>> They could have at least put a Cracker Jack prize in there, or something... What I want to know is, do these people have any hope of getting their money back, or do you forfeit your consumer rights when you fall for such obvious garbage?
>>
>>"The DPS has appeared in almost every automotive performance magazine in Japan, and is soon to follow a similar path in the United States."
>>
>>I mean, that's just priceless!

Ditto. My take, exactly, Chris. Caveat Emptor: may the buyer beware!

 

Agreed. I'm not suggesting anyone's getting Snake Oil'd either. Yet, - "Methinks thou dost protest too much." -***** S.

Q: Where are the pics of the inner-workings & full explanations for the technology? Why are so many of us still in the wonder on this? Why do we have to pool our money & disect a PB to know?

If it's patented, there's nothing to keep under wraps anymore.

 

>>>>Technology Unit (for) Radical(s)
Yup that's me alrighty!

>>>>Ah but does the DPS have pretty lights? Maybe the fuse has special mind control properties that forces the driver to think that the 350Z is really a fast MINI?
I like the lights on the PB. Very cool but I have to wait until night to fully take it in or throw a sheet over my MINI and play with it during the day.

>>>>Oh well. You only live once. Can I sell you some used "sea monkeys"?? :smile:

Correct. I have the M7 PB and I'm leaving it in. While I cannot "detect" much effect I have not noticed any harm either.
"X-rays" are bad for your health and even the portable unit doesn't fit under my bonnet.

Thank you Peter for standing behind your products and your point is well taken that the eval DPS unit may have been tainted or tinkered with.

 

Y'all should know me by now. I'll tear apart most anything that I have purchased to see what exactly it was that I paid my good hard cash for. Been doing so for years. I took apart almost every component I have added to my MINI to date, and several parts of the car as well. I have serious doubts about products from companies which do whatever they can to prevent such disclosures, and wont buy their goods.

The sealing of electronics (potting) is a double-edged sword. It is usually done in automotive applications to seal the electronics against moisture and corrosion as well as vibrations, but it is also used to hide circuitry of dubious design. Generally, no one will pull apart a working, potted circuit they had paid a lot of money for because in most cases, it destroys the item and they are out the cash. If a unit can be rather easily disassembled, there is a good chance the company is not trying to hide anything, plus in some cases, that item can be repaired or modified. A patent will legally prevent someone from duplicating the item.

 

MiniPilo, are you saying that there is no sweatshops in NJ... What, do you think Im a 350z owner now!!!

I LOVE your product, and have probably worn the bonnet latch out showing it to everybody and their momma. NO disrespect intended on your goods bud. I just had a humorus vision of you running a sweatshop filled with.. well sweatshop workers.

"Please Mr.Pilo my fingers are bleeding, can I please have a 2 min break to eat my stale bread"

 

No Harm was taken.. was just joking back... I think that it is good that this "performance mod" for the 350Z was broken... My brother has it's sister car the G35 Coupe... I know it's hard finding good upgrades for that car... So I see why people would jump at that product.

OH yea... Gotta go tell my workers to get back to work... j/k

Later
Dan
Pilo Racing

 

There's some really weird stuff going on in the 350z forum:

http://www.my350z.com/forum/sh...ber=5

International intrigue!

_________________



1/4 Mile Database

 

I read that over 3 times. Someone tell me if I have this wrong.


The distributor had to sign a contract to NEVER open up the unit and disclose its contents and he did so now he is getting sued.

WOW! Thats great. So they were definatly hiding something from the get go.


As far as the Plasma Booster I mearly said I would love to see it innards. I NEVER said it was a hoax. Who knows maybe one day I will get one and cut it open just to see. I too like to know how things work before I attach them to my car. I do not believe in blind faith and I never trust my butt dyno.

 

The middle paragraph leads me to believe that the person who opened the box had never signed the contract. Someone else vouched for him to get him his distributorship. That someone else is now getting sued. If he signed a contract like that I might have to agree with the suit.
Seems kind of screwy but a contract is a contract. In this case, not only the buyer should beware but the distributor as well!

 

This was posted on VWVortex and pretty much sums it up:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothrea...23008#10723008

 

This is getting better and better! What a bunch of hilarious, garbled nonsense! I
especially love the parts about "he just might be waiting for you in your
appartment one night" and "If you dont understand buessness in Japan then I
would not talk. They are weird there... All the secret **** is real there."

Wow, Igor better watch his back!

Gee, that's funny, because I thought the advertising read
"Top automobile manufacturers have attempted developing similar
units as the DPS, but K&G was the first to create and patent this technology."

>>International intrigue!

Indeed! I can't wait for the next chapter. Thanks guys for posting all this!

_________________

 

how can someone patent a fuse? I mean really. If it really is only a few wires and a fuse then the product is bogus and the manufacturer is making fraudulent claims about his product. Thus, by doing something illegal, doesn't that null and void whatever legal contract he had with the distributor? I'm no lawyer. But, it still doesn't sound kosher that a manufacturer can sue a distributor for disclosing the illegal activities of the manufacturer. especially since the distributor also has some legal responsibility to their consumers that the product does what it claims to do...

 

No argument there! Thedistributor should be suing the manufacturer for breach of contract by failing to provide the product advertised and or fraud!
Woukld love to be in the courtroom for this one! Someone quick! Call Court TV!

 

Increase in Horsepower and torque
Faster turbo spooling
Faster throttle and acceleration response
Faster handling response
Achieve higher RPM
Faster turbo spooling (for turbocharged cars)
Stronger and faster startup
Smoother driving
Improvement of battery life
Rise of illumination
Improvement of audio equipment
Higher top speed
Much more, depending on your vehicle

Have you read this? Anyone who believes that that box makes your handling response faster deserves to get ripped off.

 

Someone needs to take a PB apart, or Peter needs to
explain what's in there. Period.

I had an eval unit and it made no difference in
performance or fuel economy.

$250 is a lot for a box with blue lights.

If I had noticed even a LITTLE difference, I would
give Peter some credit, but his theory of operation
doesn't make sense with the "Peak-to-peak" spark
current and all the ho-ha.

I'm trying to help all the MINI folks keep from getting
ripped off just like the 350Z folks.

Peter is a nice guy on the phone, but his credibility is
lacking on my opinion.

 

>>BWAHAHAHA!!!
>>
>>Here's a site selling the product:
>>
>>http://redlineautosalon.com/store/pr...roducts_id=533

We will be removing this product from our catalog ASAP and issue refunds to everyone who bought from us.

 

Ryephile thank's for looking out for me.......

If you followed the endless PB debate at all, you would know that I disclosed all there is to know without giving away
the candy store. The inventor did come on line explaining everything etc.
Just because I'm a paying vendor does not meen I should stand back and take a wipping from Trippy when he bad mouths
my product............ Or should I?

As I always said if you want to talk to me, I'm a phone call away .... :smile:

 

Did a little research and found that the Plasma Booster has been used on many many other vehicles for the past few years.
Now it really seems that pointing the finger at M7 or even accusing this company of anything dishonest, regarding the Plasma Booster they offer, can only make the accuser look bad.
The Product is made for M7by a company called Ignition Solutions and the M7 Plasma Booster is Exclusive to the MINI and distribution is exclusive to M7 apperantly.

I found the Plasma Booster has been used on, BMW's, Mustangs and other vehicles over the past few years.
Anyway
Here is something I found on another website, about a PT Cruiser version of the Plasma Booster, again, made by Ignition Solutions.

Many years of research and development in the field of automotive ignition led to the development of the revolutionary Plasma Booster. The NEW Plasma Booster ignition system by Ignition Solutions utilizes the OEM ignition system to its fullest potential. The Plasma Booster is “boosting” the OEM current about 100 % higher (2x), without putting more load on the power-transistor or coil.

Actually, the stress on all components is reduced to extend the life of the coil and the other electronic ignition devices. Plasma Booster increases the primary current from 5 amperes to about 10 A resulting in 120 milli amperes on the secondary output in to the spark.

This higher current results in a faster and more stable combustion. A faster combustion means faster pressure buildup inside the combustion chamber, and a faster torque rise-time (torque becomes available faster).

The Plasma Booster is a revolutionary ignition technology! It can be applied to any inductive type ignition to gain 100% spark current. The Plasma Booster has active electronic components inside, hooked up to the existing ignition system and maximizing the output performance at the time of spark.

Highlights of Plasma Booster Technology
2 times more spark current
4 times more spark energy at the moment of discharge
Ultra Fast 10 Multi Spark up to full RPM redline (10 sparks within 500 micro seconds)
Smoother running engine (idle to redline)
Horsepower and Torque very powerful until redline
Increased throttle response
Smoother Horsepower and Torque measurable on the Dynometer
Feel the difference immediately
Less load on coil and other electronic components (longer life)
Completely compatible with all other electronic components on the car
Of course, this system also offers Fuel saving, Emission reduction and easier starting for hot and cold engines.
Of all the items above, the most noticeable instant change after installing the plasma booster will be the smooth running engine combined with a much better throttle response.
Plasma Booster
Picture 1,


Primary Current Stock Ignition
A max current of about 8 Amperes is reached and a peak to peak current of about the same 8 Amperes. (See original printout to the right of the pictures.)
Picture 2



Primary Current, Plasma Booster Ignition
A max current of about 8 Amperes is reached and a peak to peak current of about TWICE as much, --- almost 16 Amperes, a gain of 8 Amperes. This is double the amount of current in the coil, which will cause the secondary spark current to be twice as high as well. See picture below.


Picture 3



Secondary Spark Voltage, Stock Ignition System
A capture of a secondary spark voltage from a typical OEM system. Notice the single initial spark of less than 100 micro seconds and then a long trailing spark, longer than the picture shows.

Picture 4



Secondary Spark Voltage, Plasma Booster Ignition System
This clearly indicates the power of the added Plasma Booster. The result is a multi spark of about 10 sparks in opposite direction of each other within 500 micro seconds.

This initial spark is the most important part of the spark, since it is responsible for igniting the air fuel mixture correctly.

Picture 5




Secondary Spark Current, Stock Ignition
Now, this is the REAL stuff, here we see the secondary current in action. The maximum current achieved is about 70 milli Amperes and a PK-PK primary current of about 7 Amperes.

Picture 6




Secondary Spark Current, Plasma Booster Ignition
This is the capture as before, but now with the Plasma Booster installed and the secondary current reaches over 144 milli amperes, compared to 70 milli amperes on the OEM system.

At the same time the secondary energy is 4 times higher, because the current goes in square into the energy calculation.

 

Finally some concise info to back up the gut feeling I had when I installed it about 2 weeks ago. How much more torque, I don't know.How much more HP, I don't know.Does it work , YES I know. The car accelerates smoother, pulls a higher gear at a lower RPM than before and feels more eager to rev.Some things just don't show as big on a dyno as they do on the car.For all of you that drive dynos I guess that is important. Fortunately I drive a car a lot more than I do a dyno. Page Title maxmini home site

 

>vPeter - Do not attack other members, especially since you are a vendor. Just >answer his call to disclosure like a professional and move on.

i strongly agree.

 

Trippy,

If you want to get the PB back and take it apart, I'll go halvsies with you on the price.

BTW, Redlineautosalon.com, I am very impressed by your response!

 

Peter,

If I look at picture #3, I see the secondary voltage of an OEM ignition
peaks at 13.67 kiliVolts.

If I look at picture #4 I see that the PB secondary voltage peaks at
only 12.18 KiliVolts.

This is a smaller number.

If I compare pictures 1 and 2, and I ignore the rescaling, and actually
COUNT the size of the ramp, I see that the OEM current
is about 4 units and the PB is about 3.2 units. I do see that someone
either intentionally or inadvertantly captured these two images
in two different ways so that it would not be easy to compare them.
The zero current reference in the PB trace is left off so that leaves you
some room to claim things that are not demonstrated by the graph.
Must have been an accident on that trace.

I am not fooled by the "Peak-to-peak" current.

So, without any fluffery, please explain how a lower primary current
produces a lower secondary voltage, and SOMEHOW makes
a better spark ignition system.

The ball is in your court, Vendor. Prove your product.

NB: I will be out of contact until Thursday Dec 4, so I'll depend on
several other knowledgable members to field the responses until
I return. Thanks guys.


_________________
[img]src="http://bobodyne.com/web-docs/Images/Logo.jpg[/img]

 

>>Trippy,
>>
>>If you want to get the PB back and take it apart, I'll go halvsies with you on the price.
>>

Hey Andy, a Plasma Booster just showed up in the marketplace here so we have a chance to find out what is in the plasma booster. I'm willing to pay $25 (1/10 the original price) just to open it up and see what's in there. I know you from my previous life in the vortex and think that you would be more qualified to open up the patented box and show us what is inside (I would probably spill the plasma all over the place)

My scientific background requires that I be skeptical until I can see repeatable, significant results. Data showing a 1-2% increase on the dyno is not significant in my eyes, as there are outside variables that affect results of dynos that are typically greater than 1-2% (heat, atmospheric pressure, cold vs warm runs, duct tape adhered to the underside of the bonnet, etc).

Those that have installed this unit do say that their enine is "smoother" I do not know the best way to measure "smoothness". My best idea would be to do a double-blind test and have different drivers rate the "smoothness" of the engine without knowing if it's plasma has been boosted. My hypothesis is that increased perceived smoothness is directly proportional to decreased account balance, and that increased perceived smoothness is a psychological rather than a mechanical response to the installation of the PB.

 

>>Did a little research and found that the Plasma Booster has been used on many many other vehicles for the past few years.
>>Highlights of Plasma Booster Technology
>>2 times more spark current
>>4 times more spark energy at the moment of discharge
>>Ultra Fast 10 Multi Spark up to full RPM redline (10 sparks within 500 micro seconds)
>>Smoother running engine (idle to redline)
>>Horsepower and Torque very powerful until redline
>>Increased throttle response
>>Smoother Horsepower and Torque measurable on the Dynometer
>>Feel the difference immediately
>>Less load on coil and other electronic components (longer life)
>>Completely compatible with all other electronic components on the car
>>Of course, this system also offers Fuel saving, Emission reduction and easier starting for hot and cold engines.
>>Of all the items above, the most noticeable instant change after installing the plasma booster will be the smooth running engine combined with a much better throttle response.
>>Plasma Booster
>>Primary Current Stock Ignition
>>A max current of about 8 Amperes is reached and a peak to peak current of about the same 8 Amperes. (See original printout to the right of the pictures.)
>>Primary Current, Plasma Booster Ignition
>>A max current of about 8 Amperes is reached and a peak to peak current of about TWICE as much, --- almost 16 Amperes, a gain of 8 Amperes. This is double the amount of current in the coil, which will cause the secondary spark current to be twice as high as well. See picture below.
>>
>>Secondary Spark Voltage, Stock Ignition System
>>A capture of a secondary spark voltage from a typical OEM system. Notice the single initial spark of less than 100 micro seconds and then a long trailing spark, longer than the picture shows.
>>
>>Secondary Spark Voltage, Plasma Booster Ignition System
>>This clearly indicates the power of the added Plasma Booster. The result is a multi spark of about 10 sparks in opposite direction of each other within 500 micro seconds.
>>
>>This initial spark is the most important part of the spark, since it is responsible for igniting the air fuel mixture correctly.
>>Secondary Spark Current, Stock Ignition
>>Now, this is the REAL stuff, here we see the secondary current in action. The maximum current achieved is about 70 milli Amperes and a PK-PK primary current of about 7 A
>>Secondary Spark Current, Plasma Booster Ignition
>>This is the capture as before, but now with the Plasma Booster installed and the secondary current reaches over 144 milli amperes, compared to 70 milli amperes on the OEM system.
>>
>>At the same time the secondary energy is 4 times higher, because the current goes in square into the energy calculation.








So does all this current and energy adds up to nothing? No power gain?

>>Smoother Horsepower and Torque measurable on the Dynometer

Do people measure HP and TQ smoothness on the dyno?

Huh?

 

I will say this about that: I really have no idea what the plasma booster does or doesn't do. However, that being said, I stopped by Peter's today (11-28-03) and drove his car. Like I said I don't know what does what as he had Nitrous but I can tell you one thing for sure IT HAD A HECK OF A LOT MORE POWER THAN MY MINIS with no mods.

Not saying it's good or bad but worth looking at. Dyno your car, spend $250.00, install it, Dyno it again ?? will this tell you anything?

Like I say drove his car Nitrous off and DROVE his car nitrous on. Again, don't know abut M7 Plasma Booster.

Earl

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SCURVES