Drivetrain Burger Motorsports (BMS) Tune(s)
#1951
04-01-2014, 11:12 AM
Straight-up honest here: No clue how I'd adjust the fuel trims, how to monitor them, how close they are to, or approaching 33, how one would "have room" for adjustment, etc.
Prolly know enough to get me in trouble though...
Maybe I should just take the plunge and get a meth kit (and leave it the hell alone, i.e., at the defaults), given what's being posted here, it seems like a good, 'safe' and effective route
Prolly know enough to get me in trouble though...
Maybe I should just take the plunge and get a meth kit (and leave it the hell alone, i.e., at the defaults), given what's being posted here, it seems like a good, 'safe' and effective route
if you want to play with more boost, a meth kit might not be too bad of an idea.
#1952
04-01-2014, 11:47 AM
Straight-up honest here: No clue how I'd adjust the fuel trims, how to monitor them, how close they are to, or approaching 33, how one would "have room" for adjustment, etc.
Prolly know enough to get me in trouble though...
Maybe I should just take the plunge and get a meth kit (and leave it the hell alone, i.e., at the defaults), given what's being posted here, it seems like a good, 'safe' and effective route
Prolly know enough to get me in trouble though...
Maybe I should just take the plunge and get a meth kit (and leave it the hell alone, i.e., at the defaults), given what's being posted here, it seems like a good, 'safe' and effective route
#1953
04-01-2014, 11:58 AM
fuel trims adjust themselves via the ECU. the are not infinitelly adjustable and when you add more than 33% e85, they essentially run out of room to adjust and you wnd up running too lean (not a good thing). if you want to play with more boost, a meth kit might not be too bad of an idea.
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2013 GP2 #295, 270whp/310wtq, KO4 47mm Turbo, 18" NM Wheels, Alta intake, Manic Stage III+, HFS-3 Meth, 30% E85 Blend, Forged IC, Alta Hot Pipe, P&P/Ceramic Exhaust Manifold, m3 Extreme Ceramic DP, Vibrant mid res, 4" Double walled Tips, WMW/KW V3 CO, Alta Rear CA, CREE Fogs, Black out F/R Rings and Gas Cap, M7 CF Front Splitter, and No Stickers. MORE TO COME!! Previous 04Triple Black 17% Alta, MM Air/H2O, CAI, OBX Header, FBT Head, Shrick Cam, 234whp
2013 GP2 #295, 270whp/310wtq, KO4 47mm Turbo, 18" NM Wheels, Alta intake, Manic Stage III+, HFS-3 Meth, 30% E85 Blend, Forged IC, Alta Hot Pipe, P&P/Ceramic Exhaust Manifold, m3 Extreme Ceramic DP, Vibrant mid res, 4" Double walled Tips, WMW/KW V3 CO, Alta Rear CA, CREE Fogs, Black out F/R Rings and Gas Cap, M7 CF Front Splitter, and No Stickers. MORE TO COME!! Previous 04Triple Black 17% Alta, MM Air/H2O, CAI, OBX Header, FBT Head, Shrick Cam, 234whp
#1954
04-01-2014, 12:35 PM
but like i said, i dont personally run it, so ide advise to do your own research.
#1955
04-01-2014, 01:20 PM
Caveat emptor, so to speak.
Enjoy
Or also, to answer the 33% question:
.33*12.4 = 4.10
Thus 4.10 gallons of e85 is a "33%." It's also an 'actual' e28, per the spreadsheet.
Last edited by minniehaha; 04-01-2014 at 01:24 PM. Reason: clarity
#1956
04-01-2014, 01:52 PM
fuel trims adjust themselves via the ECU. the are not infinitelly adjustable and when you add more than 33% e85, they essentially run out of room to adjust and you wnd up running too lean (not a good thing).
if you want to play with more boost, a meth kit might not be too bad of an idea.
if you want to play with more boost, a meth kit might not be too bad of an idea.
Also, where did the "FuelTrim limit being reached" information with e85 at 33% come from? I will have to look back in this thread and will send BMS an e-mail if I consider going above the "Rolling Rock" limit (33), but IIRC, Terry mentioned in a reply about going to 40% or thereabout.
Anyway, not making that leap yet, just gathering knowledge (it's fun).
#1957
04-01-2014, 02:53 PM
It's not just a mad quest for boost, it's for 'safe' power, so to speak. Also, where did the "FuelTrim limit being reached" information with e85 at 33% come from? I will have to look back in this thread and will send BMS an e-mail if I consider going above the "Rolling Rock" limit (33), but IIRC, Terry mentioned in a reply about going to 40% or thereabout. Anyway, not making that leap yet, just gathering knowledge (it's fun).
Also, where did the "FuelTrim limit being reached" information with e85 at 33% come from? I will have to look back in this thread and will send BMS an e-mail if I consider going above the "Rolling Rock" limit (33), but IIRC, Terry mentioned in a reply about going to 40% or thereabout. Anyway, not making that leap yet, just gathering knowledge (it's fun).
#1958
04-01-2014, 04:35 PM
Also, where did the "FuelTrim limit being reached" information with e85 at 33% come from? I will have to look back in this thread and will send BMS an e-mail if I consider going above the "Rolling Rock" limit (33), but IIRC, Terry mentioned in a reply about going to 40% or thereabout.
Anyway, not making that leap yet, just gathering knowledge (it's fun).
Anyway, not making that leap yet, just gathering knowledge (it's fun).
the other potentially detrimental effect of running to much ethanol is its effect on the fuel system, ethanol can degrade fuel lines and and orings, however it has been generally determined that there is no noticeable effect with a 30% concentration of E85.
Last edited by Mcameron; 04-01-2014 at 04:47 PM.
#1959
04-01-2014, 05:04 PM
The trim you can't affect, just monitor. The E85 mixture you can vary by putting more/less in your gas tank.
Putting more E85 in your tank forces the DME to spray more fuel to keep A/F ratios in check
#1960
04-01-2014, 06:14 PM
FWIW:...dragged my buddy in his modded (heavily) '05 MCS. Boy the ALL4 is *hard* to launch. Anyway, he got all the hole shots (with plenty of wheelspin :-) and slowly pulled away on runs to about 100+ mph. :-( for me, lol. ... now that we have a baseline for the JB+ @40% on 91, I am eager to see how it improves(?) with it @60% on e85.
So as fortune would have it a re-match occurred this evening We went back out to our *top-secret* drag strip and had our re-match.
This time I have the Countryman at ~61% on the JuiceBox+ and a fuel blend of ~33% e85 and (pure) 91 (see above). Temp was 12.0C, IIRC it was about 15.0C on Sunday.
Anyway - Sunday he slowly pulled me as we dragged. Today was different.
This is IMO real world proof/evidence of the JB's worth... [BTW - I launched *way* better today too, but that's beside the point]. So in our runs today we were dead even, it was sweeeeet!! & FUN!! He didn't pull away as before, it was almost comical how even it was... every time he shifted I would gain a couple feet and pull ahead - and then it was time for me to shift, and he would get the couple feet back and creep inches ahead - then it was his turn to shift and it went back the other way, back and forth up to about 120. Our grins were enormous!! LOL!
I was/am stoked, the JuiceBox brought it home! My big porker Countryman held its own with the modded supercharged Cooper! And I have room to spare, the dial is only the slightest smidge past 60%
Last edited by minniehaha; 04-01-2014 at 06:15 PM. Reason: little grammar errors
#1961
04-02-2014, 08:03 AM
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So as fortune would have it a re-match occurred this evening We went back out to our *top-secret* drag strip and had our re-match. This time I have the Countryman at ~61% on the JuiceBox+ and a fuel blend of ~33% e85 and (pure) 91 (see above). Temp was 12.0C, IIRC it was about 15.0C on Sunday. Anyway - Sunday he slowly pulled me as we dragged. Today was different. This is IMO real world proof/evidence of the JB's worth... [BTW - I launched *way* better today too, but that's beside the point]. So in our runs today we were dead even, it was sweeeeet!! & FUN!! He didn't pull away as before, it was almost comical how even it was... every time he shifted I would gain a couple feet and pull ahead - and then it was time for me to shift, and he would get the couple feet back and creep inches ahead - then it was his turn to shift and it went back the other way, back and forth up to about 120. Our grins were enormous!! LOL! I was/am stoked, the JuiceBox brought it home! My big porker Countryman held its own with the modded supercharged Cooper! And I have room to spare, the dial is only the slightest smidge past 60%
#1962
04-02-2014, 08:58 AM
#1963
04-02-2014, 11:50 AM
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I'm there, got the intercooler, hot side tube, 2nd cat delete with resonator on a JCW exhaust, torque arm insert, K&N drop in panel, and a few other things I'm missing. But I'm waiting on the GFB DV to become available. Enjoy the mods it's never ending!
#1964
04-02-2014, 03:24 PM
Logged some more data on the drive home. I was first in line at a stop light so the beginning ambient was high because I was standing still. Ended up being 20F below ambient when I had to cut the run short. The hotter it gets the better meth works. Probably would have gone lower on a full run.
#1965
04-02-2014, 05:17 PM
Nice to see some real world data on meth. I've been kicking the idea around with summer in South Florida just around the corner. Not sure if i want to have my tune designed with it in mind or not yet. If you get a chance to post some data during a good pull that would be awesome (hint hint lol)
#1967
04-03-2014, 07:49 PM
A great thread for a great product
What a great thread! I have been trying to complete reading it for some time now
I have got 2 questions, though.
I have a 2013 Hardtop Factory JCW (N18 @ 211hp) w/Automatic tranny.
I live in a hot country; Egypt. The temperature could easily rise to 38 degrees on a hot summer day. What effect would that have on my JB+ tuned engine?
I use 92 fuel and sometimes "when I have spare cash" 95 octane.
I think the JB+ would be perfect so I could set the dial corresponding to the fuel I have in the tank No?
My other question is what the CAN tool actually is? Is it just a CAN OBDII cable to connect to a laptop? Or does it display bits of information on my stock dash?
and if it's necessary, where to order it from?
a 3rd question I have: What would the best cone air intake kit to go with the JB+ I am looking for good acoustics too
A great thread for a great product again
I have got 2 questions, though.
I have a 2013 Hardtop Factory JCW (N18 @ 211hp) w/Automatic tranny.
I live in a hot country; Egypt. The temperature could easily rise to 38 degrees on a hot summer day. What effect would that have on my JB+ tuned engine?
I use 92 fuel and sometimes "when I have spare cash
" 95 octane.I think the JB+ would be perfect so I could set the dial corresponding to the fuel I have in the tank
No?My other question is what the CAN tool actually is? Is it just a CAN OBDII cable to connect to a laptop? Or does it display bits of information on my stock dash?
and if it's necessary, where to order it from?
a 3rd question I have: What would the best cone air intake kit to go with the JB+ I am looking for good acoustics too
A great thread for a great product again
Last edited by FOXTEiN; 04-03-2014 at 08:03 PM.
#1968
04-03-2014, 08:01 PM
What a great thread! I have been trying to complete reading it for some time now
I have got 2 questions, though.
I have a 2013 Hardtop Factory JCW (N18 @ 211hp) w/Automatic tranny.
I live in a hot country; Egypt. The temperature could easily rise to 38 degrees on a hot summer day. What effect would that have on my JB+ tuned engine?
I use 92 fuel and sometimes "when I have spare cash" 95 octane.
I think the JB+ would be perfect so I could set the dial corresponding to the fuel I have in the tank No?
My other question is what the CAN tool actually is? Is it just a CAN OBDII cable to connect to a laptop? Or does it display bits of information on my stock dash?
and if it's necessary, where to order it from?
A great thread for a great product again
I have got 2 questions, though.
I have a 2013 Hardtop Factory JCW (N18 @ 211hp) w/Automatic tranny.
I live in a hot country; Egypt. The temperature could easily rise to 38 degrees on a hot summer day. What effect would that have on my JB+ tuned engine?
I use 92 fuel and sometimes "when I have spare cash
" 95 octane.I think the JB+ would be perfect so I could set the dial corresponding to the fuel I have in the tank
No?My other question is what the CAN tool actually is? Is it just a CAN OBDII cable to connect to a laptop? Or does it display bits of information on my stock dash?
and if it's necessary, where to order it from?
A great thread for a great product again
I would not mess the the dial on a frequent basis, pick a setting and stay there. It's too easy to accidentally forget and fill up with the wrong gas.
If your worried about temps then look into a larger intercooler (Helix, Forge, etc.) or methanol injection. The temperature could factor into what setting you have it at.
The CAN Tool has been discontinued.
#1969
04-03-2014, 08:21 PM
Thanks very much cerenkov.
What we have is RON.
I cannot go for such a big mod now as I am still under warranty, What I would do is just use it at the default setting it arrives on.
Do u recommend getting a scanguage2 to keep an eye on things?
Also what intake box would be good for an amateur like myself? just for acoustics
What we have is RON.
I cannot go for such a big mod now as I am still under warranty, What I would do is just use it at the default setting it arrives on.
Do u recommend getting a scanguage2 to keep an eye on things?
Also what intake box would be good for an amateur like myself? just for acoustics
#1970
04-03-2014, 08:30 PM
Maybe I'm wrong with the scales but I'd be very hesitant to run it on 92 RON and even 95 RON is not that great (borderline 91 AKI).
Maybe Terry can comment on this octane question.
For periodic monitoring I personally like smart phone type solutions like DashCommand (iPhone) or Torque (Android). Scangauge product are nice though, especially if you want a more permanent type installation. The new gauge from P3cars is cool but pricey.
Maybe Terry can comment on this octane question.
For periodic monitoring I personally like smart phone type solutions like DashCommand (iPhone) or Torque (Android). Scangauge product are nice though, especially if you want a more permanent type installation. The new gauge from P3cars is cool but pricey.
#1971
04-03-2014, 08:59 PM
I have a 2013 Hardtop Factory JCW (N18 @ 211hp) w/Automatic tranny.
I live in a hot country; Egypt. The temperature could easily rise to 38 degrees on a hot summer day. What effect would that have on my JB+ tuned engine?
I use 92 fuel and sometimes "when I have spare cash" 95 octane.
I think the JB+ would be perfect so I could set the dial corresponding to the fuel I have in the tank No?
I live in a hot country; Egypt. The temperature could easily rise to 38 degrees on a hot summer day. What effect would that have on my JB+ tuned engine?
I use 92 fuel and sometimes "when I have spare cash
" 95 octane.I think the JB+ would be perfect so I could set the dial corresponding to the fuel I have in the tank
No?Assuming 95 RON translates to 91 octane US, that is the bare minimum to run an 'S' motor at 40-50% on the JB+ dial, all else being equal. Since you have the JCW you would want it to be lower than 40% to start to be safe until you can get some logging going to test if you can go higher.
Edit: Regarding the intake, you might lose low end torque which you won't like in exchange for more noise. I'd look for a washable, dry (versus oiled) high flow panel air filter replacement.
#1972
04-03-2014, 09:27 PM
Hi Yesti,
Thanks a lot for contributing, mate. The JCW was definitely bought in Egypt, and it's a hot climate spec. (MENA region). My manufacturer recommendations state an absolute minimum RON91. I am running premium unleaded RON92. I used RON95 a few tanks and the difference is really noticeable. Average 0-100 on RON92 were 6.8 sec. I never dyno'ed it though. Planning to do so if am ever to get the JB+ (before & after).
I hope this tells u anything about if im allowed to get a JB+
Thanks a lot
Thanks a lot for contributing, mate. The JCW was definitely bought in Egypt, and it's a hot climate spec. (MENA region). My manufacturer recommendations state an absolute minimum RON91. I am running premium unleaded RON92. I used RON95 a few tanks and the difference is really noticeable. Average 0-100 on RON92 were 6.8 sec. I never dyno'ed it though. Planning to do so if am ever to get the JB+ (before & after).
I hope this tells u anything about if im allowed to get a JB+
Thanks a lot
#1973
04-03-2014, 11:36 PM
Hi Yesti,
Thanks a lot for contributing, mate. The JCW was definitely bought in Egypt, and it's a hot climate spec. (MENA region). My manufacturer recommendations state an absolute minimum RON91. I am running premium unleaded RON92. I used RON95 a few tanks and the difference is really noticeable. Average 0-100 on RON92 were 6.8 sec. I never dyno'ed it though. Planning to do so if am ever to get the JB+ (before & after).
I hope this tells u anything about if im allowed to get a JB+
Thanks a lot
Thanks a lot for contributing, mate. The JCW was definitely bought in Egypt, and it's a hot climate spec. (MENA region). My manufacturer recommendations state an absolute minimum RON91. I am running premium unleaded RON92. I used RON95 a few tanks and the difference is really noticeable. Average 0-100 on RON92 were 6.8 sec. I never dyno'ed it though. Planning to do so if am ever to get the JB+ (before & after).
I hope this tells u anything about if im allowed to get a JB+
Thanks a lot
Now don't get me wrong, I'm a JB+ supporter and I want BMS to continue developing Mini products, but unless you do something to raise your octane (meth injection, torco) you probably won't see the gains you want. Hopefully I'm wrong but that's what the data collected so far indicates.
Last edited by yesti; 04-03-2014 at 11:46 PM.
#1974
04-04-2014, 08:22 AM
Gasohol
All,
I wrote a little treatise about the subject (mixing gasoline and E85). If you're interested I started a new thread for it:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ml#post3907932
I wrote a little treatise about the subject (mixing gasoline and E85). If you're interested I started a new thread for it:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ml#post3907932
#1975
04-04-2014, 03:24 PM
2nd Gear
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Alright. I'm going to ask a question and would appreciate it if you guys didn't shoot me because I did search quite a bit (and didn't understand a whole lot of what I read). But what is the general consensus on turning up the JB+ when you have an Aquamist Meth Kit? I know you can do it, but by how much?