Drivetrain Standalone ECU
#78
02-08-2011 | 05:52 AM
Banned
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 636
Likes: 1
lol. I'm VERY tempted to go through the archives and link each vendor's thread relating to "O-M-G NEW TUNING POSSIBILITIES COMING, UPDATES TOMORROW" / "WE GOT A SURPRISE FOR YOU!" / "ECU TUNE BEING RELEASED SOON" .....followed by 6 months of members getting SO hyped up, and then being let down. There have been numerous false promises on here. I won't even lie, some of those have come from RMW and ALTA themselves. Difference is they're one of the few vendors that eventually came through (but even still, way after their original planned date).
Many on this board have learned to not trust posts like this until the actual product has come out. None of this "We're currently testing it and it should be ready to be sold in 2 days". In all honesty, I would LOVE to fiddle with settings myself. Granted, I did get dyno tuned at my altitude and conditions, but you're right, for hardware upgrades, playing with settings is definitely an option I'd love.
If this Mynes product eventually comes out, I'll be very happy and anticipate seeing reviews of it. The more competition the better imo. Its about time the R56 has caught up with modding possibilities of half the other tuner cars out there. But until it does, the "HOLD ON AND WAIT FOR THIS" post will mean nothing to me.
/time to get back to engineering commercial and military aircraft turbine engines that you and I fly on.
Many on this board have learned to not trust posts like this until the actual product has come out. None of this "We're currently testing it and it should be ready to be sold in 2 days". In all honesty, I would LOVE to fiddle with settings myself. Granted, I did get dyno tuned at my altitude and conditions, but you're right, for hardware upgrades, playing with settings is definitely an option I'd love.
If this Mynes product eventually comes out, I'll be very happy and anticipate seeing reviews of it. The more competition the better imo. Its about time the R56 has caught up with modding possibilities of half the other tuner cars out there. But until it does, the "HOLD ON AND WAIT FOR THIS" post will mean nothing to me.
/time to get back to engineering commercial and military aircraft turbine engines that you and I fly on.
Told you I was going to **** some people off.
Octane, no word on the MYNES Forum site yet on when it is going to be relesed. You can check out the S/W specs at http://mynesperformance.forumotion.c...1-mini-r56-r60
As for needing dyno sheets for proof, any kind of tuning creates better dyno numbers, as long as whoever tunes it knows what they are doing. Its not the S/W that makes the power its how the ECU is set for the engine to run, the S/W just opens the door for a tuner to do their job. It dosent even need to be a MINI specific tuner to set it up, any tuner with a dyno, and half a brain (knows what AFR, and Knock levels are acceptible, and safe) can do the job weather they tune Mitsubishi's, Hondas, Audis, or whatever, so there is no JAN nessicary.
The Access Port IMHO is a glorified canned tune. It is still based off of average running conditions on an average of cars. Not all cars run the same, people live at different altitudes and climates, which really affects the way a car runs. With a Canned tune its really a best guess of what will work for everyone. It really daoent matter if they have 20 maps to choose from, there are THOUSANDS of R56's built, are you absolutely sure that one of those 20 is exactly right for you?
Now Remote tunes are a little better but, there is still no tuner present with the car. They are simply basing their maps off of dataloggs through emails, which can work well but still may take manny times of going through the process to get it perfect.
The only way to get a perfect tune is to get a custom tune LOCALY (In your state at your altitude and atmospheric air dencity.), which means finding a way into your ECU, or waiting for someone to fly out to your area, and hoping you can get in on a tuning party.
The FA56 S/W is that gateway into your ECU, so that it can be tuned properly without the wait, and NOT having somebody take an EDUCATED GUESS at what the car really needs.
Any more arguements?
Octane, no word on the MYNES Forum site yet on when it is going to be relesed. You can check out the S/W specs at http://mynesperformance.forumotion.c...1-mini-r56-r60
As for needing dyno sheets for proof, any kind of tuning creates better dyno numbers, as long as whoever tunes it knows what they are doing. Its not the S/W that makes the power its how the ECU is set for the engine to run, the S/W just opens the door for a tuner to do their job. It dosent even need to be a MINI specific tuner to set it up, any tuner with a dyno, and half a brain (knows what AFR, and Knock levels are acceptible, and safe) can do the job weather they tune Mitsubishi's, Hondas, Audis, or whatever, so there is no JAN nessicary.
The Access Port IMHO is a glorified canned tune. It is still based off of average running conditions on an average of cars. Not all cars run the same, people live at different altitudes and climates, which really affects the way a car runs. With a Canned tune its really a best guess of what will work for everyone. It really daoent matter if they have 20 maps to choose from, there are THOUSANDS of R56's built, are you absolutely sure that one of those 20 is exactly right for you?
Now Remote tunes are a little better but, there is still no tuner present with the car. They are simply basing their maps off of dataloggs through emails, which can work well but still may take manny times of going through the process to get it perfect.
The only way to get a perfect tune is to get a custom tune LOCALY (In your state at your altitude and atmospheric air dencity.), which means finding a way into your ECU, or waiting for someone to fly out to your area, and hoping you can get in on a tuning party.
The FA56 S/W is that gateway into your ECU, so that it can be tuned properly without the wait, and NOT having somebody take an EDUCATED GUESS at what the car really needs.
Any more arguements?
#80
02-08-2011 | 03:49 PM
I love a good challenge, haters are going to hate.. It's their job.
I already spoke with Alta and I understand the limitations right now. 260whp seems to be the limit with the new OEM Turbo rebuild they will be offering. Sensor issues so on and so forth. It is crazy to think the pessimistic thought of some people will prevent people from reaching great heights.
And ThePeni just to say, last time I went to Greece it was awesome. Kefalonia was extremely nice place to get away to for 3 weeks. Europe is a extreme motivator for me, I have seen some of these impossibilities become possible there. 1000hp e36 M3.... Where is the fastest x6m not in the states.
I have faith and confidence that the MCS is in fact a BMW, which means there is a whole lot of hp hidden in the vehicle. A lot of people push the warranty card.. How many of you guys go down to the dealership and bull ***** with the techs and salesmen? You know that a bottle of alcohol on the passanger seat for you maintenance team really keeps the ball rolling. Life is about relationships, and just because you have had your car for 3 years and have accepted the fact that you are stuck at a hp rating doesn't mean you shouldn't be excited that someone wants to take it to the next level.
I want to be reasonable with allotted time. So I am thinking next December to early 2012 is when Project:King Leonidus will return with 300.. The games have already begun.
I already spoke with Alta and I understand the limitations right now. 260whp seems to be the limit with the new OEM Turbo rebuild they will be offering. Sensor issues so on and so forth. It is crazy to think the pessimistic thought of some people will prevent people from reaching great heights.
And ThePeni just to say, last time I went to Greece it was awesome. Kefalonia was extremely nice place to get away to for 3 weeks. Europe is a extreme motivator for me, I have seen some of these impossibilities become possible there. 1000hp e36 M3.... Where is the fastest x6m not in the states.
I have faith and confidence that the MCS is in fact a BMW, which means there is a whole lot of hp hidden in the vehicle. A lot of people push the warranty card.. How many of you guys go down to the dealership and bull ***** with the techs and salesmen? You know that a bottle of alcohol on the passanger seat for you maintenance team really keeps the ball rolling. Life is about relationships, and just because you have had your car for 3 years and have accepted the fact that you are stuck at a hp rating doesn't mean you shouldn't be excited that someone wants to take it to the next level.
I want to be reasonable with allotted time. So I am thinking next December to early 2012 is when Project:King Leonidus will return with 300..
The games have already begun.If you think stating whats available at the moment is hating... you need to grow up.
You asked the question and received the answer.
#81
02-08-2011 | 03:57 PM
Dont take things so personal....
I think i am going with ABF for now.... They seem to be inline with what my plans are.. Thanks for all the input guys.
#82
02-08-2011 | 04:13 PM
#83
02-08-2011 | 05:17 PM
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,836
Likes: 6
From: North Denver Colorado
The OP states that he has tuned standalone systems in the past, so you can stop nagging at YOU not being able to do it.
The S/W is based off of openport and is pretty much a rescaled version of openECU for the Mitsubishi EVO, a S/W system that has been around for the last 6 years and is really easy to use. I have the system for my R53 and learned how to do the basics in about a week, I am no computer wiz either. (HELL I still have problems working with Windows 7) As for a non MINI specific tuner tuning a MINI, Did BMW/PEUGOT add a mystery 5th combustion event into the Prince engine? Last I looked all 4 stroke engines go through the same cycling process weather its in a AUDI or a ZONDA they all do the same thing, and any tuner thats worth a damn can read the dataloggs and know what the engine wants.
I just sent Mike an email, asking for an ETA on the FA56.
The S/W is based off of openport and is pretty much a rescaled version of openECU for the Mitsubishi EVO, a S/W system that has been around for the last 6 years and is really easy to use. I have the system for my R53 and learned how to do the basics in about a week, I am no computer wiz either. (HELL I still have problems working with Windows 7) As for a non MINI specific tuner tuning a MINI, Did BMW/PEUGOT add a mystery 5th combustion event into the Prince engine? Last I looked all 4 stroke engines go through the same cycling process weather its in a AUDI or a ZONDA they all do the same thing, and any tuner thats worth a damn can read the dataloggs and know what the engine wants.
I just sent Mike an email, asking for an ETA on the FA56.
#85
02-08-2011 | 05:26 PM
#86
02-08-2011 | 05:52 PM
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,836
Likes: 6
From: North Denver Colorado
#87
02-08-2011 | 07:36 PM
I have not purchased an aftermarket performance ECU product for my Mini and do not have enough experience to advise anyone on the subject but IMO if Mynes can supply us a product that allows any talented turbo car tunner a tool to tune our turbo Minis then that alone is a possible step foward.
The other products that are being compared depend on a limited sources and few options for a dyno tune because they do not have a large number of locations and if a Mini owner has special wants or needs these have to be serviced from a remote location.
As I understand the situation a Mini owner can not take a Dimsport tool or a Cobb A/P to a local pro tuner and expect to get a map for their ECU unless that tuner has invested in products required to generate performance maps for either or both tools and because of that things seem very limited at this time.
It looks like the Mynes tool opens the ECU to any pro tuner so a Mini owner can choose a great local tuner and can dyno tune if desired. It seems with the Mynes tool opening the ECU for any tuner a Mini owner has more options to get a tune that is specific to their Mini. BTW I know a bad or unqualifed tuner can turn these optons into a nightmare.
The other products that are being compared depend on a limited sources and few options for a dyno tune because they do not have a large number of locations and if a Mini owner has special wants or needs these have to be serviced from a remote location.
As I understand the situation a Mini owner can not take a Dimsport tool or a Cobb A/P to a local pro tuner and expect to get a map for their ECU unless that tuner has invested in products required to generate performance maps for either or both tools and because of that things seem very limited at this time.
It looks like the Mynes tool opens the ECU to any pro tuner so a Mini owner can choose a great local tuner and can dyno tune if desired. It seems with the Mynes tool opening the ECU for any tuner a Mini owner has more options to get a tune that is specific to their Mini. BTW I know a bad or unqualifed tuner can turn these optons into a nightmare.
Last edited by Octane; 02-08-2011 at 07:43 PM.
#88
02-08-2011 | 08:16 PM
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,836
Likes: 6
From: North Denver Colorado
Yes Your last sentance (Well for that matter your entire post) is 100% correct Octane.
I'm not trying to discourage people from using Jan and ALTA's remote tuning options, they do great work, and the results have worked for many people out there. I just personally belive that they just arent the best option for the OP.
In order to get to his goal, that car is going to require LOTS of time straped to a dyno (Or but NOT RECOMENDED lots of time doing 3rd-4th gear TIMED pulls out on a back road somewhere) MULTIPLE times to get tuned for the required hardware. Its not really something that can be done over remote, due to the time involved.
Mynes S/W allows for more time to be spent LOCALY, and not have to wait on the big tuners time constraints. However if somebody who dosent understand proper AFR, and timing curves enough to know when the engine is in danger of going boom, THEY or YOU can make too big of an adjustment too quick, not realize the mistake, and make a BRICK out of your car pretty quick. If you plan on learning to tune yourself seek the help of a pro and learn from them before begining. After all it is a skill, that is learned, tuners are not geese they werent born knowing exactly how to set engine controll peramiters.(As much as they would like to belive they where.) It was a skill that was learned, and who knows maby someone else will learn a better way, and be able to put more power down with less hardware than the last guy.
I'm not trying to discourage people from using Jan and ALTA's remote tuning options, they do great work, and the results have worked for many people out there. I just personally belive that they just arent the best option for the OP.
In order to get to his goal, that car is going to require LOTS of time straped to a dyno (Or but NOT RECOMENDED lots of time doing 3rd-4th gear TIMED pulls out on a back road somewhere) MULTIPLE times to get tuned for the required hardware. Its not really something that can be done over remote, due to the time involved.
Mynes S/W allows for more time to be spent LOCALY, and not have to wait on the big tuners time constraints. However if somebody who dosent understand proper AFR, and timing curves enough to know when the engine is in danger of going boom, THEY or YOU can make too big of an adjustment too quick, not realize the mistake, and make a BRICK out of your car pretty quick. If you plan on learning to tune yourself seek the help of a pro and learn from them before begining. After all it is a skill, that is learned, tuners are not geese they werent born knowing exactly how to set engine controll peramiters.(As much as they would like to belive they where.) It was a skill that was learned, and who knows maby someone else will learn a better way, and be able to put more power down with less hardware than the last guy.
#89
02-08-2011 | 08:53 PM
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,836
Likes: 6
From: North Denver Colorado
#90
02-09-2011 | 09:25 AM
Banned
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 636
Likes: 1
I'm pretty much done discussing this "upcoming tune" (see my previous post as to why). I'll let the new members learn the hard way (waiting and getting hopes up), but hopefully they'll come through and offer another option. I'm always all for advancements.
Until then, I'm thoroughly happy with my RMW tune, not just for the power, but the everyday driveability.
IMO thats what 75% of members (or more) on here are looking for, a daily driver that has more power for a fun daily. Only a handful of people have their mini as a dedicated weekend/track car or even just a very aggressive daily that is less reliable than others (in terms of pushing limits and having higher risks of things going wrong). While its not impossible to have a standalone be tuned for every driveability, the time and research that'll go into learning how to self-tune their car, and then only tune it to similiar what RMW/ALTA offers currently, may or may not be a waste of time invested. Keep in mind with the ECU mini has wired up, an ACTUAL standalone (not piggy back), will be difficult in getting all the ergonomics and luxuries to work along with it.
The OP here seems to be wanting to go all the way and push the car as hard as he can, so maybe a stand alone is what hes looking for. Hes also on his 12th car in 24 months, which means at this rate he'll have the MINI for another month before moving on. Best of luck.
Until then, I'm thoroughly happy with my RMW tune, not just for the power, but the everyday driveability.
IMO thats what 75% of members (or more) on here are looking for, a daily driver that has more power for a fun daily. Only a handful of people have their mini as a dedicated weekend/track car or even just a very aggressive daily that is less reliable than others (in terms of pushing limits and having higher risks of things going wrong). While its not impossible to have a standalone be tuned for every driveability, the time and research that'll go into learning how to self-tune their car, and then only tune it to similiar what RMW/ALTA offers currently, may or may not be a waste of time invested. Keep in mind with the ECU mini has wired up, an ACTUAL standalone (not piggy back), will be difficult in getting all the ergonomics and luxuries to work along with it.
The OP here seems to be wanting to go all the way and push the car as hard as he can, so maybe a stand alone is what hes looking for. Hes also on his 12th car in 24 months, which means at this rate he'll have the MINI for another month before moving on. Best of luck.
Last edited by BostonR56S; 02-09-2011 at 09:31 AM.
#91
02-09-2011 | 09:38 AM
Lol i dont even want to think of tuning a utec for another auto. My wrx days consisted of a serial cable and raw format no GUI tuning...
I agree with you boston, thats what i was trying to relay. Too many things are incorporated with the system to be able to single out the ecu to a stand alone. I dont know of any stand alone that can make use of all the peripherals as of now.
I agree with you boston, thats what i was trying to relay. Too many things are incorporated with the system to be able to single out the ecu to a stand alone. I dont know of any stand alone that can make use of all the peripherals as of now.
Last edited by Bigprfed22; 02-09-2011 at 10:16 AM.
#93
02-09-2011 | 06:34 PM
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,836
Likes: 6
From: North Denver Colorado
Lol i dont even want to think of tuning a utec for another auto. My wrx days consisted of a serial cable and raw format no GUI tuning...
I agree with you boston, thats what i was trying to relay. Too many things are incorporated with the system to be able to single out the ecu to a stand alone. I dont know of any stand alone that can make use of all the peripherals as of now.
I agree with you boston, thats what i was trying to relay. Too many things are incorporated with the system to be able to single out the ecu to a stand alone. I dont know of any stand alone that can make use of all the peripherals as of now.
All of theese posts (except the sidetrack on downpipes, which I too have my own oppinions on.) are full of options and information, but it is still up to YOU to decide what option will work for you best.
Best of luck to all of you.
#94
02-14-2011 | 10:29 PM
From what I've heard its across the board when running higher boost with the MCS. MAP sensor will cause the car to cut boost at 22psi.
Alta has mentioned the issue in a few of their threads. I honestly haven't cared or been following much though, been kinda out of the loop due to lack of $$, but that is changing thanks to a new job. So I'm back around, ready to play again
Even where it is right now, the car has been an absolute joy for the 4 months. It's a little beast.
Alta has mentioned the issue in a few of their threads. I honestly haven't cared or been following much though, been kinda out of the loop due to lack of $$, but that is changing thanks to a new job
. So I'm back around, ready to play again Even where it is right now, the car has been an absolute joy for the 4 months. It's a little beast.
#95
02-15-2011 | 07:37 AM
Has anyone verified the differences in voltage capacity between the S and the JCW sensor? The reading abilities are all done via voltage... you could be right if the software can not translate the higher voltages maybe
.
. Jumping back a bit... i ended up putting a JCW MAP sensor on my car to see if that can fix the 22psi boost cut issue... same as alta... but something's in the software that makes it not matter for some reason... i've been trying to figure it out as well but with no luck... has to be some kinda sub map that's hit here or there when it sees boost creep or something... because it always hits either a boost cut or a P2885 code.
#96
02-15-2011 | 06:16 PM
Jumping back a bit... i ended up putting a JCW MAP sensor on my car to see if that can fix the 22psi boost cut issue... same as alta... but something's in the software that makes it not matter for some reason... i've been trying to figure it out as well but with no luck... has to be some kinda sub map that's hit here or there when it sees boost creep or something... because it always hits either a boost cut or a P2885 code.
As Jeff@ Alta has said in the past...they working on adding some MAP sensor calibrations to the AP software to be able to bypass the voltage limit issues on the S
#97
02-16-2011 | 06:55 AM
If they are then it would be a software issue to be able to translate the voltages to pressure readings and make compensations.
Oh technology... how i miss the good old MBC and high pressure fuel pumps w a regulator days.
Conquest tsi where have you gone lol
Oh technology... how i miss the good old MBC and high pressure fuel pumps w a regulator days.
Conquest tsi where have you gone lol
My 22psi boost cut's never throw codes luckily...just no boost lol
Czar said they both are 3-bar capable MAP sensors.
As Jeff@ Alta has said in the past...they working on adding some MAP sensor calibrations to the AP software to be able to bypass the voltage limit issues on the S
Czar said they both are 3-bar capable MAP sensors.
As Jeff@ Alta has said in the past...they working on adding some MAP sensor calibrations to the AP software to be able to bypass the voltage limit issues on the S
#98
02-16-2011 | 12:09 PM
The motor in the car is nothing new or super drag racing special still a stock displacement 1.6L, higher compression custom designed JE pistons (better turbo spool and torque), Carillo rods, stock crank so the bottom end isn't anything special. The head is a MEGAmini Stage3a with a cam designed for running a turbocharger. The track turbo is a Garrett GT2871R which is pretty crazy how lag-less it is. For example my motor is nearly identical except I have, MEGAmini cam for supercharged application , stock compression MEGAmini/JE pistons, and stock rods.
Last edited by checkmate2006; 02-16-2011 at 12:16 PM.