I'm talking with a guy who is selling his barely used ceramic-coated JCW DP and I wanted to know what was different about it compared to a Cooper S DP. First and foremost, will it bolt up to a stock Cooper S turbo and aftermarket exhaust, and secondly, does it flow a little more than the Cooper S DP?

 

It'll bolt up but I don't think it'll be any better than a S downpipe. I've seen the ad in the marketplace for the DP and he's asking quite a lot for little gain.

If it's piece of mind in passing emissions and having better flow, you're in a dead end there. Better luck finding a better aftermarket dp out there.

 

Yea it's about emissions and also having over 100K miles on my stock DP. I'd love to go aftermarket, but I'd have to get tuned to eliminate the DP CEL, then there's confusion over whether I'd still pass my emissions test that runs off the OBD connector.

 

I don't think there's any confusion about emission testing, you will fail OBD2 testing and a sniff test if that were to be performed.

I know it sucks seeing the CEL light, but I have no TPMS installed on my current wheels and I have the red "MINI on a lift" light flash on my odometer for the last 20k miles and I see that every time I start up the MINI. I've gotten over it.

 

Well there is some confusion for me because here in Austin, we don't have a sniffer test, we just have the OBD test. But we're also allowed one readiness monitor to not be ready and still pass. So in my head, I would think by having a tune on the car, be it Manic or Battle, where the CEL is coded out and the system doesn't check the O2 sensor that's plugged into the DP, that would be my one readiness system not ready.

 

Interesting interesting....but I would assume that even though you are allowed 1 readiness system to not be ready, the downpipe has two O2 sensors. So if the O2 sensors are independent of each other, you would technically have 2 to deal with.

 

But wouldn't it only be one to deal with since there's one before and one after the cat in the stock DP? As far as I know, there's the sensor up top right next to the turbo, then one down underneath that is after the factory cat. So running a catless or high-flow cat would only alter what the second O2 sensor would read.

 

Good point. Didn't think about that...curious now to see what others have done.

Either way, it really isn't that complicated to uninstall/reinstall. I'm running the downpipe without any heatshields, but I've learned that I'll need to put them on this time around. I can tell it's melting my valve cover again. lol

I'm taking off my catted ceramic downpipe and going catless ceramic coated.

 

Yea whatever I get will most definitely be ceramic coated. It gets hot enough here in Texas during the summer that the engine doesn't need to be cooked on all sides by the exhaust lol. Guess it's off to do more research. Only was looking at his DP because it was already coated and to get a DP from the dealer (re-manufactured only) is over $1000.

 

I remember when I got my iPE system installed. They asked me what I wanted to do with my old system and told them to just toss it. Should have kept my stock DP. At least I have a buddy with a stock DP, so when it's time for emissions testing, we can share it. =P

I'll probably sell my iPE catted ceramic coated downpipe soon, not sure. We'll see.

 

That will be valve cover #4 (if you include the original) will it not?

 

4 or 5. I probably didn't mention one prior at some point.

 

I am manic tuned with a catless dp and the car has no cel nor does it show cat not ready when I hook to the obd port for an emissions check. Just manic tune it and your good to go

 

So you've gone through an emissions inspection with the tune and DP installed?

Where are you located?

 

in in MA very strict here not as bad as Cali or NJ but still pretty tough. I haven't gone through inspection but I work for a dealership and had my car hooked to the scanner for the stickers and had no fault codes all systems showed in a ready state. If I needed a sticker I would have passed.

 

There is also O2 sensor spacers that can also trick OBDII scann. But if there is a sniff test you will not pass.

 

Thankfully we don't have a sniff test here in Texas, and only in certain countries do we have any emissions testing. Unfortunately I live in one of those counties lol.

 

Nj is not much different we are allowed one not ready and even two not being ready depending on the year yours is newer it would be one but case and point you would pass we only plug into obd 2 port check for readiness and away u go as long as the cel isn't illuminated

 

Beating a dead horse, but if the tuner is reputable, the will tune out the CEL associated with bad emissions. Since all Texas requires is the OBD II you will be fine. I am from TX and keep my car registered there and have had 0 issues

 

CA just did away with sniff test on newer cars (2000 and up I think). With catless DP u will get a CEL and in CA thats an automatic fail.
Get a Manic tune and no more CEL and unless they are looking for a cat, the car should pass.

 

No CA has not done away with the sniff test on new cars, but new cars get 6 years before you have to do the first test.

Fines for getting rid of emissions equipment in CA are very high, as they should be. Personally I think it is stupid and selfish for people to be getting rid of their catalytic converters to gain a few HP, we all breathe the same air. I grew up in LA in the 60s and 70s when the air was brown and foul all the time and on a bad day it hurt to breathe. We have emissions regulations and testing for a reason. If you want to know what nasty air pollution is like, just go to China or India (I have been to both places multiple times in the last few years) and see what the smog is like there. Awful.

Getting rid of your catalytic converter is just "sh!tting where you eat" as I heard a Texan say. If you're going to foul the air for the rest of us - how about if I come over and take a dump on your front porch? Seriously - think about what you're doing and why. Is the extra few HP really worth it? Want to go around wearing a surgical mask all the time and have the increased rates of disease and lower life expectancy like in China? You can get a tune and increase HP without getting rid of your cat. Sure you'll be leaving a few HP behind, but unless you're racing, are you really going to miss it? There's a reason all those catless downpipes are "for off road use only."

And don't give me the argument of "I'm just one person in a million, it won't make any difference." I'll just say "you've got a big house/yard, there's lots of places I can take a dump, you won't even notice." What if we all thought that way? I know what that looks like, just go to Mumbai or Beijing.

Seriously people. Sorry to go off on this topic but think about what you're doing and why, and what the consequences are for the world you live in.

 

I make my living as a project scientist for an environmental firm. I know full well what the purpose of emissions systems are on cars. I'm also a diehard car guy so I see where you're coming from to a point. Engines today, regardless of cats and such, are far more efficient at reducing CO2 emissions and other stuff then in the past.

When you break down the auto consumer industry here in America, those enthusiasts that remove their cats in search of the most HP are about a tenth of everyone who just gets in their car and putts between point A and point B. What difference is there between an engine that has no cats and an engine that has fouled and clogged cats because the owner doesn't take care of the car?

Mumbai and Beijing have crap air because they pack billions of people in one area, then run engines that are rather primitive when it comes to efficiency. They don't care about having one or three cats pn their car. They car about making a car for $900 and sellers it to everyone they can. That's the primary reason you have crap air over there. And that's not even touching their lack of pollution controls on industry.

Tuners are far more prominent in California then anywhere else in the USA, and they love deleting cats and other stuff in the name of power. Yet California has better air quality today then anytime in the post-industrial age. And it's because the engines themselves have become better and more efficient with less emissions to start with.

 

Thanks for the reasoned reply to what was arguably flame-bait. I have calmed down now. I'm a car guy too, that's why I drive a Mini and not a Prius. I imprinted at an early age on a Lamborghini Miura and a Dino 246. I started with motorcycles and karts before age 10.

Yes modern engines by themselves are much more efficient and a lot cleaner to start with, but the key thing about catalytic converters is getting rid of the NOx which turns directly into photochemical smog. That's what I grew up with in LA, where there's millions of people packed into one area (like Beijing and Mumbai) and also geographical features that tend to trap the pollution. Cats also take care of CO and any leftover hydrocarbons in the exhaust stream. CO2 isn't an air pollution problem, but a global warming issue.

I really hope the number of people who remove their cats isn't one tenth, but more like one millionth of the cars on the road. On a Mini, you'll get what, maybe a 5% gain? Is that really worth it for bragging rights on a dyno sheet? It's a $2500 Federal fine, and a $2500 CA fine if you get caught. And no, you won't pass a CA sniff test no matter how good your tune is. The CO and NOx will give it away.

The difference between a car with a removed cat and one that is clogged up is the schmuck with the clogged up cat is going to get flagged at the 2 year emissions test. Then he'll either have to fix the car or get rid of it (which in CA means selling it cheap to one of the illegals who will then drive it around un-registered and un-insured, but that's another topic.) There's a reason you don't see many pre-1995 cars on the road, it doesn't make economic sense to keep them passing the smog test and most of them were crap anyway.

Modders are going to mod, and tuners will remove cats and run illegal downpipes no matter what I say, so having vented I'll go away now. But if you're thinking about getting a catless downpipe, do your research on NOx and photochemical smog and what it does to your health. You'll probably change your mind.

 

There are other reasons why some removed cats, heat in our cats normally reach 1400 degree Fahrenheit. When you turn off your engine that heat soaks into the turbo and cooks it and enters the engine. It isn't just about hp, it's about quicker spooling of the turbo and not having to deal with all that heat. In the Summer after driving 30 miles and shutting it off then returning to my MCS the IAT reach 140F+, under hood temperatures are crazy high!

I understand your point though, CA has much cleaner air than it did in the past.

 

I literally just had this discussion with a coworker earlier this week. I am not smart on all things environmental, but I would consider myself aware of the issue of global warming. My other car is a hybrid, my wife wants to ge rid of that in favor of the Testla Model 3. We recycle (often more than we throw away, we use reusable bags at the grocery, etc etc etc. But, I have a modded Mini with no CAT. I don't think this is a problem. Not only are cars more efficient, but think of sheer volume of just 1/10th of MINIs removing CATs. To put things in perspective, I fly large aircraft for a living that burn 30,000+ lbs of jet fuel every. single. flight. Multiply that by 10s of flights per day and....well you get the idea. Conservative estimates each flight is like driving my MINI approx 100-150K miles. Also, when you think of how much methane farming puts out in the world will shock you, and MINI with a decatted DP is not even a drop in the bucket (neither is 10s of thousands of them). Do I think regulating the auto industry to continue to be a catalyst for change to make more efficient cars is a good thing? Heck yea. Do I find some emissions laws completely frivolous, and while well intentioned are heavily ineffective, misguided, and just a way to divert attention from the real problem? Heck ya. Don't worry, even if every sports cars in CA decatted and used a non CARB compliant intake, I seriously doubt smog would be much worse than it is now.