Just ordered from Nick at NAMotorsports.net. Again, Nick is one of the most helpful vendors here on NAM and in the MINI community. He always does what he can to get you the best deal and he pulled through again! Highly reccomend dealing with him and NM Engineering.

201.00 after CT tax for the pipe. Yes, the pipe is a bit pricey to begin with, but its a great piece and Nick was able to get 40 dollars off msrp. Hard pipe, excellent desgin. Will post install pictures, it will get here tomorrow and I will most likely install tomorrow night!

Keep posted!


PS: Now selling a ALTA IC Boost Tube

 

Good job Steve!

Hard pipe should make a difference, lets us know the results!

 

I'm waiting until they come out with the second one so I can buy both of them at the same time.

 

will do! I'm siked...

 

Good idea, however, it may not be awhile and the RMW tune is going to be on the car sooner rather than later. I'm going to also buy Hectors throttle body hard pipe so it will complete the kit. I want to be prepared as best as possible.

So in that case, I'll eventually have the throttle body ALTA tube for sale also.

 

Whats up man? post some pics asap so we can see your newest performance toy :D

 

for nick.

 

Of course! Pictures and all.

Nick is one of the nicest guys and one of the best vendors on this forum!

 

I just installed mine today. I notice a big diff from my alta, and the forge. Both non hard tubes. the diff is after a few when its hot it still is tight. i never thought they would give so much. but if I can feel it it must have.

 

Good to know. Yea, this is the much more efficient route!

 

in for pics

 

Installed the pipe today. Instantly noticed a smoother delivery of power, and much more of it! The butt dyno was deff feeling more torque! Very pleased with my purchase and would highly recommend this setup.

The edges of the pipe are flared to help ensure the rubber connections stay firmly connected when closed. The hose clamps are even stronger and better designed than my previous ALTA system clamps were. However, they are not T-bolt and that would be my only gripe. They look like the regular worm clamps, but have this bump in it, as if it were the next step up as far as clamps go. I'm not sure, some one with more knowledge on this can clear it up for me what type these are. However, I did have one on hand at my shop, and intend to replace them all once my mech gets more in. The best thing is that no part of this system touches or hits anything either, so no rattles, noises, or fitment issues!

All in all, this system is great!

Pictures to go up tomorrow...

 

Kinda crappy pictures, but its hard to get in there!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/0dtmini...7617420519251/

 

After driving around today, I must say that this pipe is redick. If all hard pipes make this much of an improvement, I want them all. So much more trq is layed down with this simple replacement...

 

I haven't bought into this yet, however, maybe you can explaine it so I will. But, I just can't believe there would be that much more torque over the alta you had. With that small of diameter of the tube and relatively short length (especially given the hardtube only looks to be 15-18" long), I just don't see the alta pipe expanding that much more to make the big difference you are expierincing. Could there we a little placebo effect taking place? If not, please enlighten me.

ps. the other issue is the constriction coming out of the discharge tube of the intercooler. there is a nasty bend/constriction in that plastic tubing that I think would limit everything.

 

I just did the same switch and I think that the rubber pipes be it Alta, or Forge or M7 or whomever expand when hot and under heavy boost. I imagine it is the middle of the pipe expanding more than the ends. So a hard pipe wont expand at all. There by more boost. Especially when warmed up on a hot day.

 

Not to be pokey.

The ALTA (and others in silicone) don't swell under boost. (if so VERY minimal) as they are 5-6 ply silicone. With mesh material in the middle for added strength they just don't expand.

If your argument was true, the the NM Eng piece would have the same problem. It has silicone end pieces. Wouldn't those expand?

My point is this. For a drop in boost, the part in question would have to swell near infinitely like a balloon. Not until the entire balloon is full would boost pressure resume normal. BUT it would still maintain the preset amount of X lbs. NONE of these tubes, metal, or silicone will have ANY affect on boost pressure.

These types of pipes gain power from the decrease in restriction vs. OEM, and internal diameter to pass larger volumes of boost pressure.

again, NO drop in boost pressure with ANY of these systems!

 

Ya I'm not going to argue with you. But on the point of the NM expanding also because of the couplers. That was why I was making the point about the middle of a longer pipe expanding. I don't think shorter pipes or even a long pipe near the corners or edge would expand. However in the center section it may have more expansion than in the ends or corners. Thats what I was thinking at least.

 

Adam, this thread was not for you to come in and defend your product. Point is when people said they felt a huge HP gain off your "CAI", when did you pop in and say actually people, heat soak is killing that filter, thus eliminating its purpose so don't buy it?

I honestly feel a difference with this pipe, not huge and not hp gains either, it feels like I have more torque in the low to mid range of the rpm band.

Plus, the model IC pipe I have is an late 07 and does not have a mesh center part in it. I am going to be getting Jan's tune, and as you know, whether you say so or not, a hard pipe setup is a safer, more reliable way to go.

Adam, under WOT at the track, your silicone tube bust off a buddy of mine's jcw stage 1. This same thing happened to me yesterday. The NM still may have rubber ends, but the clamps holding it on are not the cheap hose clamps you sold with your kit. I'll show you mine that bust into three pieces yesterday on a easy drive home if you want. All in all, I am much happier with the customer service and the product I received. For near the same price I paid for a silicone, I got a better pipe setup.

Here's my question to you Adam: Would you use silicone on your bigger turbo setup or would you create some sort of hard pipe? Honestly...

 

whoa, I say we ease up on Adam a bit. How could you blame him for defending his product. Unfortanetly butt dyno's can be deceiving, especially when we get a new product and have wishful thinking. I'm still not sold a hard pipe is that much better. If we are only runnning like 15 lbs of pressure, that really doesn't seem that much to cause distortion, even if hot. Am I way off base here?

 

PoktRokt - You are not off base, I have nothing against you or your opinions, you are entitled like us all. I am sharing mine with you and why I feel its wrong for Adam to do this. I agree placebo effects and butt dynos are decieving. However, NM Eng has no spokesman on NAM nor did I buy this pipe because everyone else was. No one told me too, I saw it and thought about it, did my research and decided its the better option.

ALTA on the other hand, constantly is on here telling you they offer the best products ever. Everyone jumps on because of them saying so. Now, thats a much bigger placebo effect, imo, having ALTA always say our products do this and that and you will see gains, etc. Now ask ALTA customers, and you will get mixed results.

Just because Adam comes in and defends his product in a nice way doesn't mean its right. I was explaining my experience with a product that has nothing to do with him or ALTA. He can voice his opinion if he wants, but he likes to make people believe his products are better so you buy ALTA, which with my experience with ALTA started great, but over time has deteriorated.

Here's a few things - ALTA makes decent products with poor customer service. Both parts I bought from NM, I had a great product with great customer service. He may PM you and try and help, but somewhere between the lines, your issue is lost and you are stuck waiting. This has happened to me on a couple of occasions and many times to others in the forum. I'm sick of dealing with it, its just time consuming and aggravating.

Lets see if he replies and offers a replacement IC tube that has mesh in it like he said he did for other customers. Ask him why he started putting mesh in the tubes to begin with. The Unichip was spiking at 21psi and boost tubes were failing left and right. Did you know that?

I'm going to be getting the RMW tune. This tune runs higher boost, more consistently throughout the rpm band. I don't want a silicone hose with a cheap clamp to come flying off the turbo during one of my track days during WOT. I want security, safety, and the best possible setup for these reasons and like I said, the Hard Pipes are the way to go in my case.

If you are running a stock setup and just do it for looks and what not, okay, go with his setup, forge, or m7. However, your stock pipes are perfectly fine for normal/spirited driving, no need to buy ALTA's pipes. Don't let the marketing machine fool you into thinking a person looking to get performance needs silicone pipes. They help like I said, but everyday driving, not needed and I ran these pipes for a year so I do have a pretty good idea.

Again, your decision is yours to make, just make educated ones. I didn't in the beginning and wasted a lot of money. I'm way more conscious now.

END RANT

 

So, if I want which ever of the 2 tunes RMW or Alta I'm going to have to get hard boost tubes? I have the mods in my signature, but as soon as I get the money I'm going to install the downpipe that has been sitting in my bedroom since January. I'm also going to assume that I need a new TIH since I got mine in Nov. 07. I think that was before they redid them so they wouldn't collapse.

 

No you dont have to get hard tubes. My personal experience has let me to the decision that if a hard tube is available I will get that even if it is a little more. But a soft tube will work will it work as well or not? thats why we are here in this thred. Unless you have a dyno and check it one by one you will never know.

 

well said dtsoccer6, we do all have our separate opinions. I respect yours as well (group hug). If you have done separte research on the subject that has directed you towards the hard tubes than so be it. I think we should give ALta some credit as a reputable car tunning/modding company that also does lots of research and testing to come up with good products as well. I think they got a bad apple in the Unichip and maybe didn't deal with the fall out the best they could, but that's just what I read. no personal involvement with that. There seems to be a lot of ALta bashing lately from people taking their personal frustratons with the company and posting them on public forums. Is this right? I'm not too sure. I've only been on here about 6 months (everyday for 6 months though ) so I haven't seen a lot of promotion by Alta. Usually he is just answering questions, inserting his 2cents, or defending his product. ANYWAYS, lets move on in this thread and get more opinions on the hard tube/soft tube question. My question is - are the boost pressures even high enough to make a difference?

 

dtsoccer6: I am NOT trying to poo poo the hard pipe kit that you got. Seriously, it is a free world, competition is good for any business and this is no exception.

My concern was a post was made that was factually in error. The tubes don't swell to any degree that is appreciable. The silicone is smooth on the inside, reduces transitional turbulence and (assuming trimmed to the proper length and it feel that the clients that have had a problem with them popping off is 100% our fault. We have adjusted the trim fixture accordingly.) makes the HP results as shown in our dyno plots and DOES NOT REDUCE boost pressure.

There is no "placebo" effect with any product we make that we also show a dyno result for. The intake is no exception. We dyno hood shut not open. As I have stated in multiple other threads (search if you want) that we too were surprised by the results, but the air flow characteristics of the OEM fresh air tube, scoop and under car currents bathe the filter area in cool air. The reduction in air box and filter restriction combined to make a repeatable result. My opinion still stands that a dyno doesn't lie if tested in a proper manner.

That was essentially it. If we have ever failed you on a customer service issue, lets take that to PM's and you can then post the results if you choose. I WANT TO HELP ANYONE who wants help. We make mistakes, to error is human no matter how much we attempt to reduce it. So if something has slipped in our relationship in recent, PLEASE let me know! I can't fix what I don't know about.

Having said that I have no issue backing out of this thread if you feel like I was attacking another product. But nothing is farther from the truth. Your new part is just great! Should make near identical gains to any of the other popular options. Aluminum tubes with 90 deg. ends is less expensive to make than a complete silicone replacement. But if you are happy, I AM TRULY happy! Why wouldn't I be? I am enthusiast first, parts mfr. second. True statement ask anyone who knows me!

Have a GREAT weekend!