Well its been on since I installed it. It comes on now and beeps at me on the tach, and stays on in the speedo area. How long does it take for AutoZone to scan these sort of things?

 

Should be just a few minutes. Other stores can do it too, so don't think you only have to go to AutoZone.

Nice speaking to you on the phone this morning. Keep me posted!

 

K guys, so the check engine light went away it looks like it banked in the system.

I just got back from AutoZone and speaking with Adam as well (who is an AWESOME guy for taking time out on his weekend to speak!!!)

I have an error P0420 for the catalyst. Adam has been awesome with all this and is going to send me the O2 spacers on Monday

Even with this (I get scared when that light comes on) lol, I am AMAZED at the product that they sell. My car feels 10x faster, and sounds a million times better

 

Adam, whatever you did in the beginning when you produced them in early 08, do it again! I have yet to receive a CEL from my Turboback system, its been on for 7500 miles!

Hope everything goes well...where can one purchase a quality scan gauge?

 

HAHAHAH! Well we haven't changed much. Added more catalyst trace metals to the cat, but the OEM software changed a bit. So if you don't HAVE to get the update at the dealer, DON'T! Earlier cars have a wider tolerance, vs. the later programming.

There are quite a few good tools. But be sure to get one that is Can-BUS compatible as if it isn't, it won't work on the R56.

Chat soon!

 

Interesting! Thanks for the warning now though, as my car went in few days ago! NOOOOOOOOO... I hope they didn't do any updates...I'll call tomorrow and have them check in the computer, it doesn't say they did on the tech sheet they gave me...

 

No problem! Always happy to help! I will have Chris send out the spacers to you tomorrow and if needed ring me when you get them if you have questions on how to install them.

Chat soon!

 

or they could have just fixed this problem with a better functioning Cat a year & a half ago.

 

True

 

The catalyst is ok tested repeatedly by us and the mfr to meet EPA and CARB standards. What changed is the OEM variable range for rear O2 sensor voltage based on primary. Combined with fuel, boost, altitude and other factors, some clients can and will get P0420 code. Again some spacing of the sensors can help resolve this to some degree. BUT moving them a ton (like some other mfr's has done) can affect OEM fine tuning at cruise due to a highly modified signal. No one wants to see a decrease in fuel economy, or other issues.

My concern is that some feel think we take any issues lightly. Nothing could be farther from the truth. As you and I have discussed recently off forum we had a hard time meeting on a common ground and again my public apologies. But that should not be taken as a resistance to fixing any known issues with ANY ALTA products.

Hope that clarifies to some reading this as new info.

Thanks again everyone! Enjoy the balance of your Sunday!

 

I am still impressed, regardless of a CEL. I dont expect everything in cars to be perfect. Besides, I am modifying something that didnt originally come on the car, of course there are risks! haha

Anyways, I just finished removing the mid section with the resonator to pound out (seems like the side of my fist was the best) to stop the rattling. It sounds MUCH better now

 

Come on Adam, cut the damage control BS.
placement of the 1st o2 sensor/AFR sensor affects the tuning of the engine, the 2nd o2 tells the ecm if the cat is working. While I was running your POS I told you repeatedly that the cat was cooling off at cruise and not working. You can see this by monitoring/datalogging the o2 sensors. I'm not a weekend hobbiest when it comes to diagnosing emissions, I'm an ASE master tech w/ advanced engine performance certs, emissions training, experience fabbings, and a plethora of diagnostic tools.

Your cat itself may be functional, but it's TOO free flowing for the 1.6L lean burning R56 engine to fire off properly and stay functioning. If you used the same cat on a bigger engine or on a heavier car pumping out more, it would likely work fine.

Adding a spacer simply shrouds part of the o2 sensor tricking into seeing only a fraction of the unburnt fuel passing by.
Any of you with a scope and the Alta downpipe can watch the 2 sensors and see the mirrored signal for youself.
Adam, I'm not so much angry about the run around you & your staff gave me for 6 months & 70+ pms/phonecalls/emails, I'm annoyed that you continue pushing this BS about it working.

Don't blame the Mini, little shops like Exhaust Depot have managed to create a functional high flow downpipe without tripping CEL's, even if they aren't as pretty as Altas.

btw, common ground, was nothing more than letting me return a defective turbo-back system.

 

Never questioned your "experience", and the cooling off theory isn't applicable here. Spacing the sensor, plumbing size, catalyst size and composition etc. all work together. I seriously resent the insinuation that the product is poorly designed and tested. We aren't some fly by night company without testing methods and procedures.

I never "blamed the MINI" for anything! What you obviously DON'T and CAN'T see is the obvious changes to OEM ECU programming and how it affects cruise fuel efficiency, boost levels, etc. etc. We do and have seen those things. With those types of changes it can interfere with universal CEL resistance. Throwing a restrictive catalyst into the DP would cover that concern, but would also reduce HP gains. Also the P0420 code will auto-reset and store in all years and models if left in play. I that may also contribute to the inconsistencies with reports of this problem.

At the end of the day, you aren't happy and have moved on. I guess I will do the same thing.

HAPPY MOTORING EVERYONE!

 

Hey guys,

Figured I would try and get some assistance with this and see whats going on.

Car has been running AWESOME and sounding equally as awesome with the turboback installed.

I was driving home from work today and the CEL came on again. I wasnt sure why so I ran to AutoZone on the way home to see what it was. It was a P2096 error (came up twice in the scanner).

From what I have searched for on NAM I get "post cat fuel trim to lean bank 1". That sounds about right from what the scanner said.

What exactly can this be caused by? The only mod I have is the turboback from ALTA. Before blaming it on the product, could it be a bad O2 sensor possibly? Is it ok to drive my car to work still? lol

 

As I mentioned during our cell phone convo, it is an odd code regardless. The fact that it occurred after installation is certainly reason to suspect the new turbo back. I will do some additional research. (as I also mentioned can I get your e-mail addy so I can get my tech guys in the loop too. I am at home today ill, but will likely be back in the office tomorrow.)

The O2 sensor is generally very rugged, but they can become damaged during removal and installation. Again, this isn't a code I have seen before.

If the car is running fine, then you are a-ok! The times to be concerned is then the half/engine check lamp comes on and at the same time power will be reduced. Even then the car is protecting itself.

Hope that makes you feel better! Have a great night!

 

Did you install an o2 sensor spacer ? In the Subaru world it's common to cause this fault. If you MAF sensor was fouled with oil (like after installing an oiled cotton or foam filter) it could throw your AFR off as well.
Could also be an exhaust leak, loose/poor connection, bad o2 sensor, bad cat....

 

hahah @ that :D.

Well, I havent done anything on the intake side at all. The only thing is the turboback. Its just weird that I have gone thru almost the entire tank of gas and then suddenly it threw this.

I dont hear/feel any exhaust leaks, but if it was a leak to cause this issue would it have to be somewhere between the turbo and the 2nd O2 sensor?

 

Ya, it'd have to be before the o2 sensor, so likely at the turbo gasket, but as long as you got those nuts tight, it's unlikely. Emissions faults like the p2096 require multiple (specific) drive cycles before they'll actually trip the check engine light, cruising around town isn't always enough.

 

Intersting. Well I torque'd to 20 ft lbs as the alta instructions said. Although i thought about taking the heat shield off and making sure that they are tight still.

 

Also is the P2096 code something that would damage engine internals when driven this way, or after the car cycles it just caches this fault?

 

I have had the same code 2-3 times P2096 with the alta oval tip turbo back.
Alta also told me they had never seen this code. I did install their intake and
hot side boost tubes at he same time.

 

Alright, comments revolving around the ALTA R56 downpipes are getting a little out of control and I think we need to revisit some of the concerns people have.

Lets start with going back a couple years to 07. We got our R56 and built a catback and a downpipe for it, tested it, PROVED it (which no one else has really done to this day, except us on multiple occasions) then brought it to market. We had great success being the first with a 3” exhaust and great success with the HP and gains it made.

Our cat we used in our initial test is an off the shelf metallic converter. This worked very well on our car for a long time, but for production we decided to go with a special version of the cat that had about 2 times the amount of catalyst loaded on the core. This ensures that the cat will last longer than normal. This also adds huge cost to part, but we felt was worth it to ensure the cat lasted as long as possible.

Beginning of last year we started seeing CEL problems and started trying to figure it out. The obvious thing was the cat. There were customers we sent replacements out to, and it it only solved the problem for a week or so. We even had a customer (NITRO) we sent a couple to with no success. In sending these to him he found the hanger had cracked and was causing an exhaust leak. We thought this could be the problem. But after fixing this, it still got a PO420 code. We even had a couple of locals we did the same thing for hoping this would solve the CEL. After this, we decided to stop selling the downpipe completely until the problems were resolved. We sent off a few parts to the cat manufacturer (Carsound) to be tested. After weeks and weeks and weeks (some of you may remember this) they came back with their cat was ok.

After further researching we figure out it was an issue with an ECU reflash/ year of car. This is why our 07 R56 and early 08 R56 we had, NEVER had problems. Basically if you had an early 08 or any model that had the ECU reflash done it was going to have the PO420 code. It seemed like Mini narrowed up the parameters that say when the cat goes bad. At the time we had a mid year 08 R56 (one of 7 we have owned over the last 2 years) with the CEL problem and we tested an 02 sensor extender on it. We tried one then 2 and the CEL went away. So we offered this to a few customers with about 50% success rate. Later on as we had a few more R56’s we had the CEL problem no matter what we did.

Knowing that we have an ECU reflash on the way that WILL fix this problem, we decided to start selling the downpipe again (about a 4-5 month of downtime). We offered to customers with the CEL problems a large discount on this future product knowing it would get rid of the CEL, a return on the downpipe or the 02 sensor extenders. We thought this was an acceptable offer (as well as nearly every customer), and because the PO420 code doesn’t effect performance or warranty on the car, there was no concern driving around with it.

That along with a very important note on our site (basically saying your ALTA R56 DP will throw a CEL), we felt comfortable selling the part again. Because of the way we were selling it (telling people it will throw a CEL no matter what) we were also accepting of the fact, we would be selling a lot less. But not a big deal as eventually the ECU reflash product would be out and sales would pick back up.

So where we are today is that people are either forgetting that the ALTA DP will throw a CEL at some point, or we have started slipping with how we are selling the part. Really is us not being super proactive about how its sold. To help that out, we moved the special note about our DP throwing a CEL to the front page on the DP. This along with our customer service reps being reeducated on the CEL problem, I think we have solved the problem as best we can.

HOW CAN WE SOLVE THE PROBLEM!

I know some are thinking ALTA can solve the problem by looking at other people’s downpipes and figuring out why theirs doesn’t throw CEL’s. Its not a mystery why some systems are CEL free. There are 2 big factors that we could change to fix it, but we feel its not worth it. The first and easiest is to change the cat to a ceramic type cat. The “brick” in these cats have more Cells per inch, which means they clean the exhaust better, but also are much more restrictive. Or a different more restrictive side by side dual cat system. The problem with a dual cat system (like some make), is aligning the top and bottom cat so the cells in each “brick” line up. If they are even slightly rotated you just created even more restriction, which is bad for performance, but good for a no CEL situation. I can guarantee the twin cats are not lined up as this would be almost impossible to do.

The second factor is tubing size. WE could make the entire downpipe in 2.5” tubing which will also help with the CEL. But again, restriction. Our downpipe makes the HP it does, with the cat it has. We have proven this over and over again to be in the neighborhood of about 12WHP on a car with our 3” catback already installed. So lets say we add the more restrictive cat (weather ceramic or dual cat), that 12WHP could now be cut down 25%. Then lets say we step down to 2.5” tubing, and this is going to drop another 25% or more. While these are just educated guesses they are pretty reasonable. Now our downpipe would perform like others and make somewhere in the 5WHP range. Then is becomes a simple matter $/HP. For between $700-$800 dollars you get a part that makes maybe 5HP??? And is a complete PITA to install!

I’ll even throw out there that the 12WHP is with the front piece and rear piece together. IF both of those make 12WHP how much of that is actually from the front section……..

This is why we choose to keep DP the way it is. It makes decent Wheel HP, you can easily feel the difference with your butt dyno, and with our CEL warning in place, the customer can decide weather or not its worth the proven 12WHP. If the customer is concerned about the CEL, then we suggest to stick with the OEM downpipe and do just our catback exhaust.

Remember our downpipe results are with a 3” catback in place, not by them selves. If we made a DP that fit in place of the OEM DP, its not going to make even 12WHP it will be less by quite a bit. In the end, I may be killing some of the sales of the part (until our ECU flash is done) but we want to show we are not trying to pull a fast one on customers, or hide the fact our DP throws a CEL. It does, and there isn’t much we can reasonably do with out making the part even more expensive, or make it more restrictive and make less HP.

I am sorry for the long response but I felt it was needed to help clear up the ALTA DP concerns and also needed to re-educate customers about the ALTA DP and the fact it most likely will throw a CEL. If anyone has questions, give us a ring or email or IM or stop on by.

 

So I got my O2 sensor spacers today and spoke with Adam.

I wanted to start off by thanking Adam personally. People may bash on his product but its DAMN good quality. I love it regardless. And he has been amazing as a person and company CEO to give me his personal PCS phone to call him if I had a question (lets just hope Im not bugging him) lol.

Anyways. I was speaking with Adam and as I was speaking to him, I noticed that my O2 sensor had a few small "dings" in it from me accidentally banging it up when I was tightening it back up into the new DP....do you think these could have broken it?

 

Thanks Jeff,
That's the sort of straight forward honesty completely lacking from Adams posts. One small point, you never sent me multiple downpipes, nor did I ever have a cracked hanger, must have been someone else. I had to switch back & forth from your DP to the stock one so the dealer would look at my car for software updates and to verify it was a faulty catalyst and not bad/damaged sensors. When you did finally accept an RMA for my downpipe, you wouldn't take back or exchange the rest of the turbo-back system, leaving me with a cat-back I really despise.

 

That makes alot more sense, both Adam and i were thinking of a different customer then. This other customer was not upset in the end which you were, which confused us. But now makes more sense.

I don't think Adam or I have ever fibbed about the part and that info i posted above. I have repeated that (as well as Adam) to many customers over the last year. I just think we took it for granted that everyone understood how the DP was sold.

Either way, i think as long as others read that info and the fact we moved the warning to the front of the DP page i think this will help alot. And i will even put a blurb in our Q&A section.

Gilboyto,
Keep us posted as to what you find after the install.