly right, they might be too big or too small, but am I right in saying that if you were to get some silicone tubing, you could adapt them to fit (regarding the inlet and outlet ports)

There is a thread on this on the forum but it died at the start of last year :(

I think we could save a fortune here if we found a universal intercooler that fit our mini's with minor alterations (no cutting etc) and just needed some custom hosing being made up.
Given that Alta / Forge want about 4-5 times the price of these universal ones, i think we could potentially save a lot of money

Has anyone tried a universal one, or does anyone have any dimensions of inlet diameters, the maximum width/height that will fit in the standard space for the I/C, and the thickness of the core of these other aftermarket ones etc

I saw this on eBay, from the picture it looks a bit big, but there are loads of these knocking around!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...id=p2759.l1259

 

I know you have a R56, I have a R53, but both use intercoolers. So this being said, there are many factors in changing out an I/C. While yes it must fit demensionally, this is one of the least factors to know if it will either help or hinder preformance. Pressure drop, air velocity and actual heat exchange are what you need to know. This has been gone around for years now on the R53, with pretty much the concensious being the stock works just fine. Be careful on using a I/C that has never been tested on a Mini.

 

Yeah, size isn't the only factor the matters for intercoolers... I would definitely be wary when trying out untested eBay components. You might end up spending a lot more money than you thought you would save.

 

FWIW - been doing some research since my initial post.

Seems the stock intercooler is 72cm long end to end but it has funny connections to the inlet and outlet tubes, so we would need a shorter IC and buy some silicone elbows to connect to the factory tubes locations

From my calculations, this is the kind of dimensions we want to be aiming for

Length (end to end, NOT core) 600-650max
Height - Not sure on this yet. I think the Forge/Alta one is around 200mm high, so ideally something between 150mm and 200mm, but maybe we could go higher, im not sure (yet)
Depth - stock one is 65mm deep. Alta one is stock depth all the way up, but the Forge one is "stepped" so it has a 83mm base and then it goes thinner to around 40mm (i think). So i think here, we could get away with being 65mm all the way up (which seems to be the average size for 'universal' intercoolers on eBay etc.)

So

650mm x 200mm x 65mm i think they are kind of the optimum dimensions we can fit in our intercooler bay. Like I said above, we might be able to go with higher intercoolers, but as of now I havent been able to find out how high the Forge/Alta one is and if they are at the "limit" or if there is space for more

Anyone else got any info?

JIMINNI - yeah I totally agree. However, the R56 has a TINY intercooler, nothing at all like the R53s which in all fairness wasnt much smaller than any of the aftermarket offerings... But with the R56 the intercooler is really small.
Agree with you on flow rates and heat exchange etc though, I would only get a good one, but for the time being dimensions are the most important thing to ensure that is actually fits without having to screw on the front of a WRX

Cheers

 

I think if you look over at the Helix intercooler thread you will get an inkling of the amount of engineering that goes into these aftermarket parts. Alta, M7, et. al., all went through the R&D on these, and that is all rolled into the price (along with what the market will bear, or course ). Unless you are pushing big HP numbers, none of these aftermarket parts are really "needs", they are "wants", so the stock may be your best bet until you get the funds for a part you are happy with. Good luck

 

Whilst all the above posts are true its completely impossible to compare R53 intercooler R&D to the front mounted R56 one. Yes alot of testing goes into manufacturer specific intercoolers however if you look at most japanese turbo cars that come with top mount intercoolers as standard the most common upgrade for these cars is a replica/universal ebay bought front mount intercooler. Yes this is mainly to move the intercooler out the way of the hot air coming from turbo and engine but they are also bought to flow more air and thus cool more.. Of course if you buy a massive intercooler for the R56 thats capable of flowing 600+bhp then its most likely going to have adverse effects on performance however if futureal33 finds a universal intercooler of right dimensions to fit and one that flows a max of 300-350bhp then it will be perfect for the job especially considering a universal intercooler is less than $180.

And especially more so when you consider how much the standard intercooler is holding the car back when your breaking past 250bhp. Not to mention the heat soak issue after hard driving making even the standard car lose power at the top so when your over 250bhp the standard intercooler just doesnt cut it and with a good universal one costing less than 1/5 the price of a respected tuner it makes alot of sense.. The universal intercoolers have been tried and tested on alot of FI cars here in the UK (im not sure about yourselves in the States) but as long as you pick one suited to your outputs it works very well!

If he finds one that is the same thickness as the standard intercooler but just taller hence more surface area then there wont be any adverse effects. Ive seen it on quite alot of turbod cars, from evos to skylines and yes although you can spend $1000 on an evo intercooler you can also spend less than $200 on a universal one with some custom plumbing and the gains are their.

Each to their own i guess though. If i didnt get such a great deal on my Forge intercooler (courtesy of futureal33) then i would have went the custom route.

 

coopman7, I was not trying to compare I/C's between the R53 and the R56. I know that is impossible. What I was getting at is, there is much to do in I/C development. You say

"if futureal33 finds a universal intercooler of right dimensions to fit and one that flows a max of 300-350bhp"

Thing is how would he know this if no one has ever dynoed it on a Mini? Then you say,

" if he finds one that is the same thickness as the standard intercooler but just taller hence more surface area then there wont be any adverse effects."

Going back to the R53, it was proven that just by the design of the leading edge of the fin's, that alone made a difference. And also the internal design of the passages made a difference. I was only saying that just because it "fit's and is larger" dosen't make it better .

 

Fair enough i must have misread you. However you now state about the shape of the fins on the R53 intercoolers being a key factor etc However all the front mount intercooler have no design difference except materials they are made from, size, shape etc etc so yes although the points you make are correct its not like the universal intercoolers have shark teeth stuck inside them to ruin smooth flow of air..For instance theres a well known maker of intercoolers that sell on ebay as 'universal' but all they are is exact copies of the well known and highly tested autobahn intercoolers, no difference except maybe the final finish isnt so polished but the gains are exactly the same replica versus autobahn. I know not all universal intercoolers will be of such good value however if you look they are there and theres ones to fit every car - its just more of a hassle having to measure everything and have special brackets welded on so it fits nicely.. Again im not saying 'any' universal intercooler but the 'right' one, i guess the right one depends on the buyer and how much they have researched into what they need. I did on my last japanese turbo car and the £800 front mount i had on the car (became a bit worn after many years of use) so i bought an autobahn replica for £200 and it kept my oil temps down at 75-80C under hard driving whereas the more expensive (but perfectly good) intercooler just couldnt cool things as much as the slightly thicker replica...Of course not specifically the mini but it never will be until someone takes the plunge and shows the results..

And your point of how do you know how much an intercooler will flow... How about asking if it does not state how much bhp its good for.. Most manufacturers state how much bhp their intercoolers are good for, not neccessarily on ebay but im sure if you ask and the person selling knows their stuff they will beable to tell you...These universal intercoolers arent built randomly, many are based on more expensive designs.

And the top mounted intercooler for the R53 no matter how much R&D you do will only be so good because its right ontop of the engine so heat soak is a huge factor (and yes it has cooling straight from scoop) however as with all the rally based cars which came with top mount intercoolers over the past 20 years, no matter how much you spent on an uprated intercooler, if you werent moving it from the engine bay then the benefits could only go so far..This is not the same as a front mounted R56 intercooler which is probably the smallest intercooler ive seen and for any turbo car with 250-300bhp they would never dream of such a small intercooler, no matter how great and smooth its internals are its too small to cool a large enough amount of air and theres plenty room down there to allow for a larger surface area and flow capacity at a bargain price if your up for the work involved

Bear in mind where we are from its like Zero degrees Celcius for half the year so larger surface area would help massively.And the fact the standard intercooler loses anywhere from 10-15bhp due to heat soak in those kind of temps shows its struggling (this was on a car with 220ishbhp@fly)

That all said i think Futureal33 has just got himself sorted with a Forge front mount for a great price!

 

Wow thats cold I would have thought at those temps heat soak would not be that bad? We avg. 32 degrees C = 90 degrees F. for half the year here in California, so I/C selection is major Glad to hear he got a good I/C

 

That thought crossed my mind half way through my post and i realised some of the temps you guys have to go through everyday not to mention the humidity is incredible. 32degreesC is like our summer max temp and it lasts for about a day

 

If your that interested in a DIY intercooler mate look at HKS intercooler parts catalogue, theres hundreds of different shapes and sizes to look at, and at the end of the day you know the core is made by HKS and not some crazed metal fabricator in his garden shed making a quick buck of ebay.

Save a lot of money thats for sure.

 

Hehe, yeah, try 105F with ultra humidity....

I live in South Texas, and the beach is five minutes away. These summers are nasty!

 

Hey, Im interested in those shark tooth intercoolers. Maybe I can add some sharks teath to my alta?

 

Take your intercooler off the car and then give it a couple decent smashes against a brick wall, refit and reap the rewards of the extra 50bhp it unleashes Its better than shark teeth!

 

if you can do this project with a diy section... i think you will convert a lot of non believers!

 

this is a good idea. figure out what space is available, take a look at core catalogs if you can weld (to put on end-tanks) or look at universals if you can't.

Mini developers admit that the IC on the R56 is less than optimal, it should be pretty easy to improve over what's there...

While you're at it, try to do some baffles so that air goes through the IC instead of around.

Matt

 

Just curious if anyone has found a suitable universal intercooler yet???
I have been looking, but haven't found it yet.

 

Meanwhile, someone (I'm not volunteering, no money. :D ) should buy one of these cheapo intercoolers that are scattered around ebay and see if there are actually any numbers in it..

 

The VW guys have kits with the cheaper cores, but at $599 for the Alta FMIC, I don't see you getting away with modifying the endtanks/pipe routing AND getting a quality core like the Alta piece for much less.