I don't think so.

 

To quote one of your so called independent sources:

"My conclusions regarding airflow; who knows? This is going to have to be determined on an application-by-application basis, as the size of the air- box and the presence of upstream or downstream air flow restrictions are variables from bike to bike. The only real test I am aware of, other than to flow-bench an actual intake system (airbox and *all* intake components for *all* cylinders) for your particular machine, is to run the motorcycle briefly without an air filter to determine the power level increase without any air filter restriction. A series of timed accelerations (off-the-line and roll- on) in various gears and loads is optimal, within a specific time period of the same day and with jetting adjusted as needed during the test. If the power level increases dramatically, then the filter is a restriction and the machine may benefit from a less restrictive air filter. If the power level remains fairly constant (which most likely means less than a 5% increase in power), then the machine has intake restrictions other than the air filter and moving to a less-restrictive air filter without also addressing the rest of the intake system is pointless."

Bottom line, too many variables. So, to make an argument over a filter alone is pointless! But you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Enjoy your foam filter.

AMPR

 

[QUOTE=fuzzyface]Scottinbend, Would be interested to know where you saw it that K&N allowed more "material" through when new. ....Have heard this rumer for yrs., but, have never seen any proof that they do not filter as good as factory filters.....QUOTE]

some references not from the manufacturers:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm
http://www.tprmag.com/issue/1/ca-results.shtml
http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/

i have a few more i'll post later from home...............

 

So what the heck does this have to do with the type of filter. Looks like the quote is about the testing variables not the performance of the filter.

We can agree to disagree on this. My experience of foam filters on my bikes and cars is that they out perform "over the long run" the paper/cotton filters. I have to clean and re-oil them on a regular basis, usually about every 6-8 months, but they are still a better filter medium.

 

ScottinBend,

As I've said before, it all comes down to personal preference. Personally, I use K&N on the MINI & foam on both my land rovers. I'm not opposed either or even paper filters, but prefer K&N for my higher revving cars.

AMPR

 

I wouldn't believe the 9hp numbers for the Alta. Randy's numbers have always been high and are never duplicated anywhere else. Everyone says Alta is better, but I have never seen any proof, dyno or otherwise. Maybe I missed something here, but I think this better idea came from Randy's comments long time ago. Most people who post the Alta is better, have only ever used the Alta, and they make claims like it sound really good, and it has a cool intake hose, but no comparison against any other unit. Sure the Alta sounds good, so does most of the other open filter designs. It is the open filter design that gives the sound and the whine is coming from the supercharger and not the intake. If what you are looking for is looks and a high price, than the Alta may be your cup of tea.

Extra costs doesn't make it better. I am not knocking the Alta per se, but more of just the claims given it, by most people who have never tested the item or compared it to others. Everyone comes on here saying 9hp, based off of a small line on Randy's website, but I have yet to see a dyno comparison of the different intakes. I would bet in real world tests the Alta is 3hp and it is giving about exact same hp as all the other open filter designs. As far as foam vs. paper vs. cotton. You could argue this all day. K&N has their studies, Amsoil has there, and so on. They all have there reasons and numbers to back it up.

 

Great!!! I just ordered the Alta not more than an hour ago.... I do really like the sound of it and with the "firewall" mod, it should sound even better..... either way, 9hp or 3hp, hp gain is hp gain..... I guess....:smile:

 

That is okay, it still looks cool. If you bought it with the tube it even adds a little more of a look. Nothing wrong with the intake, it will perform great, just was tired of always seeing unsubstantiated hype on the intakes. The Mini community appears to have a lemming type of attitude and people group towards items based on one or two comments that aren't always substantiated, but most people ignore this fact and keep herding towards them. Everyone will tell you the Alta is the best, but no one quite knows why, just he said this, and she said this and so on......

 

Did the Alta Intake with Black Hose yesterday... Just had a couple questions for those that have done the install or have the mod:

First, I noticed the filter element seemed precariously loose.When I tightened the supplied clamp over the intake tube, the filter actually popped off a few times while tightening. I finally got it to a point where I was comfortable, drove the car around and it's been fine. Is this normal, I'm sure I could easily pop off the filter with little pressure?

second. The new overall sound is nice. The spin and drown are very pleasant to hear, however I believe I can hear the Throttle Body open at a certain point. While driving at low speeds this sound is very clear, at higher speeds I hear what sounds more like air being let out of a pressure valve or a light whistle. This is at a very distinct and repeatable point when pressing down on the gas. Sound familiar?

I have an 04 MCS, here's the finished product: http://citsof95.com/gallery/mini/CIMG3012

 

Hey mini626!!

I took most people's advice and i went for the Alta Air Intake. I have the same one as yours with the Black hose. You have to make sure that the filter inlet is dry. It will come oily so you have to dry it because when you clamp it on it will keep slipping. When i test drove it after I installed it, I felt great power right away. I am able to hit anywhere between 70 to 75 on 2nd gear alone at the redline. I am sure you are going to love the results. Next mod will be either the 15 or 19% pulley . The sound that you explain is familiar. My take on it is that when it does that, lots of air is being rushed in through the filter and on to the throttle body giving you lots of power when you drive.

 

How did your air filter change your gearing and/or rev limiter?

 

Oh, I already love the feel and response... I'm more concerned with the sound... does yours whistle? I've found some other posts about the sound and it appears that the consensus is 'normal'

 

does it matter how much the intake really makes? all the intakes on the market makes within 2-3 hp of each other... is the 9 hp 'claimed' by randy gonna be a dramatic difference compared to say the rdr one which 'claimed' to make 14? to a normal person i doubt the difference of a few extra ponies won't be noticeable

 

Yes it does whistle so its pretty normal.

 

Hey Andy!!

The gearing still felt smooth. As i test drove after my install, i really felt a big difference. Normally on second gear you can go as far as around 60 to 65 at redline with the stock intake. When I tested, I just felt the difference by looking from time to time at both the speedometer and tach. I am satisfied with the Alta intake and for most of us here in the community, upgrading to an aftermarket intake is a major mod for the Mini.

 

He wasnt asking how the gearing felt, he's asking, as am I, how changing your filter changed your gearing. The MINI cant GO 75 in second gear cause its not geared to!

 

I agree with you ITS not geared to but its how you drive where you can tell the difference. When i first did the test, I drove on the local routes around where i live in NJ and at first gear my MCS was at or a little above 40 mph at the redline at 6500 rpms. After changing to second, i felt some more roar to the engine and at the redline 6500 rpm i was already around 70 to 75 mph. You know that as you accelerate you are going to feel more pull, the engines going to roar alittle more, so you are going to feel more power. You can't tell me that after you have made a modification such as an air intake that you are not going to feel a little more power on your MCS. If you don't think so, then why spend 250 on it? LOL

 

Theoretically ...

R * 60 * 3.14159 * (W * P / 100 * 2 / 25.4 + D) / 12 / 5280 / G

With 195/55-16 tires - 68.4 mph (old 2nd gear) and 63.0 mph (new 2nd gear)

With 205/45-17 tires - 67.9 mph (old 2nd gear) and 62.5 mph (new 2nd gear)

 

...I'm confused. Can someone please explain how changing the air filter changes the 2nd gear ratio?

 

It doesn't change it. Some of the other posters don't know what they are talking about. But I am sure the aftermarket companies just love them. First off, horsepower, roar, whooshes or anything else will not make the car reach a higher speed in second gear. It may do it quicker, but the speed at the rev limiter will always be the same. We have had this discussion so many times, but somehow people do not understand the mechanics of gears. Even if the Mini had 1,000hp, the speed at 6500rpm in 2nd gear will stil be the same for a 100hp Mini at 6500rpm in 2nd gear.

Secondly, Poderes1, the roar or increase in sound doesn't make it go any faster. Maybe makes the money from your pocketbook go faster. But sound is not directly related to power. You also stated "You can't tell me that after you have made a modification such as an air intake that you are not going to feel a little more power on your MCS. If you don't think so, then why spend 250 on it?" Many of us didn't spend $250 on an intake. The power is the pretty much the same for all the intakes. Just some people have to justify the large expenditures of money they make. If someone can show independent dyno results for the various intakes, under controlled conditions showing more than a 3hp difference amongst them, I will eat my words. Randy showed some high numbers, but no one ever attains his numbers.

 

It won't ... the transmission gear ratios have changed effective with July 2004 builds. Cooper S models built prior to July 2004 will attain a higher speed in 2nd gear [gears 1 - 5 actually] than those built from that month forward. None will "theoretically" attain 70 mph at 6750 rpm in 2nd however

 

THANK YOU MINIAC. I FEEL LIKE MY HEAD IS GOING TO BLOW OFF LIKE YOSEMITE SAM

 

My head hurts.

So many flames, so little time

FWIW- after changing to a 19% pulley i quickly noticed the limitations of the stock airbox. the SC would spool up nicely to about 5000rpm then it was like someone threw out a parachute from the back of the car.

then the HAI.-- Holy cow what a difference. very smooth very linear spool up of the SC all the way to the rev limiter. plus you can scare soccer moms and little old ladies with the SC whine

my guess is that people are feeling this same phenomenon and calling it a 9HP increase.(which it may be...show me the data) ty dgszweda

my butt dyno definitely feels a smoother pull and therefore more power with a non-stock air setup. cold, hot, lukewarm -I don't think it matters, BUT anything is better than the stock setup.
and for $35.51 shipped to my door, the K&N HAI works great.

and unless you have a very generous mechanic changing gear ratios for you, changing the intake does not make your car go faster in any given gear. it can however help you ACCELERATE more quickly to a given speed.

 

I remember from a someone I knwe who raced motorbikes that Foam filters are good, but that the oil that the foam is impregnated with sometimes attacks the foam and causes it to deteriorate and flake off into you intake system. This might be of concern to us that use these filters for the long haul. I stuck with a KN type just because of that risk.

 

On intake filter systems a CARB number is not needed. As a Ca. Smog Tech., this is what I go by


This is from the California Smog Check Inspection Manual



“Items that are not of concern as long as the required emission controls are connected and functioning. (No Executive Order number is needed).



* Non-thermostatically controlled air cleaners and/or elements. (Note Applicable PCV and/or EVAP systems must remain closed with the new air cleaner assembly installed. Additionally, any other emission related components must remain intact)

* Air conditioner cut-out systems

* Anti-theft systems

* Blowby oil separators and filters

* Electronic ignition systems retrofitted to vehicles originally equipped with points, as long as the original advance controls are maintained

* Engine shut off system

* Governors

* Ignition bridges and coil modifications

* Throttle lockout systems

* Intercoolers for OEM turbochargers

* Under-Carburetor screens

* Vapor/steam/water injectors”