thanks

you aren't the only one this has happened to

No worries steve, I made this one up for you today. Had a car in today that had a worn coil. Car was running rough when it came in. Went out smooth as a baby with new plugs/wires/coil

 

Hey Jan so I just popped off my coil and sure enough its white just like in your picture. Why is it bad because it's white? Was that just a manufacturing change or does it turn white because its "burned out" or something like that? Any further explanation would be great. Thanks again for the tip. If this is all that was wrong with my car and I've been dealing with this for two years I'm gonna be grateful to you and mad as hell at myself! LOL

Steve

 

when they turn white from my experience it means they have degraded enough to start causing issues. Some cars are more sensitive to it than others. Once white though it's just a matter of time before it full on craps the bed. Good idea to change the plug wires while you are it with the STOCK ones

 

Yes another set of STOCK ones absolutely! Well hopefully I can find someone around me that they would maybe let me swap coils just to confirm it. If so then I really would like to make it to Norwich, CT for a tune, FINALLY! I'm just gonna put new wires, new plugs, and looks like a new coil and I should be good to go. Looks like there is still a spot or two open

 

better hurry an R56 just emailed me to get in

I have plug wires/coils in stock
$165 shipped if you need them

 

Rethink the correlation between the white encasement, and degraded coil. The early model coils were white underneath. I don't know the date of the color change, but all coils I've removed from 2002 and early 2003 are white, one is from a hydro-locked MC engine (2003) with 12k miles and it is white underneath.

 

Thanks for the input Keith. That is why I really wanna try and source a used one from the marketplace or find someone local that would let me swap to verify. If that is indeed the source of my problem hen I would be ecstatic but I'm always skeptical because I've been dealing with this for so long!

Steve

 

Does anyone know if there is any tests that I can run myself on the coil to determine if in fact it is degraded? Possibly an ohm spec across two coils or something like that?

 

you will need an oscope to do it properly
I have never seen one come white from the factory, and I have an 02 also. My GPs coil went white after 20k of street/track use

Had an 05 in the other day with 50k, car was running rough, changed out the coil and it was smooth as butter. Degredation happens over time, even in people.........

 

I was employed by Performance Dynamics in Sacramento CA many years ago blue printing distributors and and designing Performance Ignition systems on cars and boats. The shop had a Sun Distributor machine and Oscilloscope for electrical diagnostics.Although most of my skills later in years none automotive related I have had the honor over early history years to be helped with my short comings when it comes to automotive electronics by Christopher A. Jacobs,PhD,E.E. Retired.
There are currently 4 models available that can be used on the MINI and used by Mitsubishis, and Dodge Neon. They are the stock or OEM, MSD, ACCEL and Screaming Demon. The ACCEL coil currently does not offer the plug type and needs to have the MINI wire connector spliced for use on the MINI. All of the coils mentioned are engineered 77:1 turns ratio and same output and rise time. The better quality coils use copper or brass terminals. They are all plastic cased housing. They all use an EPOXY to seal the plates from the environment. Some use WHITE epoxy others grey or black. The WHITE is NOT an indication of a BAD coil.
You cannot use a DYNO to test a coils condition unless the DYNO is equipped with a scope to view the pulse cycles of the ignition coil and measure the voltage.
The most common cause of coil failure is heat second to exposure by moisture causes corroding of the metal parts and raises the electrical resistance. The next cause of coil failure is spark plug wire having a high ohm value usually because of wear or damage. And lastly low voltage to the coil can cause a heat buildup which can cause the coil to eventually fail. Vibration is not a concern with a transformer type unit as there is no fluid to contend with. So if the case cracks or breaks the coil will still function the same until the environment gets to it.
The MINIs ignition system is called waste spark. This means that the coil is firing 2 cylinders at one time. So in theory if a coil were to fail it would be on one of the two sides and not usually both at the same time. In most cases the ECU would illustrate a miss-fire code on two cylinders not just one if a coil was a problem.
The advice whenever possible stay with a stock coil. If an aftermarket coil with copper or brass terminals is available choose it over those not having those qualities.
Rumors of aftermarket coils for MINIs not being as good as stock coils are just that… rumors. Aftermarket coils and stock coils can not repair old or worn spark plugs, plug wire and poor under-hood maintenance. If you replace your coil and it fails SHORTLY look at other parts not the coil as inferior.

 

.......stupid iPhone.......

 

Being a maintenance engineer at a local hospital, working with hundreds of kinds of coils, a/c, pump starters, beds...ect, why would a coil turn white? I have never heard anything like this? Just isn't a characteristic of an electrical part, but I guess anything is possible? I might have to talk to the Bio Med guys Monday Plus Jan, have you ever hooked up a stock, MSD, or Screamin Demon up to an oscilloscope? To say MSD are POS is funny, I guess the millions that are out there all bad

 

Jim,
it's great to finally see you posting again.........been hiding under the stairwell with the rest of the gang? Missed you at Buttonwillow.... you could have seen what real performance was and is...............

regardless, having worked with numbers of Mini's that would boggle your mind Jim, what experience with Mini Coopers do you have to base YOUR opinion on? Having had to replace many screamin demon and MSD coil packs to fix misfire issues is well documented. You can continue to believe how you like. I stand 100% behind the factory parts. They are the best out there that I have run reliably over and over.

Just for Jim............

 

RMW/Jan I know you do not like those aftermarket coils & I tend to agree with you. Very low on the bang for the buck scale. That being said this is a valid question. What can cause that & is something MINI owners should be looking for?

Thanks....

 

Degradation is most often caused be heat, lots of reasons for that heat, but I believe your question relates to silicone color change. Perhaps I also am misinterpreting the correlation between all early models and white encasements. We are told a poor performing coil requires sophisticated diagnostic tools to determine, but we are also told the indicator is as simple as the silicone turning white; Jan, please explain the process of the color change, must be more than a correlation to be so certain.

Web search engines show lots of resources for testing a coil, failure by appearance, and what symptoms manifest themselves when coils go bad, but I can't locate any source, automotive or otherwise, that can explain a possible color change to white.

 

I bet if you replaced the DME with one without your toon would have fixed the misfire issue.

Jan's not going to answer you because he doesn't know the answer.

 

Posting again? Ive never stopped posting here? Plus I post on MT, M|U, and MA, how about you? Nathan take you off restriction yet?

Boogle my mind? Well since I work part time at "Custom Mini Shop" I would bet we see more Minis day to day than you see? Just yesterday there were 3 Pepper Whites, 2 Grey R56's, and 3 other R53's....bout you?

Well documented? Where? Show me. And BTW you just posted an OEM that you said was bad, so seems OEM's go bad to? Plus, why dont you post your Electronic credentials for us....how long have you been doing electronics?

You say, "I stand 100% behind the factory parts." So....what S/C you running in your race car? What header, what cam? What else not stock? Yea thought so


Cool to see Minis out there on the track though Keep it up

 

well.........jim....................
I've been doing electronics since 1986 to be exact........... even went to school for it, graduated top of my class......to be exact.........
funny I haven't seen you post on MT........I do feel for you though.....placing all your trust in people who can't even challenge a street car must be frustrating......... I know I would have been.....

this is exactly why I don't listen to internet "experts"...... while they dream about it...........I do it............


Jim, we have gotten more hp out of the Stock blower than ANYONE.....PERIOD.......... our records and championships prove it
thanks for reminding everyone of that fact...... I really don't know what I would do without someone like you. You are welcome to come to the track and see what a fast Mini really looks like........even at full weight
We ALWAYS use the stock parts when we can........they are better than some of the junk we see out there.......FACT

so next someone at the dealership will chime in here and say they see more Mini's than me too............wow.........brilliant jim......
Still waiting for you to come down and throw your car on the dyno.....I'll gladly pay for it
So when I see 600+ Mini's at the dragon I get a cookie??? Please.....

Of course I'm on restriction at MA.......I'm NOT A VENDOR..........duh!

 

RMW/Jan if you don't want to answer that question fine. I figured if you said it it must be something of value. Guess not.

Have fun guys.

 

So you are telling us that they actually change color ? really ?

Randy
m7 tuning

 

He is a little confused...

EARLY MODEL COIL = WHITE

LATE MODEL COIL = BLACK

Colour has nothing to do with it been a good or bad coil.

 

You know this whole back and forth thing has been going on for years now. Why people that post on here can't seem to realize that words on a computer screen don't mean crap is beyond me. RMW says, in his experience which we obviously can see he has a lot, a white coil "generally" is a sign it has "degraded". I'm sure that has value to it. Then we have the other side chiming in, which I totally appreciate, saying the color has nothing to do with the state of the coil. This could also be true. But why should anyone just listen to YOU?!? This is why I wanna try and get a used one or find someone local to swap with to actually see if its bad. Jan could very well be right, but who knows really??? I really dont feel like "guessing" and buying a $110 part because its a certain color. I don't think anyone would ever do that regardless of their "so called loyalty" bs. Anyway thanks for the info about the oscilloscope. That's way above my level and so a used coil/swap is gonna have to be the way I'm gonna go.

To D-MAN, I have a late '05 Aug Build ('06 builds started in Oct) so when you say late model is black, how "late" are you talking? They must have switched many many years into production. If I'm gonna try to source a used one and try to prove the theory of black vs white what model year should I be looking at then?

WOW talk about a hijacked thread! To the OP I'm sorry. I was just trying to get some more information on my problem. I've posted about it in the past and this is the farthest I've ever gotten as far as tips on self diagnosis.

Steve

 

The old coil off my 03 MCS, was working just fine when I took it off

 

one thing to remember.....MOST auto makers utilize DUAL sources for many/most parts....so the color may not be date related, but rather from a different factory, plant, or manufacturer....
What Jan/RMW has stated is simply that in his experiences the white ones tend to fail more....maybe he phrased it to sound like it changes color...but the simple fact is the OEM coil DOES tend to PHYSICALLY corrode at the nickel plated iron (rather than the brass used on aftermarket) terminals...electrically, I'm sure there could be tons of arguments...just remember with electrical power, it is NOT JUST VOLTS or AMPS, but both, ALONG WITH DURATION....
I'm 100% sure the basic design could be tweaked by a supplier...to up one statistic...but that would likely hurt another...you would need to study all 3 (or with 3 different OEM variations make that 6) coils with some equipment (all new of course...) to see what is the "best"......
But what is actually the best...I bet the OEM did spend more $$ on researching it than MSD or ScreaminDemon...they are after all "generic" parts, good for MULTIPLE uses.....

That having been said, I use a MSD coil...no issues...but did not expect power from it...was just cheaper than OEM with brass terminals, and the company has a pretty good reputation in the aftermarket ignition market...

 

Here is my stock coil from my sept build 02. The white epoxied coil was used heavily in 02 and into the 03 model year as well . Not sure much beyond that . It worked just fine when I pulled it out and dropped in a MSD which has worked just fine for the last 4 years as well . You make some very good points above . Additionally there is NO WAY a coil would change to a white shade . If anything it would go the other way and go darker from heat . Some things you read and see on here are beyond belief.

randy
m7 Tuning