Yeah...I didn't follow that at all.

 

No reason why you should, I would like to suggest countryboy buy both devices and tunes.

Then he can provide us with the dyno plots showing us results on his MINI.

Now to the thread topic. I find this very interesting, it appears the AP is a bit more refined and powerful.

It makes me wonder if Dimsport will come out soon with another version of the tool with more features.

For now, I will watch and review everyone's results, it will take about 6 months for the dust to settle. I'm sure each vendor will provide excellent support to the MINI community.

Btw, there is more than one qualified MINI 3rd party vendor providing tunes with the Dimsport tool set.

Don

Btw, SimpsonGI, great your exploring both ways, always nice to push the edges.

 

Sorry for slow replies again. We have been busy setting up for an event.

I get the same thing over and over from you about dyno's. You are implying that i cheat the graphs, or our dyno is wrong, or whatever. This results are back with lots of runs and the lines showns are not even the best ones!

It does us ZERO good to fake things like this because at some point it comes out and then we look stupid. None of our dyno results are faked. I know that is not going to change your mind about us.
Cobb is adding some IDC type things but i don't think its gonig to help answer IDC question. btwdriver explained it perfectly. The window for which fuel can be injected is very small and 100% DC would mean they are always spraying, which can't happen. There may be a way to figure out what the window they can be sprayed in, then see if they are open that entire time. But that window could have a variable since fuel can be sprayed when the piston is sucking in air, or it can be sprayed only after compression.

What does work better to answer your question is Fuel pressure. DI (direct injection) engines heavily rely on this to function. On other cars out there with DI, you lookat at your fuel pressure dropping as an indication that your pump is running out of flow.

So if that makes sense, then i can tell you a MCS Stage 3 makes about 220WHP on our dyno. The ECU's requested fuel pressure and actual fuel pressure holds all the way to 7000. Meaning no drop in pressure at those levels. The pressure is 43-ish Mpa at 2000RPM hits a steady 46Mpa at 4000rpm, and holds 46.5Mpa at 7000.

This pump is very similar to teh MS3/6 pump and they tend to give up around 300WHP. My only comparison is our MCS with the Gt2560 turbo kit on it. It did 280WHP with no sign of pressure dropping or AFR going leaner. Back then we didn't have an AccessPORT type tool to be able to gather the proper data. Now that we do, we will be installing some different turbos!

I had bunches for each stage i pulled off the dyno, but for some reason my jump drive messed them up. It will have to wait until tomorrow. But for now i can give a description.

Stock AFR curve is 14.7 AFR holding until about 4000 RPM. Then it slopes down to 10.5afr at redline. The ECU is actually purposely targeting 14.7 AFR the whole time, but there is an EGT limit that causes this "Enrichment" to happen. The EGT it self is 100% calculated, its not an actual EGT sensor. What is scary is i have seen dyno runs were it does this 14.7 AFR all the way to redline! On a normal port fuel injected turbo engine, this would NEVER work! Got to love these Direct injection engines! Anyway, while every car we have ever dynoed with the stock tune does this, its not safe for big boost and power as real EGT's can sky rocket and melt things!

So the ALTA AFR curve is 12.2 to 12.7 (depending on mods) and its flat 12.5 until around 6000 then we richen it up to 11.5. We can make the AFR whatever we want! I have done runs at 13.5, 11.5 and there is virtually no difference. 12-ish is very safe and keeps your engine cooler and more stable under heavy heavy loads.

The ECU has an AFR target so no matter what you do, it will run the same curve on our tune. That is the simple answer about AFR and there is so much more to how we can do this and no other tuner can. BUt we will save that for later.

If they do, let them. Dimsport, and all the other Euro tuners make maps and tools for thousands of cars and do not have the time to spead on one car like the Mini. Look at their fittment charts! Look at the whole euro tuner market. Its all the same. They offer a map sometimes a tool that gives you 5-10HP. Rarely do they get tuners to really push the tunes they are rarely pushing the envelope like us US tuners. This is why their tools are limited.

The AccessPORT has taken years to develope into what you see here. And with that said, there are rumors of something even newer and better coming out!

Yes there are bunch of Dimsport tuners around. Most of them use the tools for VW and Audi tunes, but hardely any are specialized in Mini. Guess what, we specialize in Mini!!

There is so much more info we have to spill but i think it will be too much for people to ingest at one time. So keep the questions coming and we will keep adding the good ones to our FAQ section at the front of this thread. I am still putting together the section that talkes about what kinds of things we can do with our mapping!

 

Will this work on non USA cars ie Australia/UK?

 

At this point, no. If you Mini doesn't have a MAF sensor on the intake (sensor bolted to the air box) then we know it will not work at this moment. We are going to start working toward getting these cars going. You will just have to keep checking the site or NAM for updates.

 

Can I use a dry or wet nitrous kit?

 

That is a separate system from the ECU so yes! The only thing is where do you tap in for fuel. The pump prior to the high pressure pump isn't designd to flow volumes that you may need for your nitrous. But i am not a nitrous expert at all. Ok i am not really a fan at all. If it was me, Water injection and a bigger turbo is what i would do! Also rods might be a good idea!

 

Ok folks, I got to do a little more testing on the way home from work tonight - after loading another map Jeff sent me.

0-~70 1st gear - tires spinning hard, shift into 2nd and tires continue spinning to redline. Shift into 3rd and get some chirping as the tires scramble for traction. gotta let off the gas as i'm speeding.

other test.. 2nd gear rolling along at ~10mph ~1200 rpm. Mash pedal to floor. Starts moving, get to 2000 rpm and now your are accelerating, 2500 rpm and you are thinking "wow". ~3000 rpm all hell breaks loose as the tires give up trying to hold traction and now they spin up to redline.

I haven't gotten to try a rolling start in 3rd to see what happens. I suspect I'll here some tire chirping around 4k rpm.

I can't say how the drive train will hold up to the power but the power is real. Alta isn't kidding around.

How does it drive around town and in traffic? Perfectly civilized.

 

Now that sounds like fun. Almost ready to purchase...just want to wait it out a bit more. Thanks for the review MotorMouth!

 

EXCELLENT answer BTWdriver, I guess as more a/f ratios come out in graphs, we'll see if these cars are running out of fuel.




I think part of the problem is that everyone looks at the peak numbers. I'm guilty of that too.

Point is, if they look at the peak numbers, then using a dyno that reads higher would make people question as to which dyno you are using.

Having said that... for those that aren't paying attention. It MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHICH DYNO IS BEING USED.

There should be 2 things you're looking at on a graph.

1) the area under the graph. Having a car that spiked the dyno to say xxx HP or TQ doesn't mean squat if it was for only 200 rpms and then drops back down.

2) The DIFFERENCE in between the new tune and whatever is presently on your car. Then and only then will you know if it increased or decreased the HP/TQ readings on your car.




Thanks M, that's exactly what I want. I will run the car on the same dyno on the same day so we can compare. Like I said, this isn't a pissing contest between vendors but let's be honest, people are going to buy the product that gives them the best result (no matter what they're looking for... ie, driveability, power, gas mileage, whatever) for their driving style.

I personally have an issue with the hiccup in my car. Unfortunately for me, Jan is too swamped to spend time helping customers. He tunes more than just minis and spends so much time going from city to city, he basically lives out of a suitcase. Business is great for him, just not us consumers.

Personally, after looking at Simpson's graph, you can tell how smooooth the curves are, I'm pretty impressed with that.

I can't wait to see what kind of numbers a JCW produces, I've got a good guess and if it works, the car will become undriveable (in a good way...lol)

The tune was sent second day air which means it's probably arriving at my shop today. (Saturday ) so I won't get it till Monday.

I hadn't heard back from my local dyno guy as far as next weekend (I'm going to get in touch with him today) but my problem is I have to install my new coilovers, lower control arms and powerflex bushings and brackets.

That in itself isn't a big deal but I've got 4 trackdays back to back at the end of the month.

Point is, if I miss this coming weekend, it won't be till Sept before I can get back to the dyno.

I'll start a post and keep everyone informed.


Mark

 

You are absolutely correct, peak numbers don't mean everything. I would add a little bit more to what you said, Mark. It is also important to look at where the gains are in the graphs. I would rather have a tune that gives me 10 to 20whp consistently up through the low end to high end than to give it all up in the high end. Looking forward to seeing your results...add me to the orangecrush fan club

 

Yes you are right Orangecrush. I do look at peak values too. My middleground would be to see before and after results of the tune to compare deltas. I will continue to watch the progress of this product. Hopefully it pans out for the good of the R56 community.

 

That is the only way you can compare one dyno chart to another as each dyno will read differently and each dyno will very from day to day depending on ambient conditions. Looking at peak numbers are nice but they truly don't mean squat. What really counts is the percentage of gain. The curves should be smooth, consistent, and not have everything all up top. Low end torque and power gain percentage is actually more important to me as I spend more time in the low end of the power curve than the upper end.

 

Just got mine in. Couldn't wait and paid a lot extra to have it delivered overnight on Saturday. I try to load a map and it says its not compatible with my vehicle. WTF? Is it because I have a JCW Tuning Package. I have a '07 MCS

 

sorry double post

 

Not sure. There is a mention of something like this in the FAQ (1st page second post of this thread).

 

NO REASON for the WTF! We are here to help and thanks for the biz, sorry you are having a minor issue. Jeff already sent you an Email about this, but I will put it up here as well. In the future, always give us a ring or email or AIM prior to posting if you want the concern handled ASAP!

We are in the office today. Special Event with the AccessPORT actually!

I am PM'ing you MY (Adam) and Jeff personal cell phone #'s. Give us a ring and we will walk you through the process!

Thanks again!

 

Sorry the WTF was aimed more at myself. I figured I did something wrong. Thanks Jeff and Adam for your help. Great customer service and I really appreciate it.

 

Please let the community know if you got it loaded and what your initial impressions are of the device and tune.

 

On the phone with Jeff now. Not many places are willing to help out on a Saturday especially when they have an event going on. Cant wait to get it installed. I had an AP on my WRX and I loved it. I hope the MCS version is as good.

 

First responses then graphs!

That is so awesome! Glad you like, maybe love it??

And actually the Dynapack is known to show pretty rough graphs because of how sensitive it is and that there is not 2500lbs of rollers dampening the effects.


We get customers asking how much power! Well saying peak numbers always sounds ok, but its hard to describe that it make big power down low. Getting a dyno graph in a customers hands is really a valuable selling tool. Then after that we have to educate them to know what they are looking at.

We have been doing alot of this over the last few days! Looks like we need to make page on our site to better describe dyno Graphs.

 

Here are some different AFR graphs.



As i mentioned last night, the AFR on the car stock is really lean. You can see how this could be bad for big power and boost. So we richen it up to safe levels to not only keep detonation at bay, but also to keep your EGT's down. You would think this would also loose power, but it doesn't!

Keep in mind this only takes effect under full throttle, not normal driving so milage isn't gonig to change. One of our test customers tracked his car, and i asked, how was your milage. I expected him to say it was way worse as our map is richer and make more power. But he said it still read about 6MPG and he still had to fill up half way through the day. Interesting!

The question started with countryboyshanes question about IDC on the R56 and then ThumberMCS's question about AFR. Hopefull my last big post and this help answer that.

 

Couldn't wait any longer, just placed my order for my AP (JCW Stage 1). Can't wait to get it installed and feel the added torque.

Our club (SotaMINIs) has a drive coming up on Saturday, Highway 60 in southeast Minnesota. Will be fun to test the new tune on a nice stretch of twisties.

Thanks Alta for bringing this to market!

 

EDIT: My battery was dead. My fault. All is good now,


Got my new updates and maps and now my car wont start. Got an ECU code P303e. Uninstalled put back to stock and it still wont start. Anyone have any ideas? I'm without a car now.

 

Thank you ALTA for all your work in support of the MINI world. I look forward to receiving my AccessPort next week.

Motor On!!