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From my logs, the Manic maps are richer at WOT compared to the stock map. During partial throttle driving, my AFR gauges bounces around 14.7, which is what you'd expect.
Do you have a way to monitor AFR?
I'm using dash command to monitor AFR. I'm seeing 14.5 to 14.7 as well. Currently running stock plugs. . Could that be the issue possibly?
Might want to check the two vents under the plastic trim at the bottom of the boot in the back. If one of the flaps are stuck open exhaust fumes can come back in the cabin.
Manic Motorsport brings us N18 owners OBD II Tuning! Solution is finally here!
Originally Posted by Tigger2011
Might want to check the two vents under the plastic trim at the bottom of the boot in the back. If one of the flaps are stuck open exhaust fumes can come back in the cabin.
Running 2 gallons of E85 feels great! Tigger, I'm glad you mentioned those vents in the rear, I've been smelling exhaust fumes at idle if I have the cabin fan on but no AC. To test this, I put sprayed an aerosol air freshener on the ground by the car, and sure enough, it quickly made its way into the cabin. Is there any way that I can close these vents?
I appreciate the quick responses! I'm assuming I should only tape up about half of each vent still allow airflow correct?
Took my car to a tire shop to install some new fronts. While they were putting it on the mechanical floor jack/lift (you drive the car onto these tracks and then the tracks lift up everywhere between the two axles), to which I told them the wheelbase was too low and the car itself was too low, they proceeded anyways, and while putting the car on, it fell off and the downpipe and C joint hit the crossmember for the lift and now I'm essentially open downpipe as the joint is bent.
This is NOT intended to start a "Which is the best oil?" discussion. But I did want people to consider an additional benefit of the Manic tune in regards to oil temps. It was previously mentioned that there was some concern about water accumulation due to the lower water temp causing a lower oil temp. However as we all know water will evaporate at room temperature and the higher the temperature the more rapid the rate of evaporation.
Some people such as myself who tend to be a bit OCD might also want to know how the temperature change effects other attributes of the oil. Attributes such as viscosity, film adhesion, internal friction etc.. To that end I have attached a chart showing viscosity as affected by temperature for the four most common BMW Longlife-01 certified oils used in our vehicles. This graph is based off the kinematic viscosity ratings of the oils as published by the manufacturers per ASTM D445. Higher numbers indicate higher viscosity. Too much or too little viscosity is a bad thing. A thin viscosity oil can be pumped more easily and produces less internal friction but provides less film adhesion and protection. At high temperatures where the oil thins even more accelerated wear rates occur. A higher viscosity oil provides more protection but increases internal friction/drag and too high a viscosity can cause cavitation or film shearing. Think Goldy Locks and the three bears here.
Viscosity is also related to an oils ability to protect metal parts under LOAD (caps for emphasis). The greater load that is placed on an engine the greater the importance of film strength to provide a cushion between bearings and other rotating components. Typically oils with a 30W rating have a cSt between 9.3 and 12.5 @ 100ºC, 40W falls between a range of 12.5 and 16.3 @100ºC and 50W oil comes in between 16.3 and 21.9 at the same temp. By altering the engine coolant temp and subsequent oil temp we get the benefit of 40W protection from 30W oil and 50W protection from 40W oil without altering the oils ability to flow at low temperatures such as during cold starts.
This is NOT intended to start a "Which is the best oil?" discussion. But I did want people to consider an additional benefit of the Manic tune in regards to oil temps. It was previously mentioned that there was some concern about water accumulation due to the lower water temp causing a lower oil temp. However as we all know water will evaporate at room temperature and the higher the temperature the more rapid the rate of evaporation.
Some people such as myself who tend to be a bit OCD might also want to know how the temperature change effects other attributes of the oil. Attributes such as viscosity, film adhesion, internal friction etc.. To that end I have attached a chart showing viscosity as affected by temperature for the four most common BMW Longlife-01 certified oils used in our vehicles. This graph is based off the kinematic viscosity ratings of the oils as published by the manufacturers per ASTM D445. Higher numbers indicate higher viscosity. Too much or too little viscosity is a bad thing. A thin viscosity oil can be pumped more easily and produces less internal friction but provides less film adhesion and protection. At high temperatures where the oil thins even more accelerated wear rates occur. A higher viscosity oil provides more protection but increases internal friction/drag and too high a viscosity can cause cavitation or film shearing. Think Goldy Locks and the three bears here.
Viscosity is also related to an oils ability to protect metal parts under LOAD (caps for emphasis). The greater load that is placed on an engine the greater the importance of film strength to provide a cushion between bearings and other rotating components. Typically oils with a 30W rating have a cSt between 9.3 and 12.5 @ 100ºC, 40W falls between a range of 12.5 and 16.3 @100ºC and 50W oil comes in between 16.3 and 21.9 at the same temp. By altering the engine coolant temp and subsequent oil temp we get the benefit of 40W protection from 30W oil and 50W protection from 40W oil without altering the oils ability to flow at low temperatures such as during cold starts.
This is probably a good discussion to have...
But first, You indicate that the Manic tune lowers the water temperature. I don't recall reading that, so I probably missed something. Does anyone know what temperature it lowers it to. Sorry if this is a repeat...
Back to the oil question, I would add to the above that more HP means more load on the bearings and more load on the bearings means more heat going into the oil. Also, running at higher RPM will also raise the oil temp. I would think these would also be a considerations when thinking about which oil and which weight oil should go along with this tune. Especially for someone running this tune on the track where both loads and RPM are high for an extended period of time.
Here is another tidbit - a heavier weight oil will run cooler than a lighter weight oil. Under the same conditions a 40 weight oil will run cooler than a 30 weight. I got that info from a Redline oil rep at a track event where I ran into some really high oil temps while out for a 30 min session. Not pushing Redline, it was just that I was pointed to this guy when I started to ask questions about what to do about the oil temp issue. Thought I would pass it along.
At any rate I would be interested to hear people's experience with this tune out on the track and what it mean to oil temperature.
Don't forget that for the newer model year cars, the water temperature is also lowered to ~180F with the sport button, so the engineers at MINI thought this was a good idea also.
Such a non issue
If one was to start this debate, one should start with oil temps and not coolant temps.
Normal coolant temps were always 175-190 until around 1996 with OBD II.
What "moisture" one would see would be burned off during normal driving once operating temps are achieved. I recall watching my oil temp vary wildly depending on freeway vs stop and go traffic
Don't forget that for the newer model year cars, the water temperature is also lowered to ~180F with the sport button, so the engineers at MINI thought this was a good idea also.
Bingo and for good reason. Generally speaking you never want to see oil temperatures exceed 300ºF. As oil temp increases, viscosity drops, oil pressure drops and more heat in the engine is generated, creating a viscous cycle. Ideally you want to keep oil temps below 250ºF. We all know our vehicles uses a heat exchanger in order to use the coolant system as a heat sump. Even during normal daily driving with a water temp of 225ºF, oil temps can run 235 to 240ºF. At that coolant temp one only has 75º of head room to play with, not considering the efficiency loss of the exchanger. By lowering the coolant temp you've increased the margins of your heat sump from 75ºF to 115ºF.
Such a non issue
If one was to start this debate, one should start with oil temps and not coolant temps.
Normal coolant temps were always 175-190 until around 1996 with OBD II.
What "moisture" one would see would be burned off during normal driving once operating temps are achieved. I recall watching my oil temp vary wildly depending on freeway vs stop and go traffic
Originally Posted by Tigger2011
Bingo and for good reason. Generally speaking you never want to see oil temperatures exceed 300ºF. As oil temp increases, viscosity drops, oil pressure drops and more heat in the engine is generated, creating a viscous cycle. Ideally you want to keep oil temps below 250ºF. We all know our vehicles uses a heat exchanger in order to use the coolant system as a heat sump. Even during normal daily driving with a water temp of 225ºF, oil temps can run 235 to 240ºF. At that coolant temp one only has 75º of head room to play with, not considering the efficiency loss of the exchanger. By lowering the coolant temp you've increased the margins of your heat sump from 75ºF to 115ºF.
Oh, not trying to cause an issue with coolant temp. Knowing that the oil is water cooled, I was actually looking to see if it was possible to come up with what Tigger2011 said. Hence my curiosity about how much the tune drops the coolant temp.
This conversation caught my attention as I have seen oil temps in the 275 deg F range on the track and I have been looking for ways to keep that down. With respect to the sport button, I haven't seen a temperature drop when using it on my 2012 (early production). My car runs at 216F and my oil runs 220 - 235 F in most driving conditions.
Oil temp is one of the options on ScanGage and is part of the N18 engine functions. I don't know if it shows up for the N14 engine. I monitor oil temp, water temp, volts and boost.
BTW - ScanGage also can read oil pressure but I have not found out how to program it.
My tune dropped the coolant temp to 170 F only when cruising and WOT. Around town the cooling system cannot keep it there though
Remember when speaking of oil temps., they vary from location to location within the motor with the turbo being the most brutal loca. obviously. The point that was brought up was moisture in the oil which only becomes an issue if and when it becomes an chocolate milkshake. In moist climates I've seen just a hint of this on the oil fill cap but not enough to worry.
Just remember to buy the proper API rated oil for turbo motors and change it every 5k miles max.
10-28-2015, 09:14 PM
