hey guys so i've been reading up on some fuel system cleaners for the carbon build up that some of us r56 owners are having....and was deciding between, red line, seafoam, and techron fuel system cleaner since autozone, kragen, or pepboys didn't have bg...and was searching online to which one worked best....but then i came across this video on youtube.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIWDOAc49uw never heard of 4power and was wondering if anyone has tried it and got any real results? i don't want to pay up for the carbon flush by mini services...so any suggestions or real results from any of those fuel system cleaners post up thanks

 

I wonder what all these fuel system cleaner tricks do for the life of catalytic converters...


...Well I guess you've got less than a few choices if the motor isnt running right.

 

I know on a bottle of Chevron Techron it says that it won't affect catalytic converter life. Doesn't matter much to us guys without cats ha ha

 

You can't use a fuel tank additive to help with the carbon build up on the intake valves. The engine is a direct injection, thus the fuel does not enter the intake track at all. You need to use something that you can put in the intake track.

 

+1

 

IMO a catch can would help 2nd gen cars from my understanding of the system. Heck, it is simpler to prevent build-up and carbon than removing it.

 

^^What he said

 

isn't that what seafoam does? put 1/3 crankcase(before oil change), 1/3 fuel tank, 1/3 intake track (PVC hose)? but is there any real proof that these cleaners do work in removing all that gunk with photos or what not...doesn't have to be mini but i want to see real before and after proof pics. of inside the engine that it works and not from what advertisement pictures show

seafoam- kinda skeptical since i believe that when you put it through the pvc hose it just causes it to burn and make smoke and thats it...and that you get that placebo effect that it works...iduno i could be wrong unless there's real evidence besides advertisement evidence

techron- i know that it doesn't remove carbon build up and is just a detergent to help prevent it...i use to use this before on my 89 vw gti after i had the engine rebuilt and cleaned out...and it did what it was suppose to do (prevent the build up)...no wonder gm, bmw, and volvo sell it but as their own (but removing carbon build up...never heard of that)

redline si1- just the same as techron but supposedly better from what i've heard

bg44k- supposedly liquid gold not what i've seen from the video test lol


i didn't bother to use techron for our new minis since i've been using top tier gas... i.e. chevron 91 octane here in so cal area that already has a cleaning detergent in its gas to prevent the carbon build up (which i believe is techron haha)...it was just suprising to me after taking my car in for its routinely maintenance check up they say i have massive carbon build up and that i need to get a carbon flush that isn't covered under warranty and was 500+ to do it

i also asked them to take me to the back where the technicians were and show me proof but that never happened since its a liability if something happened to me....

thats why i ask if those cleaners really do remove carbon build up that way it'll be cheaper for me to do it myself....(knowing that techron prevents build up but removes? never heard of that and want to see proof)

 

You are partly right.....the only cleaner with the capabilities of cleaning the intakes is the Seafoam when placed in the intake . It will do nothing when only used in the crankcase or gas tank. And it really does work, been using it for about 30 years in all of my gas engine toys.

None of the fuel additives are going to solve this problem or even help with maintenance. And by using the Chevron you are getting the benefit of the Techron and keeping the injectors and combustion chamber clean.

Because your car is a direct injection (the fuel injectors are in the combustion chamber) there is no fuel going past the intake valve to help with cleaning it. The PCV valve line is placed in the intake track, thus this is causing the carbon build-up on the backside of the intake valve.

There are several threads about using Seafoam and an oil catch can install around here.

 

How did they determine that? During routine maintenance I don't think they normally take anything apart that would allow them to check. And what exactly do they do for the $500 "carbon flush"'?

 

They either run SeaFoam through it...exactly as we are doing...

Or sometimes they actually will take off the intake manifold and clean it the intake ports and top of the valves by hand with a brush and a solvent...

 

"they actually will take off the intake manifold and clean it the intake ports and top of the valves by hand with a brush and a solvent..."

This is what I would like to do. I have used Lucas injector cleaner here and there only because a friend commented on it. I am not even certain if it does anything worthwhile.

I was checking out the Conklin site and their products seem to be worth looking into. I just can't figure out which one I would need and what the actual difference is between the Conditioner ($9.50) and the fuel system cleaner ($10.15)---- (besides a .65 cent difference)

http://www.conklin.com/catalog/prod_info.asp?prfID=760

http://www.conklin.com/catalog/prod_info.asp?prfID=1121

Is there a "how to" for taking the manifold off and cleaning it? Also, what kind of solvent should be used?

 

Will one of those fiberoptic cameras help to examine the valves without removing the intake manifold? I just saw this one in Griot's. I really need one to clean my earwax.

 

Nope. To see the carbon on the back of the valves you would have to go through the intake side and not only is the conduit not long enough, you would have no way to snake it to the right place.

That is made to look inside the cylinder accessed though the plug hole. It is almost impossible to see even the valve faces doing that as it looks down not back up at the valves.

I too have been intrigued by these scopes but the more I think about them the more I think that they are not as helpful as they first appear.

Rich

 

Yeah....the techs use a long mirror to look back there while they clean. Honestly though, having them describe to me what they do, it sounds like a royal pain in the ***.

That's why they've switched to using SeaFoam as much as they can. Unless you have some serious serious build up...doing a whole bottle of SeaFoam should work just fine for you.

 

Some Audi and VW models had this problem back in the 90's, they did a procedure that used walnut shells to "sandblast" the carbon off the valves and intake ports, they blamed the buildup on not using gas with Techron in it.

I liked the idea of using the walnut shells, environmentally good and would not take any metal off either, so no contamination of the engine, and any walnut bits left in that didn't get cleaned out would just burn up......they removed the intake manifold to do the job IIRC.

 

All at once or in three stages?

 

3 stages....each treatment being 1/3 of the bottle

 

Cool. Thought as much.

 

I have a question....about the video...and I have been dying to ask it...but nobody has......they show their product removes lead based paint...that is what they determined simulates carbon on metal......last time I checked....carbon build-up is lead and paint free....so are they selling paint remover...or engine cleaner!! The fact that it hurts coatings that have been applied to metal to protect them.....makes me wonder if the stuff they are selling is caustic. Just proves a good salesman can sell water to an drowning man if you have a customer who does not know any better!!

 

I just sent an email of the various questions everyone has been asking out to Conklin. Lets see what the response is...

Also, while looking at their products I have noticed that they sell oil and an oil cleaner as well. How different is this oil than that of Redline or Royal Purple? The following is a copy of their website:

[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Charlie/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.png[/IMG]
Extend drain intervals 15,000 miles
Save time and money by extending oil drains to 15,000 miles. Uniquely formulated, parasynthetic oil blends the best synthetic oil (PAO) and the finest conventional oils and additives. Molybdenum is added for ultimate wear protection. Convoy® provides immediate start-up lubrication for minimal wear and reduced friction - improving fuel economy and extending engine life.
*Conklin recommends oil analysis when extending oil drains.

When converting an engine from conventional motor oil to Convoy® it is important to first clean any sludge and deposits from the crankcase with TKO®. For vehicles with less than 20,000 miles, run TKO (1 pint to 4-6 quarts of oil) for 1500 miles of a 3,000-mile oil change interval. If your vehicle has over 20,000 miles on it run TKO and conventional motor oil for 3000 miles before adding Convoy. For engines with high mileage, it may be necessary to run TKO longer than the one oil change interval. Keep in mind you can’t run TKO too many times, in fact, some people prefer to run TKO continuously.
While running TKO you may notice a slight increase in oil consumption at first, this is normal. The increased oil consumption is a result of the sludge and deposits burning off.

The prepaid oil sample bottle ($13.80) comes with a bottle to put your oil sample in and a mailer to send it to the testing facility. -------> This might not be a bad idea. <---------

 

This is another YouTube documentary about Conklin used in Indy cars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xXq_...eature=related

 

MINIs require synthetic oil. Convoy 5W-30 appears to be a blend of synth and dino. I wouldn't use it in a MINI.

 

+1

Odd how he is posting prices for the stuff.....You CANNOT USE IT IN A MINI, and he is trying to sell it!! The oil is a blend!! ......"oil blends the best synthetic oil (PAO) and the finest conventional oils and additives...." Hm.....DMBFan2, is there any disclosure you need do? Are you a vendor, owner, distributor, etc?

Also oil in an indy car only needs to do its job....even if abused at high temp, high rpms for a very short period of time. Because it is used in a race car does not make it a good road car oil. If you believe it does, I'll sell you some airplane oil.....or some turbine/jet engine oil!!

 

Haha...my thoughts exactly...