PCV = positive crankcase ventilation
I believe what you are talking about it the PCV valve. And the MINI's PCV valve function on the N14 is contained within the valve cover; has been for years. And, as far as I'm aware of, nobody is saying that is any different on the N18 engine.


Please, enlighten me… point to where my story has changed.
Now, I want to be clear on this; I'm asking where what I have said has changed. I'm not asking where what you have said that I said has changed, because that has frequently been very different.

Let's go over this (again) slowly…

That revised intake manifold is a result of trying to fix a problem with intake manifolds getting damaged by cold temperatures due to the pooling of liquids (more specific details are apparently contained in SIM 120509). The revised intake manifold receives crankcase fumes very near the mouth of each individual intake port. It is intended for use on the N14 engine, and to work with the rest of the components that comprise the N14 engine, makes use of the passenger side PCV hose connection on the N14's existing valve cover.

Now, moving to the N18…
As DneprDave said way back in post #60 (this has to be the 3rd or 4th time I've directed your attention there), he was told that the function of the N14's passenger side PCV hose had been incorporated within the N18's valve cover itself, sending crankcase fumes directly to the individual intake ports (by-passing the intake manifold entirely… something the N14 likely cannot do without a revised valve cover and cylinder head). The reason for this change that DneprDave was given, was strikingly similar to the reason for the intake manifold being revised on the N14. And indeed, as a whole, the functioning of what used to be the separate passenger side hose part now appears to be very similar between the N14 w/ revised intake manifold and the N18 with revised valve cover and cylinder head, in that they both are now directing crankcase fumes to the intake ports as directly as possible. And if you care to go back and look, I made not of the similarity back in post #61, responding to DneprDave's account of what he had been told about the N18.

Do you understand this now? Do you understand why your questions (that I quoted above) make no sense in the discussion?

 

yup, i meant to say pcv valve. so you're telling me that there's a pcv valve internal to the valve cover and the piping runs internally as well?

 

there is a PCV valve internal to the valve cover, and what DneprDave was told as to what's different with the N18 engine and its PCV system (that the "piping" is internal to the valve cover and cylinder head) is the most believable explanation to date (given the changes that occurred with the N14 intake manifold and an understanding of how modern PCV systems work).

 

Ahhhh........ ego's are too big for my little computer screen. Don't worry about the passenger side PCV if it is internal. Just put one on the driver side to stop oil from getting into you turbo and inter cooler. Thus problem solved and everybody is happy

 

So why does BSH need to redesign much of anything being that the passenger side is internal?

Wouldn't just any catch can work for driver's side?

 

Who knows why BSH does what they do. ppl here are trying to reinvent the wheel here and just fighting each other. like i stated eairles the purpose of a OCC is to get the sludge out of your turbo and IC. So quit worrying about the passenger side anything!

 

the purpose of a second oil catch can on the passenger side in the 07-10 cars is to prevent carbon build up on the valves. it seems like the n18 engines don't allow for that, so you're right, just throw one on for the driver's side and be done with it. if i knew that the hoses fit properly, i would do so already/soon. i really don't want to go out and look for my own hoses to make it fit.

 

I would love to know the OD of the PCV hose on the drivers side on the N18. If it is bigger which i might think...... there is probably no internal PCV in the head. It is being routed through the turbo and back to the intake. I say this because if Mini was to admit there wrong doing or engineering screwup the walnut cleaning would be free...instead of stating that the gas is bad in the US and it is causing intake valves...... that would never see gas on a DI..... are not getting cleaned. If it smells like crap, looks like crap, it probably is crap my friends!

 

valid point you got there. i don't think, from my visual inspection, that the OD of the pcv hose on the n18 is bigger. i can try to provide an actual number later tonight if that'll help any.

 

yeah that would be great. Why change the engine head if there we no problems. I love the term "pooling".....well is there not going to be "pooling" in the intake thus causing liquid to settle on the intake valves. A gas engine does not compress liquid thus internally putting it to the intake would try to force compression on liquid or "pooling" of said liquids. This does not make sense. I'm a mechanic and can't wrap my head around this! The cap on the intake was an after thought by Mini due to oil and carbon build up on the intake.

 

To be clear, there is no indication (as yet) that the N18 engines are any less problematic with carbon buildup on the intake valves.

I assume when you said "the n18 engines don't allow for that" you mean they don't allow for a can there... not that the don't allow for carbon buildup. But it was a little ambiguous.

This was the fear when people first got a look at the N18 under the hood of a 2011 MCS. I say "fear" because (as was quickly pointed out at the time) the intercooler would itself act as a giant catch can for *all* the crankcase fumes -- it's already bad enough on the N14 when it only does this under boost conditions -- and that MINI would have been mitigating one serious issue (intake port carbon buildup) while exacerbating another (intercooler clogging). It didn't make any sense at all... which is why what DneprDave was told regarding crankcase-to-cylinder PCV routing being internalized to the valve cover makes for a much more believable story.

The pooling/freezing/cracking issue that necessitated a revision of the N14 intake manifold has nothing to do with carbon buildup on the intake valves. The relevant service bulletin regarding this issue is apparently SIM 120509.

I have not been able to find a copy of this SIM 120509 document yet, and thus haven't read it myself... but the pooling/freezing/cracking story has been relayed by multiple people who were told this by their local MINI service department.

And, in DneprDave's account of what he was told regarding changes to the N18 valve cover, the reason given for the crankcase-to-cylinder PCV routing internalization was the same pooling/freezing/cracking issue brought up for the N14 intake manifold change.

 

I've heard that methanol injection keeps the intake valves clean.

Dave

 

I've heard that, too.
But I've also heard differently.

 

Anyone have a actual pic or drawing of this PCV valve -- on either engine? Perhaps when you had the valve cover off for a bit of work underneath?

It'd sure be nice for orientation purposes (and might help to reduce the volume of alternative speculation).

 

Mr. Fishbert,

I would like to say you have good insight to the world around you! But speaking in a mechanical sense i feel you temperament is a little off. I am a huge mini fan and a great admirer of there autos. But with that being said, the mechanics do not make any sense, I myself being a P.E.. in Mechanical design, why do all other vehicle's that have a turbo design... the same as a centrifugal Chiller, not have a "pooling" problem like the mini does? Most cars have gone to a DI style but yet have the problems such as this. ABS (meaning plastic) has been used for several years in auto with out this type of problem. English engines have always been engines that are on constant maintenance, now being owned by BMW has given them an open check book to change design and performance at at the customers "problems" such as pooling. If one thinks pooling is the major problem with these autos they are sadly mistaken. Like i asked before. Why internalize a non defective part. The '11 have only been here this year. I would love for one to pull the intake apart to find no carbon build up. They will not see it now but due to the way the engine is designed after about 30 to 50k they will have engine problems due to the intercooler having an oil issue. The Head with a PCV valve is ludicrous. That is why having a OCC on the driver side is the best things for the '11 cars. BTW air or pressures follows the past of least resistance thus a OCC on the driver side works best due to the pressure drop in the can itself. The static, pressure over an 1/1000 of an inch of water column, would be to high on the passenger side to create any "pooling" of liquids on the intake. The drivers side creates more problems due to it being on the first vacuum side of the system unlike the passenger side.. Wow i am all over the place. My thought is there is no internal PCV... that is a lie... mini capping off the PCV to the intake... due to sludge and water... best thing they could do. Hence put an OCC on you driver side and water and carbon build up should disappear. WOW i am done! You guys are luck to have an '11 if you have a catch can!

 

oh methanol injection has water in it. so why now does it keep you intake clean when water was pooling an atomizing on the intake......? What is the difference...Btw i said atomizing!

 

ughhhh there is/was a problem of pooling. And I'm pretty sure we've already established through multiple sources of MINI techs that the passenger side is now internal. Why would they lie?

 

So if you were a billion dollar company that had to fork out 300 out of you pocket for the 2,000,000 plus minis that were out there for a "Walnut Cleaning" How much profit do you have to gain? All engines pool moisture. So what is so diffent about this car than anybody else. A service bulletin mean nothing when it is putting a band aide on a cracked skull. Hence the cows my come and the cows may go but the BS stays around here forever!

 

oh and once again MINI techs read a computer and e-mail Germany on what to do. They are trained by Mini to do what they say... and i can back this up specially with countless hours of talking to my MA,SA and tech, funny that they are not mechanics anymore, as they e-mail Germany on what to do next. People think for yourselves! Why change something through France or Germany if there is not an intake problem. Don't get caught on the "pooling" question. Get stuck on the carbon question.. it's called slight of hand! Houdini!

 

Leo, I am not going to get into an internet fight with you over this. Suffice it to say that a modest internet search will turn up a number of people who are having temperature-related issues with pooling/freezing of liquids that MINI has attempted to address by replacing their intake manifold with the revised version. In fact, I think I've already provided a number of links to such reports, one of which even called out a MINI service bulletin on the issue.

But hey, if you want to believe it's not real, be my guest. I'm not going to fight with you about it.

 

I believe there probably is a problem with pooling. I have a question? why do you support methanol injection when pooling is water build up on an intake. And how does the new intake take care of that. For those minor few that get pooling which is residual oil and WATER from the oil. Oil and water don"t mix just like oil and vinegar because oil has a higher specific gravity just live oil not to mix. People.... Water and oil carry each other because they separate. Hence get rid of the passenger side PCV and there is a lack of "pooling" because the other driver side PCV is sucking oil and Water , at this point atomized H20 due to turbo temp. that there will be no pooling unless left over residual from the RH in the air. Those i can see with pooling problem are ppl with RH ( relative humidity) of over 70% because the air is saturated with water thus giving latent cooling not specific, look them up... it changed my fife...., thus unless you are liveing in high humidity situations pooling is the least of your problems. The PCV change was due to Carbon build up. Why change the design to help the few when all have CARBON BUILD UP! once again there the is no PCV that is internal nor would they do that because that would cost them millions with the oil problems that they have, Hence another $1,000,000,000 fix passed on to us. They are not mechanics they are technicians. Somebody tells them what to do and they do it! Welcome to the 21st century. Oh BTW I've been a mechanic and PE (drafting on CAD and calcs are boring when u can't play with what u made) for over 15 years. Any questions PM me and i will help you as much as i can. thanks all you are good ppl... but don't believe the crap!

 

You seem to be leaping about quite a bit without a full understanding of the issue.

I don't portend to know all the details, either… but I have seen enough evidence to convince me that the issue does exist and was the reason behind the N14's revised intake manifold. If you have further questions/doubts on the matter, might I suggest that (instead of flailing about in here) you visit your nearest MINI service bay and ask them if they could let you read SIM 120509.

Also, who said I supported methanol injection?!

 

And we have also heard from many MINI techs to the contrary... hence the discussion. Ive looked back into this thread and it seems that DnperDave's insight is the only basis of this theory of an Internal PCV on the N18. I will keep you apprised of the N18 valve cover when it comes in.

 

That, a basic understanding of how a modern PCV system functions (sending crankcase fumes to the combustion chamber to be burned off), and an observation that it wouldn't take much to (in effect) pull routing similar to the N14's revised intake manifold into the valve cover.

I might add that the only basis we have for the "it's now completely blocked off like with a BSH boost tap" theory is an observation that the N18 valve cover doesn't look like the N14 valve cover.

 

Did you get that cover yet?