Do u need a tune for fuel injectors on a 07 turbo mini cooper? one of my friends said the ecu would adapt but we wanted to make sure.

 

Aftermarket Direct-Injection injectors that'd fit the Prince engine are available?

If you meant to ask about the Tritec [supercharged, not turbo] engine, then the answer is Yes; up to 440cc/min [compared to the 330cc/min stock injectors] the ECU will be within long term fuel trim range to adjust them, assuming their flow versus duty cycle is proportional to the stock injectors, otherwise you'll need an ECU tune.

 

I'm assuming you mean bigger fuel injectors. I'm not a technical guy, but I'm assuming regardless of how big the injectors are, if you are running a stock ECU it'll push the same amount of fuel the engine needs, or else it'll run rich and you'll lose performance.

Unless you going for a bigger turbo and some serious power (where you'll have to get a remapped ecu anyway), I don't see the benefit of getting larger injectors. I'm running many mods and high boost of my Evo 7 and I haven't changed the injectors.

 

Ah, good point MiniBAH; the R56 also runs closed loop WBO2, so fuel trim would happen almost immediately.

At the moment it doesn't appear anyone has figured out the flow rate of these direct injectors, however all injectors have a limit. I'm assuming that MiniBAH's Evo 7 isn't running at the limit of its injectors, whatever flow-rate they are. To make power you need fuel, so a larger injector is mandatory if you're making significantly more power than stock. The problem for the R56 is the direct injectors are still very new to aftermarket, so availability and cost will be highly prohibitive.

 

s3 or rs4 are direct fit

 

which ones did you use mtuning?

 

how much power would u gain from bigger fuel injectors w/o a tune

 

none.

 

And why are we talking to a guy with a Cobalt pos?

 

LMAO! I absolutely LOVE reading these threads. Keep up the work

 

This isn't a diesel. You gain no power but most likely lose economy if you were to "upgrade" to bigger injectors with no other supporting modifications. You would need a much larger turbo to necessitate larger injectors. I you had a larger turbo, you would have a custom tune. Which very few people make yet.

 

There is ZERO horsepower gain from larger injectors on a stock turbo car.
When you start maxing out your injectors, then you need bigger ones. No one has done that yet (show me proof mr 28rs man), and injectors alone will be a waste of money.

 

lol I agree...it gets better everyday.

 

Just a little background as to how fuel injectors work with the ECU to explain why simply adding larger injectors with no other changes won't help performance.

Injectors can flow a certain amount of fuel when they're "on and spraying" - this is the "330 cc per minute" or "440 cc per minute" numbers you see.

But the engine doesn't always need that much fuel, so the ECU varies the injectors' "duty cycle" (basically, what percentage of the time during the injection cycle the injectors are actually "on"). So, with 330cc injectors, if the cylinder only needs 165 cc of fuel per minute at a particular instant, the ECU sets the duty cycle to 50% on/50% off. If the cylinder needs 300 cc of fuel per minute, the ECU sets the duty cycle at 91% on/9% off. (The ECU doesn't really use a "lookup table" to find the appropriate duty cycle during closed-loop operation, though - it's really just monitoring the exhaust sensors and adjusting the duty cycle as needed)

So if you install larger injectors (like 440cc) without changing anything in the ECU, the injectors will just flow 33% more fuel for any given duty cycle. For example, the 50% duty cycle mentioned above would flow 220 cc/min, rather than the 165cc/min the stock injectors provided.

The ECU will realize that the mixture is now too rich and adjust the long-term fuel trim to dial out the excess fuel by reducing the duty cycle below the normal value. (I believe the long-term trim can dial out up to about 30% or so, which is why 440cc is as big as you can go without tuning the ECU.)

So while larger fuel injectors might last longer, since they'll be operating at a lower duty cycle compared to stock injectors, they won't give you any more power. In order to make more power, you actually have to re-program the ECU so that it gives the engine more or less fuel under the appropriate conditions. Bigger injectors with an untuned ECU results in the same amount of fuel being provided to the engine as with stock injectors - the injectors' duty cycle will just be lower.

 

I don't think this subforum should (caled modifications any more)
Between turning a screw for more horse ..fuel intectots..tunes right around the corner..for last year...and gt28rs's...
Maybe we should call the forum daily mini jokes...

 

Yeah, my Evo 7 is running a PnP ECU tuned for stock injectors. You can make up to 400hp on stock injectors and turbo on the evo

 

This is conjecture at best. I don't think theres going to be a real difference in injector life. Fuel contaminants and ethanol content probably matter to the life of the injector a good bit more than a duty cycle difference.

But I'm splitting hairs, the rest of your post was pretty much spot on.
I'm running 1200cc injectors in my other car, because it needs it, not because I think they'll help anything.

 

I agree totally - that's why I said "might" in order to at least acknowledge the theoretical possibility that the lower duty cycle could prolong injector life. I'm not claiming that it's an actual realized benefit.

I haven't ever had an injector fail on me, so I don't know what their usual failure mode is - do they just get worn to the point where they're no longer atomizing the fuel properly, or does the solenoid in the injector actually fail? If it's the latter, then going with a lower duty cycle might help injector life.

 

In my experience they just die. They're electrical components so its usually working or not.

 

my cars faster than urs. lol


and so can my friend run JCW on stock ecu? he was looking to replace the turbine with the one of an audi he said then tune it. but until then he wants to put the injectors on.

and do u need to tune for ported head?

 

Still confused why your friend just doesn't post for himself?

It'd be a whole lot easier

 

he doesnt understand the forum lol

 

And you do...........

 

but it's interesting to see how history repeats itself. With early fuel injection, one of the fast and easy hacks before people cracked the ECU was to swap MAF sensors and injectors so that they could run the stock ECU yet get more fuel for modded engines. Direct Injection is new, but more and more cars are coming out with it, so there will be more and more choices of what injectors one can get for creative swaps.
Matt

 

His car is faster, but ours have better resale and a company that dosen't need government help to maintain factory warranty because they went bankrupt (no offense to gm or you) lmao

I also don't understand why your friend just dosent get on the forum