StopTech
http://www.waymotorworks.com/stoptec...brake-kit.html

Wilwood
http://www.waymotorworks.com/wilwood...-kit-12.2.html

Whats the difference? Besides $1000.00

 

The Brembo would possibly fit into your warranty package, if warranty is still an issue for you.

I love my Brembo BBK, it really puts the S in stop.

 

Do you mean wilwood vs. Stoptech? I know back when I had an evo all the evo guys would switch to the stoptechs, but I don't know much about the wilwood set up.

 

I hate to do this but I must point out. BBK = Big Brake Kit, BBK Kit = Big Brake KitKit.

Not a big deal, made me laugh though.

 

Being exclusively in the BBK (kit?) business there are three things you have to consider for you intended purchase:

1. What size wheel are your running? What size can you fit with regard to your chosen wheel diameter?

2. What is your intended use for the kit? A daily driver hardly needs 15lb rotors, but a serious track user would do well to have more mass.

3. What's your budget? No point in shopping a Ferrari if you can only afford a Fiesta right?

Reality: Pick Two.

I don't know anyone who hits the trifecta of a BBK purchase. There are pros and cons to all the offerings on the market. Consider the three elements and see what the pros and cons are for your own car is a good starting point.

 

I have question is there a build quiality difference between the stoptechs, wilwoods, or brembos? Or if you have equal brakes say 4 piston calipers and the same size rotor is the stopping the same, and the brake fade the same?

 

Defining 'build quality' of each is tough. Clearly the larger and beefier parts will be more rigid and longer lasting. But also come at the expense of more weight, fit issues and less serviceability.

ST builds some very nice parts. So too does Brembo. And so too Wilwood. If one were to feel that twice the price means twice the product that's hard to wrap your mind around.

Twice the price or more mass, larger rotors etc is not a guarantee of shorter stopping distances either. If max deceleration is achieved with brand X tire then it's the same regardless of the brake stopping it- think of stopping on ice. Does it matter what brakes you use? Gains are minimal really but BBKs are not about distance.

Where larger brakes and fixed mount calipers come into play and do aide to a small degree are these areas: response time, pedal feel, fade resistance, and rotor torque.

If you increase the ability of the tire and not the brake you can be left with less brake torque then you can easily generate with the stock brakes in a short time. Time is time right? Thus time is also distance. Getting to the max torque (or skid) quicker means your braking distance can be shortened some.

Feel and response are benefits of any fixed mount caliper. They clamp more efficiently without slider mechanisms and have less draw back. Thus again; time. Feel from the piston clamping is often more firm and shorter also. Modulation improves...thus time decreases, so to distance can. Still limited to tire adhesion.

Fade is simple. More mass is mass. Less or no overheating assures you of the same Cf all the time and lowers the duty cycle of the rotor when it's larger. Cooling is also improved as the efficiency level goes up and the 5 stop is the same as the first one.

Following me?

 

Yeah I think I understand, Now I don't mean to hijack this thread but do have a question, say I will be tracking the car and running a 17 inch rim what do you think is the best bang for the buck set up?

 

I'm a big stoptech fan, but Todd TCE's wilwood kits are pretty darn good in the bang for the buck department and I wouldn't think twice if ended up with them. Luckily, i'm too broke to worry about anything.

- Andrew

 

Yeah I know a lot of people who run stoptechs, just was never really sure how much you were paying for name

 

I have no problems saying the ST kits are a fine product. The two biggest issues with them for the street enthusiast buyer are rotor mass and wheel fit. You simply don't require a 14lb rotor for a daily driver/occasional track day car. They offer zero benefits for daily use, but do shine for hard extended track day apps. This combined with the caliper body size (of course it's mega stiff; it's also very big and heavy) makes wheel fit without spacers a helluva challenge. If you need this level of product it's a worthy purchase and would compare to my P4 kits- also with 1.10" rotors. *Not dissing the product just noting the down sides is all.

To speak about the wheels, my feeling is that if you have 17s or more that it's nearly foolish to not go to 13" rotor. Minimum kit the 12.2 size. In short you can't go wrong with more rotor- until it's all just more than you need or want to try and fit. (my 14" kit is great for 18s but it to suffers from being fat)

With that in mind you can see how I say "Pick Two". Size = price, Size = fit, etc. There's just no free lunch. You're going to gain in some respect and give in others.

 

I would concur with Todd regarding the large rotor mass and street. The only reason you would put something that big on for the street is for looks and perhaps some bragging rights.

I looked into this for a long time before deciding to get the TCE plus 3 with 13" x .92" rotors. The main thing you gain is consistency on the track and some better brake modulation. I have to say that getting rims for the BBK can be somewhat challenging even with the plus 3.

 

What size rims and what offset fits the best?

 

What size kit do you want?
And why would you change the offset?

 

Only 17" or larger rims fit the TCE plus 3 kit I have. Some OEM rims like the pace spoke and s-lites are problems. Some like the web spoke and crown spokes do fit with a 5 mm spacer. I cannot even talk about aftermarket because there are so many with all sorts of small differences that is not captured in the offset.

Alex from tirerack and Todd from TCE have been very helpful with fit questions.

As Todd has put it, what do you want to do with the car will determine your better choices for BBKs.

 

Andy your wheel selection and fit based upon spoke design, not offset. You could have two wheels; one needing 10mm spacers and the other with 5mm to spare with the same offset. Clearance is by wheel design mainly.

 

Ive had both and I miss the look of those 13" rotors behind my 18s on my R53 but as far as whats needed Todd has hit it on the head. What are you gonna use them for? Even with the added weight of the clubbie the wilwoods perform very well with their BP30 pads. I ran HP+ on my stoptechs. Pads are a huge variation too. 13" Stoptechs with hps pads will feel similiar to a 12.2 wilwood kit with more aggressive pad.

 

For me it would be for of course daily driving and some track days.

 

How many track days per year?

 

I am just getting back into, but hopefully a couple times a month.

 

If you get around 15-20 days a year, you should seriously consider something larger with more mass such as the TCE plus 3.

 

I'd tend to agree. While the smaller kits would suffice for a few days abuse a year the larger kits are going to be in it for the duration; more rotor mass, much bigger pads, more pad options etc.

"A couple of times a month" is no light track day use by any stretch. A couple of times a year is.

 

If you had bigger rotors even on a DD the rotors and pads would last longer?

 

Hard to place a life cycle on pads and rotors. Too many variables in use. But...I'd say clearly a larger rotor and it's increase in swept area would out last the stock rotor- unless at the same time it became your hard core track car also.

Pad life could be the same, longer or shorter depending upon what you're comparing to. Compounds being the same the larger rotor won't work the pad quite so hard taking advantage of a bit more 'leverage' to achieve the same torque rather than clamping the crap out of the rotor. But you must also look at the total cubic inches of the pads as well to draw some comparison also.