Drivetrain The Always Up-to-Date Thread on Tuning 2011+ (N18) MINIs
#452
#453
Very interesting conversation, gents. I very much enjoy learning from you, Theta and Scott.
I was going to pose the same question as you, Scott: If you installed a mechanical valve (e.g., Alta) instead of an electronic one (factory), would it help stave off boost loss?
Also, one other question: What if I kept the car in manual mode and shifted with the stick? Would it negate the issue?
I was going to pose the same question as you, Scott: If you installed a mechanical valve (e.g., Alta) instead of an electronic one (factory), would it help stave off boost loss?
Also, one other question: What if I kept the car in manual mode and shifted with the stick? Would it negate the issue?
#454
Very interesting conversation, gents. I very much enjoy learning from you, Theta and Scott.
I was going to pose the same question as you, Scott: If you installed a mechanical valve (e.g., Alta) instead of an electronic one (factory), would it help stave off boost loss?
Also, one other question: What if I kept the car in manual mode and shifted with the stick? Would it negate the issue?
I was going to pose the same question as you, Scott: If you installed a mechanical valve (e.g., Alta) instead of an electronic one (factory), would it help stave off boost loss?
Also, one other question: What if I kept the car in manual mode and shifted with the stick? Would it negate the issue?
wondered when you would jump in!
scott
#455
#456
#457
That's too bad about the throttle being cut. If you don't mind, I'm sure I'd enjoy reading the long version.
#460
Very interesting.
Are you fairly convinced that all that was due to the increased HP and TQ and not some changes to shift points or something?
If it is all due to the increased HP and TQ tripping out the torque converter in the auto trans (as I suspect), do you think there's a ceiling (in terms of HP and TQ numbers) that us auto guys can stay below without triggering such issues?
Also, while we're at it, what is the difference between a "Stage 1" and "Stage 2" tune? It seems to be mod dependent insofar as you only become eligible for a higher stage with more radical modifications.
But I'd always assumed that with the self-adjusting ECU, the stages were unnecessary? And if the tune files are written differently, what changes?
For example, if I tune through Renntech and tell them I have an Akrapovic DP, aftermarket FMIC, 2.75" exhaust, and an intake, are they going to write a different tune file that might be roughly equivalent to, say, NM's Stage 2?
Are you fairly convinced that all that was due to the increased HP and TQ and not some changes to shift points or something?
If it is all due to the increased HP and TQ tripping out the torque converter in the auto trans (as I suspect), do you think there's a ceiling (in terms of HP and TQ numbers) that us auto guys can stay below without triggering such issues?
Also, while we're at it, what is the difference between a "Stage 1" and "Stage 2" tune? It seems to be mod dependent insofar as you only become eligible for a higher stage with more radical modifications.
But I'd always assumed that with the self-adjusting ECU, the stages were unnecessary? And if the tune files are written differently, what changes?
For example, if I tune through Renntech and tell them I have an Akrapovic DP, aftermarket FMIC, 2.75" exhaust, and an intake, are they going to write a different tune file that might be roughly equivalent to, say, NM's Stage 2?
#461
Yes, it had nothing to do with the transmission programming, as there was nothing done to the TCM portion.
As you could see, it was based in the tq. delivered, etc. Once we went over 255 and 1.5 bar, it was just a nightmare. Again, fine for manual guys. It's just an auto problem.
Stage 1 does not require a FMIC. Stage 2 absolutely requires a FMIC. It's all about timing advancing - the more timing, the hotter it gets...
The best bet is to talk to the tuners and let them know your concerns and mods up front. For the most part, they're not going to push anybody past a certain line unless they know they're able to deal with problems, etc.
I specifically asked for something that was too hot for my car's transmission to handle. This is the main reason I went to the JCW manual platform, as I'm aiming for 300lb/ft.
As you could see, it was based in the tq. delivered, etc. Once we went over 255 and 1.5 bar, it was just a nightmare. Again, fine for manual guys. It's just an auto problem.
Stage 1 does not require a FMIC. Stage 2 absolutely requires a FMIC. It's all about timing advancing - the more timing, the hotter it gets...
The best bet is to talk to the tuners and let them know your concerns and mods up front. For the most part, they're not going to push anybody past a certain line unless they know they're able to deal with problems, etc.
I specifically asked for something that was too hot for my car's transmission to handle. This is the main reason I went to the JCW manual platform, as I'm aiming for 300lb/ft.
#462
Yes, it had nothing to do with the transmission programming, as there was nothing done to the TCM portion.
As you could see, it was based in the tq. delivered, etc. Once we went over 255 and 1.5 bar, it was just a nightmare. Again, fine for manual guys. It's just an auto problem.
Stage 1 does not require a FMIC. Stage 2 absolutely requires a FMIC. It's all about timing advancing - the more timing, the hotter it gets...
The best bet is to talk to the tuners and let them know your concerns and mods up front. For the most part, they're not going to push anybody past a certain line unless they know they're able to deal with problems, etc.
I specifically asked for something that was too hot for my car's transmission to handle. This is the main reason I went to the JCW manual platform, as I'm aiming for 300lb/ft.
As you could see, it was based in the tq. delivered, etc. Once we went over 255 and 1.5 bar, it was just a nightmare. Again, fine for manual guys. It's just an auto problem.
Stage 1 does not require a FMIC. Stage 2 absolutely requires a FMIC. It's all about timing advancing - the more timing, the hotter it gets...
The best bet is to talk to the tuners and let them know your concerns and mods up front. For the most part, they're not going to push anybody past a certain line unless they know they're able to deal with problems, etc.
I specifically asked for something that was too hot for my car's transmission to handle. This is the main reason I went to the JCW manual platform, as I'm aiming for 300lb/ft.
For reference, how much torque were you putting down when you were having issues?
I'd love to tune with Jan, but getting ahold of him is tough. Assuming I won't be able to get him to do it, RennTech is my next bet.
#463
Tuning is all about editing the fueling tables and ignition timings. At the base level of any gas-powered engine, more air and fuel equals hotter explosions, and the byproduct is more power generated per stroke.
If the ECU was able to vastly alter the fueling and timing tables, there would be no need for ECU tunes, now would there?
The ECU can severely retard timings, but the limits for advance are pretty strict. Same with fueling. If it was all an ECU-learn, we would just keep modding to the sky and it would scale nicely.
The level where the transmission started getting to be a pain in the *** was the 250-255 wtq range. The ALL4 system is good to 600wtq, so that's not the weak link.
RENNtech has a single tune, but a neat design with putting most of the power underneath the guise of the Sport button. NM has great tuning, as well. The Auto just holds us back from going hog-wild with the R60. Probably has a lot to do with weight, as well.
If the ECU was able to vastly alter the fueling and timing tables, there would be no need for ECU tunes, now would there?
The ECU can severely retard timings, but the limits for advance are pretty strict. Same with fueling. If it was all an ECU-learn, we would just keep modding to the sky and it would scale nicely.
The level where the transmission started getting to be a pain in the *** was the 250-255 wtq range. The ALL4 system is good to 600wtq, so that's not the weak link.
RENNtech has a single tune, but a neat design with putting most of the power underneath the guise of the Sport button. NM has great tuning, as well. The Auto just holds us back from going hog-wild with the R60. Probably has a lot to do with weight, as well.
#464
Tuning is all about editing the fueling tables and ignition timings. At the base level of any gas-powered engine, more air and fuel equals hotter explosions, and the byproduct is more power generated per stroke.
If the ECU was able to vastly alter the fueling and timing tables, there would be no need for ECU tunes, now would there?
The ECU can severely retard timings, but the limits for advance are pretty strict. Same with fueling. If it was all an ECU-learn, we would just keep modding to the sky and it would scale nicely.
If the ECU was able to vastly alter the fueling and timing tables, there would be no need for ECU tunes, now would there?
The ECU can severely retard timings, but the limits for advance are pretty strict. Same with fueling. If it was all an ECU-learn, we would just keep modding to the sky and it would scale nicely.
The level where the transmission started getting to be a pain in the *** was the 250-255 wtq range. The ALL4 system is good to 600wtq, so that's not the weak link.
Stock Performance for Cooper S N18: 181 HP / 192 TQ
Modified Performance for Cooper S N18: 221 HP, 232 TQ
RENNtech has a single tune, but a neat design with putting most of the power underneath the guise of the Sport button. NM has great tuning, as well. The Auto just holds us back from going hog-wild with the R60. Probably has a lot to do with weight, as well.
But if RENNtech only has one tune, why are they so insistent that you specify the mods you have? Is it because they will write a tune map that is a bit more aggressive (Stage 1+ ?) if I tell them I have a DP and an aftermarket FMIC?
#465
I think that may, indeed, be the case. I will be using them for my next tune, as I believe NM is not yet able to tune the 2013s.
Since they very much want to know what mods you have, I think it might be safe to assume they will tailor the "one tune" to you instead of breaking it up into stages.
Since they very much want to know what mods you have, I think it might be safe to assume they will tailor the "one tune" to you instead of breaking it up into stages.
#466
I think that may, indeed, be the case. I will be using them for my next tune, as I believe NM is not yet able to tune the 2013s.
Since they very much want to know what mods you have, I think it might be safe to assume they will tailor the "one tune" to you instead of breaking it up into stages.
Since they very much want to know what mods you have, I think it might be safe to assume they will tailor the "one tune" to you instead of breaking it up into stages.
Now all I need to do is figure out if I'm going to do with my intake setup before I get a tune since, unfortunately, it looks like the DoS kit is still a long way from coming to fruition. Probably just a drop-in panel filter from AFE in the meantime.
#467
Of course - that's what we're all here for.
You can go with any of the open-element kits as a hold-over, or use a panel filter. OR, if you're adventurous, you can try this cheap (but neat) idea: http://www.coopercrap.com/cc-cai-per...e-intakes.html
Not tried it, but could be a cheap fill-in!
You can go with any of the open-element kits as a hold-over, or use a panel filter. OR, if you're adventurous, you can try this cheap (but neat) idea: http://www.coopercrap.com/cc-cai-per...e-intakes.html
Not tried it, but could be a cheap fill-in!
#468
Makes sense. Thanks for answering all my questions, Theta. I appreciate your patience!
Now all I need to do is figure out if I'm going to do with my intake setup before I get a tune since, unfortunately, it looks like the DoS kit is still a long way from coming to fruition. Probably just a drop-in panel filter from AFE in the meantime.
Now all I need to do is figure out if I'm going to do with my intake setup before I get a tune since, unfortunately, it looks like the DoS kit is still a long way from coming to fruition. Probably just a drop-in panel filter from AFE in the meantime.
If you decide to go with NM's tune, just giving you a heads up that they recommend that we use a cone filter type compared to the drop in panel filter because the intake helps flow the tune better. I was close to going back to the drop in filter til they told me about it. Good luck!
#472
Hi guys,
New registered user but reading NAM since a while now and just read the whole thread, really great by the way. Here's little context:
I’m from Mexico City and I used to own a 2012 hardtop JCW (N14 engine) with some mods on it: Alta FMIC, hot side boost tube, 3” no restrictions turboback (massive sound), panel air filter and AccessPort among other non-relevant mods to this thread.
I sold the ’12 JCW to get a ‘13hardtop GP since I basically track the car (not daily driven), but the bummer is that the GP has the N18 engine, what brings me here.
Comments
1.- I’m assuming the GP engine is the standard N18 that all the 2011up models have, I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t think BMW/Mini will develop something exclusively for 2000 cars. At least I’m hoping so…
2.- Canned AP maps don’t work well for Mexican models, this because our cars are a blend between USDM/EUDM specs, this and the high elevation in Mexico City caused boosting issues (“Reduced Engine Power” in the visual boost screen), emission control CEL (lots of codes), and just the map not working properly. Alta’s support guy, Jeff Perrin gave me excellent support and worked with me like 5 different maps over time to ensure it worked well in city/track (finally it worked well). Other guy had same issues with RMW and still struggling with them.
I’m thinking in NM remap, but having to send the ECU back and forward from Mexico to get a right tune makes me think a lot about it I will talk with Jerry about my case and see what happens.
DOUBTS:
I’m thinking to install turboback, FMIC without having a remap, I’m hoping to have some better performance, because I feel the car really, really slow compared to the previous moded JCW. I know that the real gain of these mods comes along with the remap, but what do you guys think?
My Research:
ALTA/Cobb: Has no intention whatsoever to develop something for the N18 or even continue doing so for the N14, AP in ALTA and Cobb web pages is no longer there. This due the “bad business” it represents, this confirmed by Jeff Perrin when I asked for maps for the N18.
Evolve: Last time I asked (a month ago), they answered me that no remap was available, I will need to check again to see if they cracked the 2013
I just realize I wrote a damn bible, sorry about that and thanks for reading it
New registered user but reading NAM since a while now and just read the whole thread, really great by the way. Here's little context:
I’m from Mexico City and I used to own a 2012 hardtop JCW (N14 engine) with some mods on it: Alta FMIC, hot side boost tube, 3” no restrictions turboback (massive sound), panel air filter and AccessPort among other non-relevant mods to this thread.
I sold the ’12 JCW to get a ‘13hardtop GP since I basically track the car (not daily driven), but the bummer is that the GP has the N18 engine, what brings me here.
Comments
1.- I’m assuming the GP engine is the standard N18 that all the 2011up models have, I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t think BMW/Mini will develop something exclusively for 2000 cars. At least I’m hoping so…
2.- Canned AP maps don’t work well for Mexican models, this because our cars are a blend between USDM/EUDM specs, this and the high elevation in Mexico City caused boosting issues (“Reduced Engine Power” in the visual boost screen), emission control CEL (lots of codes), and just the map not working properly. Alta’s support guy, Jeff Perrin gave me excellent support and worked with me like 5 different maps over time to ensure it worked well in city/track (finally it worked well). Other guy had same issues with RMW and still struggling with them.
I’m thinking in NM remap, but having to send the ECU back and forward from Mexico to get a right tune makes me think a lot about it I will talk with Jerry about my case and see what happens.
DOUBTS:
I’m thinking to install turboback, FMIC without having a remap, I’m hoping to have some better performance, because I feel the car really, really slow compared to the previous moded JCW. I know that the real gain of these mods comes along with the remap, but what do you guys think?
My Research:
ALTA/Cobb: Has no intention whatsoever to develop something for the N18 or even continue doing so for the N14, AP in ALTA and Cobb web pages is no longer there. This due the “bad business” it represents, this confirmed by Jeff Perrin when I asked for maps for the N18.
Evolve: Last time I asked (a month ago), they answered me that no remap was available, I will need to check again to see if they cracked the 2013
I just realize I wrote a damn bible, sorry about that and thanks for reading it
Last edited by Diegs; 01-24-2013 at 03:24 PM.
#473