Just saw these 380cc injectors on rockauto, http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...900&cc=1432681 . They're the OEM equivalent for the JCW 380cc injectors. I was wondering if people had heard of these and if someone has any experience with these. I could barely find any info online, except for other places that sell them.

 

I too have been working on this fuel injector upgrade, I want to go to 440 or maybe even 550cc injectors (yes I know it will need a tune).

I am convinced that we can find the same injectors that were used in something else!

What I know so far:

Siemens
EV6 Body
High Impedance (12 to 14 ohm)
EV1 Connector (aka USCAR)
Spray pattern of 15 to 20 degrees - two jets (something from a Multi valve head?)

I am now in the process of tracking a car that used something in that range in hopes of finding an inexpensive alternative.

 

Jcw380's are a common upgrade...a few hundred threads on them....
Was std equipment on 2005+ JCW cars with the jcw210 kit...or upgraded to that standard....
Works best with a tune....car will be rich with a 15%, but OK with a 17%....some dealers do upgrades to the JCW tune on a regular car.....or do a custom tune....
Being OEM injectors, they do not need an adaptor harness...and have the RIGHT CONE spray pattern...if Your goal is about 200 HP....they work good....

 

Since they are non OEM 380's....
IMO stay away...
I have bought "standard" coils for another car....both failed about 8 months....Chinese junk.

 

And the oem injectors are Siemens.... Pretty sure..not bosh.

 

Alright, so those are out I guess. I did see that Helix has some affordable 380CC's with the correct spray pattern for sale for $350. I might do that. Just recently installed 17% pulley and I live in a hot climate in the summer with a steep highway to climb 5 days / week. Just want to prevent running lean. I haven't received any codes yet, so I might be fine.

Strange thing is that 550s or 440s are actually a lot cheaper than the 380s.

 

I have no intention of buying cheap Chinese, I am sure that there are other cars that use the 380 (or better BOSCH) injectors that you should be able to fine at the scrape yard or eBay, that will be drop in's

 

Folks have been trying for YEARS....
Tried redrils....alleged new laser drilled injectors are us...eBay crap....
Most get yanked after issues in a few thousand miles...
The jcw380 are OEM...quality...work...
Other ones from vendors seem too work well with tunes....and are known products to tuners...they know how to scale them....venture off the beaten path...you might save a buck on the injectors....then spend it on dyno time......
Risk vs reward.....known vs unknown. Vendors...whether m7 or wmw or helix or rmw have found the products that work....sell them....make a few $$ to make up for the research they did.....injector depot, injectors r us, etc have come and gone.....most huge failures.... Why install a product that can actually BLOW UP YOUR MOTOR if it fails.....just saying....

 

Oh I understand, but from what I have and understand both the mynes and the RMW Tunes use larger than 380cc units, so what are they using ??

 

And I strongly suggest...no scrap yard injectors...
Ever see a used injector with s good spray pattern? Heck most mini ones with more than 75,000 miles are junk...corroded to be no good for a core if you get redrils...aka m7 440/420's....they charge 100$ each for a core....bought my new, sealed JCW 380's a few years back for less then their core charge....so buyer beware....

 

how will stock S injectors hold up to a 19% pulley?

would i be able to DD with stock injectors until i get bigger ones(limit my self to a certain rpm)?

will JCW's be enough?

 

Thanks Zippy!

 

They will tune w/ any of the accepted injectors, 330, 380, 440 or 550's (not sure about the older M7 400's), they both just offer an option, (RMW 440's & 550's, Mynes 550's) if you want or need them.
My personal choice is the 550's, the 440's, while they work just fine, are an option that was introduced early on simply because no one thought anything larger would work, + with the 550's, unless you run a lot of mods & e-85, you'll never run them @ 100%, and since they both "require" a tune why not spend your money once & not have to worry about it.

Injectors-vs-pulleys isn't the problem, injectors-vs-pulleys-vs-rpm's is, so yes as long as you can controll yourself, it's all about duty cycle.

Figure with a 17% or smaller you're prob. running a 330cc @ 100% around 6200-6300 a 380cc prob. closer to 6700-6800 @ WOT.

 

Add "dual cone" to that list as well. Sort of implied by the 15-20 degree req.

I have a pretty solid list of injectors that meet all of these specs. Most are Volvo and Audi OEM units. It's quite simple to find what you can use; just download a Bosch injector spec Excel file, and critically compare specs. I find it hilarious that people are willing to pay $450 for JCW injectors, knowing that there are other legit options available. Hell, even Helix was simply marking-up & reselling Genesis brand 380cc injectors, commonly used as an upgrade for the VW/Audi 1.8T.

 

Look familiar ?

Helix even pulled their description from the USRT site.

http://www.ecodetuning.com/shop/cart..._detail&p=1229

http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php...products_id=81

http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-in...r-p-17934.html

 

I'm running the stock injectors with a 19% I have not had any problems. I dont live anywhere near the redline mostly commuting. I would like to get bigger injectors with a tune so I'm not sure if I want to go with the 380's I dont want to have to buy bigger injectors after a tune I would like to get it done all at once.

 

I ended up getting a used set of JCW 380cc injectors from a friend for 150.oo$ and then sold my factory ones for 80.oo$

I really wanted to go with some 440cc to 550cc units but I just could not pass up the JCWs at that price, and they are good for about 220Hp, if I ever get to the point that I need more I can sell my 380cc units for more than I paid for them.

Plus they did not require a Flash to the ECU, even though I am going to get that done soon enough.

 

thats awesome so... these are pretty much what helix sells?

i am interested because 034 is local to me... so I might have to bug them...

are these pretty much plug and play?

 

Been covered a few times...
But you CAN run them no tune....but
You will be rich enough with a 15% to loose power (a bit...some say pig azz rich!) run pretty good with a 17% IMO...
Your computer, by using the o2 sensor, will adjust the fuel trims so the car will run fine with a light throttle/cruise, but when wot (when on throttle) the car relies on maps that are stored...so you will be rich here...the feedback from the o2 sensor is not fast enough here.
IMO, might not be a good idea long term...you may kill your cat prematurely... But we all not get fuel trim error codes...but much bigger, you may.

 

I understand the whole how the car adapts to the 380cc

I guess I should of been more detailed, do these "genesis" 380cc injectors that thebigchill posted plug in to the stock harness and act like the jcw injectors, and will run fine on stock dme? Then eventually these can be tuned by someone

Just interesting that if helix sells the same ones rebranded I'll be jumping on those genesis injectors as they are affordable

 

yes im interested as well they just fit in exactly were the oem injectors go same size?

 

Yes. The Genesis 380cc will work perfectly fine. Same impedance, same connector, comparable and usable body size (compared the JCW or R53 OEM), same dual cone 15 degree spray pattern. I'm not sure if the Genesis 380cc are re-branded Bosch units or not, but it's certain that they are NOT drilled nozzles. MINI OEM is Siemens Deka brand.

The Genesis 380cc's are exactly what Helix was selling, and at a $100 mark-up. No disrespect to Helix, but $100 is $100... If you have any doubts, review the Genesis 380cc link at USRT.com, look at their product description & photo of the product, and then do the same for Helix. They're the same injector.

In closed loop operation (when the ECU is using O2 sensors to determine Air:Fuel mix) the injectors will be scaled just fine by the ECU during partial throttle driving. In open loop (cold start or high load driving) the ECU will use predetermined stored parameters to control fueling. It's true that simply throwing bigger injectors, untuned, at a bolt-on modified car is not ideal, though, with mods like intake and pulley, you're introducing more air into the combustion chamber at a faster pace than stock, and this will "lean-out" the mixture a bit during open loop operation after adding bigger injectors. Again, not ideal, but I HIGHLY doubt that with a 15% pulley, intake, and untuned 380's, that you'll be running dangerously rich (cat damage or cylinder washing) or dangerously lean (misfires, pre-ignition, etc).

The JCW with it's 380's runs a bit rich (rich, but safe) in open loop from the factory, and has: Higher flow head, improved intake, tuned exhaust, and runs a bit more boost (compared to stock trim R53). Compare this to a car with stock head, 15% pulley, intake, & exhaust (common mod list here). Me personally, I wouldn't install injectors without tuning if all I had was a 15% pulley on an otherwise stock R53. I think that would run a bit too rich. Add an intake & exhaust to help move air through the motor, then I'd run 380's untuned. This is only my opinion, but is based on 12 years of modifying and tuning forced induction cars (Split Second AFC, Emanage, Apexi Neo, etc)

Again, there are several 380cc and 440cc injectors out there that are OEM equipment on other cars, that will work in the R53 just fine. We know what needs to match, and doing so is simple; an Excel spreadsheet is available from Bosch to compare specs.

 

very cool i may have to pick these up now... i was planning on a 19% or 17% pulley and the only deciding factor was if i wanted to buy bigger injectors for the 19 and at the price of the jcw or other 380cc it was a bit expensive. 250+s&h sounds like a good deal if they are direct plug and play. i didnt want to buy anything bigger than 380 because i would need a tune right away.

 

You are correct Zippy. Factory Genuine MINI , Siemens 380cc with the notable blue top.

JCW Fuel Injector - Priced Each

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/13537574132/ES253305/




Thanks

 

Not to get too off-topic, but, I'd skip the 19% pulley. You're really overworking the diminutive blower at that point. There is an efficiency range that should be considered when increasing boost on blowers and turbos.

If you look around, you'll also find that once you start adding bolt-on mods to a 15%+ pulley, even the 380's are running at an injector duty cycle that is less than ideal.