Drivetrain (Cooper S) MINI Cooper S (R56) intakes, exhausts, pulleys, headers, throttle bodies, and any other modifications to the Cooper S drivetrain.

Drivetrain Tuning/upgrading the N14 engine

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #1  
Old 04-19-2012 | 08:07 AM
sspreso11's Avatar
sspreso11
Thread Starter
|
2nd Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Tuning/upgrading the N14 engine

I've been reading up on tuning the N14 engine and wanted to confirm my conclusions. I will edit/correct anything per feedback and hopefully others will find the results useful. I also listed everything in a general order of install.

1) Accessport (AP) best bang for buck improvement. Via it's canned tunes, the AP helps address throttle by wire issues (vague throttle, non-linear response) and also increases power. Power improvements come via increased boost and timing (over simplifying I know). This is often referred to as Stage 1.

2) Since boost is increased, installing an Oil Catch Can (OCC) would be a good move to help with carbon build up on valves. Carbon build up is a bigger issue because of the engines being direct injected. While doing the OCC install you can also do the PVC delete by installing a boost tap or using a plug kit. It may not be a bad idea to install an OCC regardless of your performance goals.

3)A Cold Air Intake (CAI) doesn’t net any huge power gains. If anything, a CAI will improve the turbo spool up more than raw power output. Depending on your engine, you can also do the intake noise maker delete.

3a)The Blow-off Valve (BOV) can be upgrade with a stiffer spring (either with a new BOV or upgraded spring kit) to help the turbo hold boost during shifts. No power increase, but more consistent power delivery during multi-gear shifts. Some are also upgrading their diverter valve for similar results.

4)Exhaust upgrades have an entire range of options. In order to move onto a Stage 2 map you will need to upgrade to either 3” high-flow catalytic converter (cat) system or a 2.5” catless system. There is potential for a small power increase here along with some weightloss. Even if power isn’t increased that much, the improved exhaust flow will result in better engine response.

5)The front mounted intercooler (FMIC) on a mini is very small. It can easily suffer from something called heat soak. This means that it isn’t cooling the air charge as well as it could. The warmer the intake temp, the less power an engine can make. To reach Stage 3 you will need to upgrade to a high flow FMIC. Again, net power gains are minimum, but this upgrade is really to prevent power loss and lessen the strain on the engine caused by excessive heat loads.

5a)Hot/Cold side pipe upgrades. This is swapping out the plastic bits of tubing on the intake side with either hard metal pipes or some other stiffer material. No real power increase, but as boost is turn higher and higher this can prevent collapsing issues. Also provide smoother airflow for the intake. Throttle response improvements have been noticed/claimed with these upgrades.

6)Water-Meth Injection Kit isn’t an upgrade to an existing system as much as adding a new intake/air charge cooling system to the engine. Since the system is basically spraying an alcohol mix into the air, this dramatically cools the intake air temp allowing for the engine to be tuned for more power. Even if you do not do a custom tune to gain extra power from the Water-Meth kit, it is adding a margin of error when turning the boost higher. Also helps with the carbon build up mention in #2. Some have opted to do Water-Meth instead of an upgrade/bigger FMIC.

7)Bigger turbo. If you have a MCS you can upgrade to a JCW turbo for a slight increase and true bolt-on ease of install, otherwise you will need to spend some significant money on getting your current turbo upgrade to larger internals, or purchase a big turbo kit. Solid power gains, but at this point you have pretty much maxed out the engine and will be looking at custom tuning, piggy back ECUs and fuel system upgrades if you go with big turbo.


Some resulting questions:
What is stage 4? I have seen that tossed around a bit lately.
Has anyone successfully converted a N14 to run E85? This seems very popular with other turbo cars.
 

Last edited by sspreso11; 04-19-2012 at 12:06 PM.
  #2  
Old 04-19-2012 | 08:38 AM
SooperCuperErik's Avatar
SooperCuperErik
4th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 566
Likes: 5
Wow. I applaud you. You've come on here and done the proper research and banged out each aspect almost spot on. Much more productive/effective than "uhh how do i make moar powerz? I want a loud exhaust, 3" no cat for best flow. Then I will do GT28RS upgrade" HA.

The only comments i'd make are, the accessport is typically just a canned tune. There are many places offering tuning now, and with fine tuning on the dyno can result in more power, which i'd recommend since each car is different.

As for the pipes, many people are running 18-19psi on stock pipes and have not had collapse issues. The only thing that happened to me is the "outlet" of the pipe that mates to the turbo hotside inlet became brittle from extreme heat cycles, likely from the higher boost. Otherwise, you won't be seeing too many daily drivers pushing beyond 22psi, since that is a MAP sensor limit on the S cars, and becomes dangerous on stock internals.

I myself don't like "stages" since they are so vague and can be interpreted in so many ways. A stage 3 car also varies from car to car. What is known as a "stage 3" mini is merely a stage 1/2 in other cars. Typically Stage 3 involves different turbos etc, but again, it varies from car to car. With all the mods you've listed, the biggest "adders" ontop of what people typically do is- getting tuned for water/methanol. This can yeild an additional 15-20whp, which is huge on an already tuned mini. You can gain some torque, and yield about 250/250 whp/wtq on an S (with custom tuning this is).

If you jump to a JCW turbo, you'll definitely want water/methanol to keep those combustion chamber temperatures down, or you'll risk seeing detonation/piston ring failure. However, on an S, this will yield even more power, with possibilities of nearing 300wtq, provided you deal with boost cuts properly etc.

Ontop of that you're basically looking into custom rods/pistons, at which point you could potentially go bigger turbo, but thats a whole new ballgame.

I think you'll find yourself VERY happy with 250whp/250wtq... as you will pull many cars in a straight line @ the track. power to weight ratio is key.

Good luck and feel free to ask more questions!
 
  #3  
Old 04-19-2012 | 11:47 AM
ljmattox's Avatar
ljmattox
5th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 920
Likes: 2
From: St. Louis metro area USA
Kudos on the level of research you've done!

Only thing I'd add / amend would be the #2 oil catch can discussion. From my reading, it's a great idea regardless, as the combination of direct injection plus some anomalies with these engine's PCV system make them prone to carbon buildup. A catch can helps, even on stock engines.
 
  #4  
Old 04-19-2012 | 12:03 PM
sspreso11's Avatar
sspreso11
Thread Starter
|
2nd Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Thanks for the input so far. I know there isn't just one way to tune the vehicle, but by this point in lifespan of the cars, I figured there are a few constants.
 
  #5  
Old 04-20-2012 | 03:31 PM
2009R56JCW's Avatar
2009R56JCW
4th Gear
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 493
Likes: 1
From: Florida
What is stage 4? I have seen that tossed around a bit lately.


ported and polished head with cc'ed combustion chambers with larger valves
aftermarket cams with more lift and duration
aftermarket pistons and rods
ported exhaust manifold
upgraded injectors
hybrid turbo
 

Last edited by 2009R56JCW; 04-20-2012 at 03:44 PM.
  #6  
Old 04-21-2012 | 06:45 AM
richardsperry's Avatar
richardsperry
6th Gear
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,246
Likes: 6
From: Eldersburg, Md
Originally Posted by 2009R56JCW
What is stage 4? I have seen that tossed around a bit lately.


ported and polished head with cc'ed combustion chambers with larger valves
aftermarket cams with more lift and duration
aftermarket pistons and rods
ported exhaust manifold
upgraded injectors
hybrid turbo

And a VERY large diameter hole in your wallet...lol
 
  #7  
Old 04-21-2012 | 11:12 PM
lukwen's Avatar
lukwen
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 60
Likes: 3
I don't know! Shrick cams offers a wonderful mild sport cam package that works with the stock ECU for the n14 engine a person lookin to get in to first would happy about the choice they made. Number one the mini cooper in a sense to me was meant to be gone through like some people change there oil regularly as a mini owner I like to go through it all regularly like a expensive touring bicycle. and I think that shrick does work real close with mini and bmw(hint,hint might off load that timing chain).
 
  #8  
Old 04-21-2012 | 11:19 PM
lukwen's Avatar
lukwen
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 60
Likes: 3
Ya know carillo rods,shrick cams,forged pistons first then think about cold air intake and what brand ya want!
 
  #9  
Old 04-21-2012 | 11:22 PM
lukwen's Avatar
lukwen
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 60
Likes: 3
in the end those cams,rods,and pistons will run you the same if not less then everything you listed at the top of this page.
 
  #10  
Old 04-21-2012 | 11:22 PM
lukwen's Avatar
lukwen
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 60
Likes: 3
and it will be real reguardless of a heat soaked hot august night in the biggest little city!
 
  #11  
Old 04-22-2012 | 12:44 AM
silhouette88's Avatar
silhouette88
5th Gear
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 750
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area
Point 2 should be stressed, the carbon build-up will rob you of power regardless if you're tuned for more boost or completely stock. I've heard of anecdotal evidence of 20-25 whp gains after the intake valves were cleaned, I truly believe that. water /meth injection won't remove already built up carbon. It does help prevent build up when it's injecting, but since you're not injecting all the time you will still have carbon build up issues. An OCC is a must have mod.
 
  #12  
Old 04-27-2012 | 09:14 AM
sspreso11's Avatar
sspreso11
Thread Starter
|
2nd Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Today I installed the BSH OCC. Didn't do the PCV delete yet. After much research this week, I'm pretty sure I'm going to do the AquaMist system next. Even at the cost of getting an AP until next year. Not going to worry about warranty. It's clear warranties are designed to cover the *** of the manufacture, not necessarily help the owner.
 
  #13  
Old 04-27-2012 | 12:11 PM
Porthos's Avatar
Porthos
OVERDRIVE
iTrader: (8)
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,455
Likes: 13
From: None yours!
Originally Posted by sspreso11
Today I installed the BSH OCC. Didn't do the PCV delete yet. After much research this week, I'm pretty sure I'm going to do the AquaMist system next. Even at the cost of getting an AP until next year. Not going to worry about warranty. It's clear warranties are designed to cover the *** of the manufacture, not necessarily help the owner.
You don't need to do a PCV delete on a Coupe. Doesn't have the same system as the 07-10 Cooper S/JCW.
 
  #14  
Old 04-28-2012 | 08:04 AM
czar's Avatar
czar
4th Gear
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 506
Likes: 30
From: UK
Originally Posted by Porthos
You don't need to do a PCV delete on a Coupe. Doesn't have the same system as the 07-10 Cooper S/JCW.
Yes he will get the benefit from the PCV delete, as although he has 2012 Coupe, he has the JCW coupe, and this still retains the N14 engine!

Unlike the Coupe S which will have the N18 engine.
 
  #15  
Old 04-28-2012 | 11:01 AM
DneprDave's Avatar
DneprDave
6th Gear
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,260
Likes: 86
From: Pacific NW
The Accessport is not just a canned tune. They can be tweaked for individual cars by tuners with Cobb Accesstuner Pro.

Dave
 
  #16  
Old 05-01-2012 | 01:05 PM
ThePenl's Avatar
ThePenl
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 222
Likes: 2
OP, your research is spot on. Well-done.

With the JCW N14 engine and the AP tune you should have plenty of power (edit: well you shouldn't, cause I just saw in your sig that it is a to-do next mod). And I doubt if the JCW has boost-cut problems like the MCS used to have. Having said boost-cuts, I should add that they are finally history...even for the MCS N14 engine over 22psi...

ps: by the way, what boost pressures/power/torque are you running at the moment? (edit: you are currently stock, my bad)

What I would suggest though is to have a look also at Evolve (they are a vendor here I think) and they can remote map your JCW via the Evolve-R OBD cable. Definitely worth it...
 

Last edited by ThePenl; 05-01-2012 at 02:31 PM.
  #17  
Old 05-01-2012 | 01:27 PM
SooperCuperErik's Avatar
SooperCuperErik
4th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 566
Likes: 5
Explain... How history? Still not hot enough here to try my solution yet. I thought you just revised your tune to run less boost?
 
  #18  
Old 05-01-2012 | 01:49 PM
ThePenl's Avatar
ThePenl
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 222
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by SooperCuperErik
Explain... How history? Still not hot enough here to try my solution yet. I thought you just revised your tune to run less boost?
I had the car thoroughly tested for mechanical defects (there weren't any) and ran the stock jcw-kit tune for a little while. Then done some upgrades...

Really hot around here at 90oF and boost cuts should have been present, but with my last tune they are history...it works like a charm.
Proof? I think you watched the videos I posted. Watch the left gauge (boost gauge) the 1,5bar mark is 22psi...the needle goes above and beyond the 1,5bar hitting 1,65bar (24psi).
According to load requirements (hill climb for instance) it may overboost to 1,75bar (25+psi) without any sort of boost cut.

if this proof is not sufficient I could post boost/AFR graph.


ps: what is your solution, if I may ask?
 
  #19  
Old 05-01-2012 | 01:53 PM
SooperCuperErik's Avatar
SooperCuperErik
4th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 566
Likes: 5
So you're saying you went to the jcw kit tune first, and then bumped up to the custom aftermarket tune?

You think there was something in the JCW tune that adjusted the MAP values to allow higher max psi value?

I thought it was only factory JCW tunes that would allow for this... hmm...


Oh, and my solution... I haven't posted about it yet, and I think I want to wait until I test it out before I say yay or nay. In theory it will work, and has worked with other cars running similar set ups. Its a pretty simple fix, but I need to see how the ECU will like it.
 
  #20  
Old 05-01-2012 | 01:57 PM
TazMinianDevil's Avatar
TazMinianDevil
4th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
From: KC Metro
Fleshed out my build plan further after reading more and additional comments.

Installing the NM torque mount insert this weekend along with the DOS Noisemaker delete. Also have the Alta spring upgrade to put in.

Ordering HFS-4 system in the next two weeks. Want to install and get it working well before my big track weekend in June. Also going to pick up an Innovate OT-2 ODBII reader so I can start monitoring Taz better.

After that I will get the AP and install a Stage 1 tune. Need to get a winter tire setup so can't do all the mods right away! Besides if I stagger the mods out, it will be like driving a new and improved car every few months.

My Stage 2 mods will be WMW or Riss Catless DP, NM charge/discharge pipes, Short throw upgrade, Swift Springs, AFR/EGT upgrade to the OT-2,

Stage 3 Catback upgrade for a full 2.5" turbo back, Custom Tune, sway bar upgrade 22mm, bushing upgrades, strut brace, shock upgrade/replacement.

Might do the intercooler upgrade and CAI at some point, but curious to see what can be done with the Water/Meth as primary intake upgrade.

ps. New car, new handle. So long sspreso11...
 
  #21  
Old 05-01-2012 | 02:02 PM
ThePenl's Avatar
ThePenl
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 222
Likes: 2
No no no Erik, I didn't mean that the JCW kit tune helped with the boost cuts. Just said that reverted to JCW-kit tune for a while until I get my custom made tune. Three years ago I got the JCW tuning kit and 6 months later had it mapped and have been experiencing the boost cuts since.
It is now that I have NO boost cuts whatsoever...

here is proof no.2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b97iEix8FE

boost gauge replay from 3rd gear till 6th.
 
  #22  
Old 05-01-2012 | 11:47 PM
turtle343's Avatar
turtle343
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
i love your vids
 
  #23  
Old 05-02-2012 | 09:45 PM
ThePro's Avatar
ThePro
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Wow! Great Job with the research, I'm subscribed.

I've gone from stock to the block and back, tried 4 turbos, now I'm running the stock turbo with larger internals. I have all the easy/simple/quick mods, which just basically remove the restrictions: CAI, Custom Intercooler, Larger/oversize piping from the turbo to the throttlebody, custom downpipe..

I will help you with any technical questions you have after you've made/installed any parts - Keep At It!
 
  #24  
Old 11-10-2013 | 11:28 PM
digolfa's Avatar
digolfa
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Did anyone in this above post address the value of installing bigger flow fuel injectors?
I've done all these mods and added a larger KO4 turbo and then dynode the thing..
BTW have a ULTIMATE CHIP piggy back DME controller deployed.
205 hp add drivetrain drag (25%) and u get approx. 255+ hp BUT really lean>> NEED MORE FUEL<< what to do????????????
simple: injectors!!!!
whose done it and what and where did they buy????
Please help!!!
Sorry to be annoying.... just that way in real life.
 
  #25  
Old 11-11-2013 | 10:06 AM
ThumperMCS's Avatar
ThumperMCS
6th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,582
Likes: 19
From: OC, CA
Originally Posted by digolfa
Did anyone in this above post address the value of installing bigger flow fuel injectors?
I've done all these mods and added a larger KO4 turbo and then dynode the thing..
BTW have a ULTIMATE CHIP piggy back DME controller deployed.
205 hp add drivetrain drag (25%) and u get approx. 255+ hp BUT really lean>> NEED MORE FUEL<< what to do????????????
simple: injectors!!!!
whose done it and what and where did they buy????
Please help!!!
Sorry to be annoying.... just that way in real life.
What makes you think the injectors can't give you enough fuel?

I will tell you right away....the injectors are not your issue. You are running lean because of the piggy back...you can't expect to run a K04 with a piggy back and have everything fine.

Get a proper ECU tune and you'll see you can get plenty of fuel with the stock injectors.
 



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:22 PM.