I'm heading down the rebuild path myself; N14 JCW finally burned a piston.
Euler,we had communicated about a CF VC awhile back. Hows your motor holding up?
I really wonder if a factory rebuild JCW can handle 25 psi of boost? I hear conflicting stories.
Some folks believe the JCW N14 can handle higher boost levels.
I have the shop foreman at the local Mini dealer trying to confirm components used in their motors.My motor failed b/c turbo flange gasket blew out and super heated the entire engine compartment

 

Hi. If you like short periods of wide open throttle then u may get away with ur 25psi as long as u use very good fuel.

The jcw turbo is out of its efficiency zone after say 18psi so every psi after that is extra intake heat extra exhaust back pressure and creates more exhaust gas temp. Okay so u retard the timing to stop detonation.. this just means more exhaust heat again. So add all that up and the issue with long periods of wot become obvious I hope. Short 2nd 3Rd 4th is probably fine. Go for 7000 rpm in 5th and then try fr 7000 rpm in 6th and u are on very shaky ground. It's a shame to rebuild it and break it again. The turbo also needs a 360° thrust bearing installed to be comfortable at such high boost. My view is 1.1 bar held on a good intercooler will make about 220 wheels 245 engine and shouldn't be too hot. 1.2 held maybe at say 230 wheels 255 to 260 engine. After that good luck. I've just rebuilt mine and a thread under projects on minitorque.com

All the above is said to try to not give false hope. Not being a negative person at all. Good luck

 

Euler, you say the OEM rod angle ratio is 1.8 ? I was always under the impression you didn't want to exceed 2.0 , are you saying the 1.8 is to much ?

Sounds like you guess are paving the way for people like me. I'm going to go down this road but first I want to work on making the stock motor the most efficient it can with an intake and exhaust. with that being said I'm sure 8-10 months and I will start putting the motor parts in a pile.

Hows the valve cover project going ? I'm glad someone is taking an approach at fixing that issue. My thoughts so far has been to come up with a means to do away the the OEM and run and external vacuum pump. The problem there is longevity of an electric pump. Fitting the engine with a belt driven could be done but a pain and uses hp to turn it.... Not enough vacuum created with an exhaust evac system , you might could at the DP close to the turbo. Looking forward to your findings with the valve cover...

RW - where you happy with your guys work with the motor plate ?

 

@ridindirty: If you mean the cylindersupportsystem by Jeff at CNCWerx. Yes we are impressed. We happened to see a couple of Honda engines that had something similar but it looked like they had a set size of plate and then machined the block quite a bit to get it to fit where as it looks like Jeff did proper analysis of the block and only took off the small amounts needed and then fitted a plate that was very well shaped to the block.

All the engineers who have seen my block since, like it a lot.

If you mean torque plate, that was something we hadnt used before and we were happy with how it went. We had to have a tool made up to measure the bores now that they were so deep, ie all the way through the depth of the torque plate.

I didn't get much feedback on this forum for my build thread so located it on www.minitorque under r56 projects. I will be keeping that right up to date.

There is quite a bit more info there and you can see how it is looking before we get into cleaning every aspect and starting to build up the bottom end this saturday.

Cheers

Steven RW

 

RW yes, I'm about halfway on you miniTorque forum. Looking nice , I'm going to follow your plan looks like, tighter pistons clearances due to street car etc. I will be bugging you at some point when I get to the motor..lol

Intake manifold is fixing to be my main project for now.

 

CP give clearances based on what you tell them you will be doing with the car, so probably between 2 and 3 thou for you, I expect. We will see!

I'm keeping an eye on whatever you get from your inlet manifold. Are you retaining the standard throttle setup?

 

agree that the JCW or stock turbo just runs out of breathe pass 18 psi . My log files with the stock turbo would show at about 4500 rpms the MAF could only push about 21-22lbs/min and boost would pull back.
The Owens turbo fixed that and now my MAF is maxed at 25lbs/min all the way to redline with full boost now (The MAF sensor seams to be max,can't read any higher than 25lbs/min).
Major change in the car with this turbo , still has the same bottom end as it did with the stock turbo and pulls to redline

 

agree that the JCW or stock turbo just runs out of breathe pass 18 psi . My log files with the stock turbo would show at about 4500 rpms the MAF could only push about 21-22lbs/min and boost would pull back.
The Owens turbo fixed that and now my MAF is maxed at 25lbs/min all the way to redline with full boost now (The MAF sensor seams to be max,can't read any higher than 25lbs/min).
Major change in the car with this turbo , still has the same bottom end as it did with the stock turbo and pulls to redline

 

S RW.., thanks for the feedback
I do run a E45 turbo from JMTC with the latest Helix IC and race gas with meth 50/50 at 25 psi.Manic has the coolant temps at 180 all day long, 12.3 AFR at WOT and shift at 6500 as that iswhere the power peaks. I have hammered on it pretty good at Sonoma Raceway for 3 years now. I used to machine years ago....lost touch though. For simplicity and expediency I was thinking a short block from the dealer (apparently brand new from Germany and not rebuilt $2400) then do my head with some porting and plop it on top of the short block. I've heard conflicting info on the rods; I believe they are what BMW used to call sintered; a cast "pringle chip" rod that cannot be reconditioned. A little scary if Peugeot employs these rods??
I also hear the pistons are "reinforced" in the skirt area but......is this true??
When I did BMW motors, I would hear such crazy myths about the internals and stuff. Actually working with the stuff is the only way.
Anyone know for sure about the factory rods and pistons? I also read that the Mahle is superior for their dome design w/ DI vs CP.

 

Yes the factory rods are sintered i.e. powder metal forged units. Here's a great study performed on the differences in manufacturing and the resulting fatigue behavior. If you don't want to read the whole thing I recommend the first part that clarifies the difference in manufacturing and the summary at the end. Short answer is forged steel are better.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...ueBehavior.pdf

Based on anecdotal evidence the factory rods appear to be good to approx 300hp. The bigger problem is the factory rod bolts. Bolt stretch starts to become an issue around 280 ft/lbs. ARP bolts are cheap insurance. The dome design of the Mahle doesn't make much difference except at idle. Air velocity is low enough that the swirl created helps fuel distribution. Off idle the air velocity and resulting turbulence makes it a moot point.

 

Good read on the rods Tiger. Thx

 

I hear reports of factory rods failing......aliens too......haha
wonder what were the exact circumstances?? High reving and boosting vs.....bad oil, carbonized valves, wrong fuel and attendant detonation leading to blammo (sp)
I do not like the idea or sintered from a rebuild standpoint but if they, along w/ factory JCW pistons can handle 300 hp b/c 25 psi of boost with appropriate a/f coupled with proper induction and cooling then a new short block from the factory at $2400 wholesale seems like a good option. Combined with a ported & rebuilt head performed locally; like in my garage, is a win...... sorry to be rambling...

 

Indi- What's your thoughts on the jcw factory short block ? Maybe change the rod bolts out and stud the head ? Keep it under 25-26 psi ?
I like the thought of it for longevity but it would be hard to sit there with a short block in your face and not put some real insurance in the motor with rods and pistons,, lol

 

It appears the short block is only economical if you ruined your own block by say oil deprivation. The factory pistons are known to fail; broken ring lands. The factory rods are apparently good for 300-400 hp?? Issue is can one get oversized OD rod bearings so as to be able to recon the con rods?? The price to rebuild the short block with the Mahle powerpaks is approx 2500 with new oil pump, bearings, pistons and machine work w/assembly vs 2400 for the factory block with no oil pump and inferior pistons.
Sent my car to the shop today for R&R and tear down.

 

I'm looking to start the build in 6-8 months, I'm not going to use my stock motor so I can take my time with the built . On the fence with buying a junk yard motor that "runs" vs the S short block. I missed a new oem motor that had 2000 miles on it when it got taken out and totaled for 1700.00
I got my good eye out for a builder motor, nice to get a complete for the brackets, sensors etc.

 

Steven,
Sorry I missed your question,
I feel like moving the throttle further towards the intercooler will aid in making the pressure drop in the manifold/plenum more efficient. The blade angle of the throttle plate seams to aid in packing all the air flow to the back of the molded 90 in the manifold. There is a small "divider" center of the inlet to the plenum but all the flow is stacked to 3 & 4 side.

I'm working out of town till the end of April so no fun till then looks like ..

 

Pauter is out of rods and will not run unless they have a couple of orders. If anyone is looking to do their bottom end then please let me know. Otherwise its Carrillo rods for more bucks.

 

How much are the Pauter? I'm looking at building an extra late model N18 motor and besides rods I need to a company to make me OEM spec N18 JCW/GP 10.5 Pistons. The built motor will mostly likely be fitted for my new 2016 JCW CM with one of my big valved ported heads

mQubed Motorsport Manic Tuning Dealer

 

Are you sure the MCS 10.5 pistons won't work in your engine? I gotta admit to a serious lack of knowledge about JCW and GP differences, but you might take a look at CP. My CP 10.5 set has the same OEM dome shape as OEM N14 MCS pistons. I read somewhere that the JCW CR difference was only because of the piston dome shape. Is the GP that much different? Either they're the same piston or they don't make one for the N18 or GP. Also, CP says their pistons are compatible with oversized valves and high lift cams --- nothing about N14 vs N18 engines.

Nothing against Pauter, but you asked about "a company". Let us know what you come up with --- start your own build thread?

 

The N18 GP, uses 10.5 Pistons with 4 reliefs valves and I believe the N14 JCW uses 10.0 pistons with two reliefs, I'm not sure of the design of the N18 10.5 JCW's. I know there are at least 4 different style pistons form 2007-to 2016, but they are all made from the same material

mQubed Motorsport, Manic Tuning Dealer

 

Pauter rods are 900 set. If we can get 3-4 sets they might do 800 a set
I have only heard that the Mahle powerpak pistons mimic the correct crown design for the JCW but...OBW you have seen both MCS and JCW pistons?
I hears the DI and squish design need to work in harmony.
AGain, this all hearsay as I have never personally seen the components.
Also has anyone ported their own head out there. I just cannot pay 1600 for pocket work and cutting of seats that Thumper wants. In the only days that would take me me 4 hours tops on a 4cyl BMW head granted they are different but...maybe 6 hours tops for a mini head with plenty of coffee breaks.

 

I have only seen the OEM and CP version of the MCS pistons, never seen a JCW piston, and no clue about GP specs. I avoided the compatibility issue by going with the same source for rods and pistons. Since 10.5 is higher than OEM JCW CR, I would verify with the mfgr how this higher CR works with their dome design. Yes, it worked for me, but I didn't raise CR, I just didn't lower it as is commonly recommended. So, all my combustion chamber geometry is as designed, just stronger components.

As for Thumpers head work --- there are probably others out there with experience working the R56 head, and probably less expensive. I bought mine 5 years ago, before current pricing. I have little knowledge about what's involved in this effort, but I'm sure there's a significant learning curve --- to find the thin spots if nothing else. 5 years ago, there were no others, with experience, that I could find.

Finally, let me emphasize that without the head work, I would be nowhere near my 360 WHP dyno results. Other than that and the big turbo, all my other mods are easily installed and readily available. Yes, Manic raised the #'s from 312, but even that was almost unbeatable. You want serious power, you need head work! I'm convinced Thumper's work is worth his price.

 

I'm confident I can port the head properly. Most of it is just common sense about smoothing and contouring around the pockets and a nice radius on the short side around the valve seat. With the forced air induction of a turbo, the flow is facilitated more by the turbo and generally can sacrifice some efficacy at low speeds as higher power hp levels are easily reached with opening things up in there.

 

With previous experience on other heads, you should be OK. Maybe not as good as Thumper, but better than OEM. You might also consider opening up the exhaust manifold ports while you're in there, and don't forget the gasket.

Good luck, and have fun.

 

Thanks OleBW
I just purchased the burrs and paper to port and polish. I'm having flash backs to time long gone. Would be nice to have a scrap head around to test the thickness's in the pockets and side but I'll go easy and just smooth it up. I will do the exhaust manifold and match the intake too.