A wild idea walked in my path today and concerns the fuel pump.


Now a little back story. We all know that the R56 fuel pump is inadequate and regardless if it is replaced under warranty or not it will fail again. We also know that for those who are trying to get more power this is a shortcoming as the fuel pump does not pump enough fuel. With no real pump out there to help us out there we are in a loop of stock, fail, replace with stock, fail again. Now the BMW 1 series had an issue with fuel pumps and BMW so graciously replaced them with a better pump instead of just extending the warranty.


My idea is in switching to the BMW fuel pump. Either the 1 series or higher. So the idea revolves around if it would even work? If it does work will it fit? The other lines are does have a higher output? I have all these question and ideas that it is worth possibly considering. Do you guys have any thoughts on this idea?

 

Which pump are you speaking of for the R56:

This one in the fuel tank ?



or this one up front ? The HPFP. ( high pressure FP)



It has been the latter (part #1) which has been failing, and a supersession to the original part is what's replacing it.

Haven't heard any issues with repeated failures of the new one yet.....

 

They never fixed it. They just extended the warranty. And I speak of the HPFP the one by the tank.

 

Porthos, I think you are a little bit confused.
The HPFP is not by the tank. It's located in the engine bay on the right hand side of the cylinder head and it's a 140bar pump.
The other one which is the cylindrical one in the photo is an in-tank pump with integrated filter located inside the tank and it's a 5bar pump.
Now, I replaced my HPFP (faulty part) some years ago and I haven't noticed any defect since. Plus the fact that my engine runs much higher horsepower than stock for nearly 3 years.

 

So I got them backwards. Regardless the question still stands has anyone thought of possibly upgrading to one of the BMW hpfps to try increase the output? And ThePenl we are not going down the path of large HP numbers again. What you consider large might not be the same as whatever one else does. Just saying.

 

The stock HPFP is adequate till 300bhp. If anyone is passing that border should consider contacting Czar as he is the only one, that I know, who produced his own 200bar pump for the N14 engine to feed more than 300bhp.
If there is an alternative to that it would be nonetheless interesting.

 

can you get the new one even if the old hasn't failed? my jcw is under warranty and I don't want to get out of warranty, then have it fail

 

They up'd the warranty on the HPFP to like 120k miles, so I think you're fine Dan

I could have sworn MINI was already doing this, replacing the failed MINI HPFP's with the BMW version, but I could be wrong.

 

^^^this.

The stock HPFP provides plenty of fuel up to ~300hp. Not sure where you are concluding that it inadequately supplies fuel?

BMW/MINI has been through a few redesigns of the HPFP as far as I know. They would not extend the warranty just to replace it with the same defective parts. Are there still issues present.....yes, but most that I know of that have been replaced usually stay working.

 

I am talking above the limit of what the stock one can push out. I just stated some other information. I am not saying it is inadequate for a lightly modified, I am saying for people that are eventually going to hit over 300hp.

 

and you can count that number on 1 hand... The N14 just isn't in that league. It's so small a # it really isn't worth talking about.

 

And talk like that is exactly why we aren't there yet.

 

300 horsepower out of a 1.6L is better than three horsepower per cubic inch. There are very smart people working on tuning and modifying the N14, but I suspect that there will never be more than a handful of people running at those levels, compared to the number of MINIs out there. At those power levels, aren't you dealing with constraints and requirement beyond what most people will tolerate in a daily driver, or even an occasional weekend fun car? Things like a steady diet of race fuel, water/meth injection, tunes that aren't very drivable on the street, etcetera?

In other words, I don't think anyone has given up on the N14, I just don't think very many people are going to want to put up with what you have to do in order to get 300 horsepower out of it.

 

can you buy a new pump from real OEM? would it be the whole set up in the bottom pic you need?

 

replaced fuel pumps are different. BMW is not replacing the pumps with defective parts if your pump fails within warranty you will recive a proper pump. if you dont have the extended warranty no sweat you already have the good pump......or BMW is out to get you and exluded just your car :P with that said, The reason MINI's are making 300 plus is because of the lack of options to get you there. 1.6 litre engines have plenty of displacment, there just is a solution to produce that kind of power. but. why you ask....? becasue no one can support the added air. the only people to brave the tuning waters was cobb. and they are stuck at 20 psi due to the map sensor. Jeff at Alta is working his tail off to try and get cobb to produce a fix for the celing were hitting, and when it happens the flood gates will open. with a 3 or 4 bar map sensor avaialbe the fabircators will be able to justify turbo kits. trust me folks its only a matter of time.

 

The stock MAP sensor has a working pressure limit of 3bar.

 

Yes - the idea sucks. (I am kidding, a little) All of the hpfp (Bosch design) are having failure problems in BMWs regardless of which model vehicle they are used in. I sit in a meeting at BMW about once a week and they are on something like the 27th design revision. Unfortunately, it's just not a good design and it won't get any better from Bosch because BMW will not be spending money to radically improve a design for an existing vehicle platform. if you really, really, really wanted and needed the bigger pump to make more power, there are aftermarket solutions. Retrofitting the 1 or 3 series hpfp would give you the same failure prone design you already have.

 

This is go and bad news so when my fuel pump packs in from bosch bad design where can i get aftermarket 1 for more power?

 

3 bar acutal. and its not really a three bar its like a 2.7xxx 20 psi limit. three bar over atmospheric is something like 30 lbs. more then we will ever need. to be perfectly honest a 2 bar is really all we ever need.

20 psi, is more then enough to make power, we just need to open up the lungs a bit 20lbs on big lift cams and huge ports is a hell of alot more power then 20 psi on a stock head.

 

You say that there are aftermarket solutions for the HPFP for the R56, if so can you please post manufacturer, P/N, expected dilivery lead time and cost.

 

Not aftermarket solutions for the R56 - all I've ever heard of were "upgrades" for the BMW pump and that was on the word of a bimmer guy. I did a little digging and did find that alamo motorsports does make an uprated replacement pump for BMW but with the disclaimer that it is intended for modified engines. Looks to be around $150, so I would expect that range when somebody gets around to supplying the Mini market.

 

A $150 HPFP?

Run far away from that...

 

^^^^^^
+1

Maybe he meant the low pressure in tank pump.

 

Yea people seem to be confusing the two in this thread....they are NOT remotely the same.

 

Well, no actually. I helped produce the in tank pump and the fuel injectors, though my real expertise is O2 sensors. My original point was that dumping a BMW hpfp into a Mini would be a waste of time since they are as bad if not worse. I probably shouldn't have included hearsay from a BMW guy about aftermarket availability since somebody skimmed it and jumped right to the conclusion that I had part numbers and supplier info for their Mini. Not wanting to leave the question open, I used my mystical google powers to at least provide an answer and some clarification.
The main point is that the BMW (Bosch) pumps are crap and they won't be getting any better. I do know this first hand from BMW but can't really elaborate because I do like keeping my job.