The early customers that have Stage 3+, are the ones pushing Manic to do this, just like I did and some of my friends. There are always customers that want, what they want. This is true in every business, the customers demand and then most of the time, things evolve and work out. Of course there could be hiccups on the way.

mQubed Motorsport, Manic Tuning Dealer

 

I guess everyone must have their own tolerances for hiccups! A "hiccup" is limp mode. Rods through the block is a major problem!

I would think you would have the integrity as a tuner to let a customer know that they are past the engines limits with the amount of boost they want to run! It sounds like you are testing on these cars instead of presenting a completed package that has been proven functional!

I would rather have reliable power then a time bomb. I will just wait for a real tuning solution instead of throwing my money in the wishing well...

 

Dude, any tune other than STOCK is a potential problem...get off your soap box.

 

What is with the tuner hate? If you are getting stage 3, i hope you're smart enough to realize your engine is under more stress than stock. This will diminish the possible lifespan of the motor. Seems like common sense to me, more power is more risk. Everyone hating on the tuners needs to get into their stock justas and let the big boys talk. So far there is one confirmed blown engine, no fault of the tune. Another possible blown engine, unconfirmed thus far. I was told the stage 3 is not happy with jmtc turbos, not blowing motors, but still fine tuning and a work in progress. Quit complaining about accountability, and thrashing good people. If you don't have the stones to get a tune, that's your choice. You should probably find another thread to troll. Otherwise keep it to yourself and stay in the slow lane.

 

I am not afraid to get tuned properly for the modifications and capabilities of my hardware. What is the point of unreliable power?

 

I notice you have a 1.8 Rotex motor, so you sound like you took a risk, on a kit that only has a handful of Rotex 1.8L kits on the planet. You purchased a power package, that has very little history or and proven track record.

BTW, I was at my local Mini dealer and there were two blown Stock Mini's there. Stock Mini's tend to run lean for emissions, this ECU tweak by Mini has caused failures. I can't think of one company, that doesn't have a tiny % of complete motor failures.

mQubed Motorsport, Manic Tuning Dealer

 

Yeah I was in talks with Doug a while back to test his turbo with Manic. But I wanted something bigger. All he had was a 42mm turbo so I didn't want it.
I went with a JMTC E45R

 

Manic has been testing their product for years before they released it to the public. I've been bugging them forever to release their product to us. It isn't fair to say they are just throwing tunes on people's cars without testing them. I decided to be a test vehicle for Manic as Mario was saying. We chose this and this is what we wanted. Nick flew out from Europe to specially tune my car along with other vehicles. He took an entire 10 hours of the first day I met with him to tune my vehicle for US Fuels and establish a very good baseline for US Cars. He would always make a tune not like it and improve it. He constantly did it all day long. He didn't just throw a tune on my car and leave me with it. It is entirely your choice to get a tune. I've had a Manic tune for 30,000+ miles. I am Stage 3. JMTC E45R K04. 261whp 271wtq. I've hit 150+ mph about 12 times and 160mph about 4 times. With my experience, my car is just fine. Had dealer check my car this past Friday and they said my engine is very healthy.
But again, this is my personal experience.

 

Sounds like a great combo, nice numbers. I will eventually build a bottom end and look for 300/300...HP/TQ...Should be gobs of fun cruising with the OCXOTICS Ferraris/Lambos in my area...

 

Unreliable power, how do you determine if a tune is reliable? Are you referring to the Prince engine or very capable tuner's out there? I haven't seen or heard of one blown N18 engine period with or without a tune. If anything deserves to be called unreliable it's the N14 Prince engine.

 

300/300 to the wheels? Hope you have deep pockets :D

 

Due to my affiliation with Manic some may consider the following biased, and that's fine. Those familiar with my penchant for a reasoned, logical approach to analysis, and willingness to share the facts whether I like them or not, may feel differently. Either way, I think the following needs to be said.

I have conversed with Nick at Manic in regards to the JMTC turbos since I have one myself. The issue with their turbos is variation in the wastegate arm actuator adjustment when the turbos leave JMTC. Some are fine, some under boost, some over boost. The GT Dominator tends towards over boost due to the shorter wastegate arm adjustments.

I've never installed a Borg Warner aftermarket turbo but EVERY single aftermarket Garrett turbo I've helped install or seen installed needed wastegate adjustments to reach correct boost levels. My JMTC E45R was no exception as it didn't reach target boost without shortening the wastegate actuator arm adjustment. So keep in mind one should never install an aftermarket turbo, and just go for it. Install it, and make progressively higher acceleration runs while data logging, then make adjustments as necessary.

Another thing that's needs to be pointed out is that with actuator adjustment one can exceed the boost levels specified by the ECU. Just about any 1.5 bar tune with boost cut deactivated can be circumnavigated to reach 1.7 bar or higher. Using boost creep to reach higher boost is NEVER a good idea because WOT ECU control is an open, not closed loop operation. In other words it is table driven. The ECU is not capable of balancing all of the engine variables for each engine cycle at high load/RPM. Because of this one can easily exceed the safety margins built into the tune by running higher boost than intended. So please don't do it.

Lastly, I would never recommend exceeding 1.5 bar on factory pistons, even with methanol. Does it give you a greater margin of safety? Yes it absolutely does. However, there are documented cases of piston failures on earlier N18's at as little as 18 psi. The Manic tune has a healthy safety margin built in, and methanol adds to that margin. These margins are designed to reduce the risk associated with the increase in power, but risk can not be eliminated altogether. Any mechanical system has flaws inherent to the design, and is capable of failure. I think many would agree that the EVO is a fantastic design, but how many of those have we seen blow up on YouTube.

 

Excellent post and explanation of the variables encountered. Anytime a high performance engine builder assembles a motor to exceed factory design they will almost always strengthen the bottom end to attempt to lessen failures. Parts fail. If we push parts past design limits they will probably fail sooner. Anyone who pushes parts/engines past those limits and then blames a "tuner" is just absurd. Have fun, Motor On.

 

Saving $$$ now for the future...Hope $50k is enough...

 

Progress report: Almost 11 months and 26k miles on Manic Stage 3+ tune. 8 of those months have been with meth. I drive mostly in map A(1.4 bar) with occasional map B(1.5 bar) and have only played with map C a few times. I know the potential consequences.

As tigger advised, you need to check and/or set your own wastegate throw no matter which turbo you get. Very simple and good practice. Both my JMTC turbos were pretty close to where they should have been and needed minimal adjustment.

Happy tuning!
Chris

 

Adjusting the wastegate was true for my 47 turbo so. I adjusted it 6mm out, because it was boost creeping. Adjustment took about 25 minutes and a is good now. Last night I did a 2 quick pulls on Map B and did 258whp and 299wtq and this is on a stock exhaust, it's finally time to go to a slightly larger exhaust. I'm so looking forward to my Big Valved flowed head, 80% more, smoother air in and more out the back

mQubed Motorsport, Manic Tuning Dealer

 

Looks typical Chinese turbo issues.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...04-Boost-creep

 

I have been hunting down a CEL code for about 6-8 months now. It is a P2C57 which is common when there is a boost leak on the air charge side. Or when the ECU is calling for more boost but it is not available. I charged the system to 20psi with no leak. I was finally able to data log a variety of different runs and in doing a 60-90 run the CEL occurred which is helpful. Below is a graph at the point I believe the CEL triggered. The data log is off to Manic. Ran on stock for 1000 miles with no issues.

 

I have seen something similar in a few tuned cars that boost over 1bar. Have you tried changing our your Boost Solenoid? Mini made a bad batch of these, but it's difficult to say they are bad, because they do hold the typical 1bar. The part is only $89 and I think it would fix your issue
http://www.ecstuning.com/Mini-2012-C...013_2014_2015/

mQubed Motorsport, Manic Tuning Dealer

 

Does the R60 use the same one?

 

Maybe it's time for the JCW turbo.

 

I just got from a run. I installed my new (smaller) meth nozzle and now I'm injecting around 480-490ish ml/mn. Stage 2+ Map B , what a blast

Don't know how accurate the dash command hp and tq numbers are but on last data log, it reads 244hp and 241 tq.

I also installed my new 1 gal meth tank about 2 weeks ago. It's a jazz fuel cell with a vent tube leading outside the car. With my old snow performance meth tank with vented cap, I would get a meth smell in the car. Now no more smell and larger capacity.

 

I know all N18's use the same, not sure about the N14's.

mQubed Motorsport, Manic Tuning Dealer

 

I thought that much meth was only needed for C on 2+?

 

Typically meth is only required for 2+ on Map C, but the car can always benefit from higher octane and cooler IATs

mQubed Motorsport, Manic Tuning Dealer