Just saw this post over at mini2

"Originally posted by 911ETR
Check this out:

Hi Bryan,
Here is the Dyno Sheet on the Mini Cooper "S" The car was completely stock other than the exhaust.

http://www.magnaflow.com/corey/Mini-Cooper-S.jpg

As for a place to purchase, The best price I have heard of is $599.95 from Performance Parts (714)637-1357
Thanks for your interest in MagnaFlow,


Jim
jcates@magnaflow.com
Jim Cates
Direct Sales Manager
MagnaFlow Performance Exhaust
1-800-990-0905 ext.1167
Fax (949)858-3600
http://www.magnaflow.com
"


I'm not sure what this means in regards to validity, I don't know enough about dyno readings but I look forward towards hearing from you guys and gals who have spent quite a bit of time around a dyno.

 

I'm no engineer, but that dynosheet looks wrong. The HP continues to increase all the way up to redline (there is no peak). Every other dyno result sheet I've ever seen shows peak horsepower well before red-line.


_________________
Dominic MINI Cooper S

 

Maybe...like the Energizer bunny it keeps going and.....

 

of all the exhaust companies in the world how is it that only one has been able to get those kinds of gains? do they have some sort of super bending process? come on.


anyone do a headder (sp?) yet? cat back is great, but engine block back is even better. very noticeable on a normally aspirated engine, i can't imagine how it will be with a supercharger.

 

Hey guys my name is Ellis, I had a posted email that I sent to blake on the first page.

All I have to say is the Skepticism surrounding our MCS system is understandable. When I first heard the numbers I was amazed. But we do not inflate our numbers or "trick" the dyno into making better numbers whatsoever!!! Why?- Simple because if they didn't perform then there are a lot of very unhappy customers! then there is the possibility of lawsuits due to false advertising. Furthermore this leads to a bad reputation for a company which we have worked too hard to achieve.

So basically I am saying doubt all you want, but in the end I will be the one laughing because we let our products speak for themselves. I have this same problem with each system I introduce- nobody ever believes the numbers at first. And to X2Board- as to your comment that there is no way that ur system outflows the stock, nice assumption but wee would never sell a system that doesnt make any power. Plain and simple.

Maybe the difference in design is why we get such a big HP gain.

Well I will be quiet finally and the truth will come out soon enough. Stay tuned and thanks for viewing

 

>>I'm no engineer, but that dynosheet looks wrong. The HP continues to increase all the way up to redline (there is no peak). Every other dyno result sheet I've ever seen shows peak horsepower well before red-line.
>>
>>
>>_________________
>>Dominic MINI Cooper S
Hey Dom,
Look closely, I think you mixed up the torque and hp curves the hp does peak then drop. The top two lines are hp bottom are torque.
Press on Regardless

 

Ellis,
sent you a pm. check and reply if you will

 

Hi Ellis,

Didn't mean to cause such a raucus with the post, but like I said earlier, I would almost give you my first born for a MCS exhaust system that put out 18hp. Therefore I really want to research before I sign away the kid. But in all seriousness I can't wait for 911etr to get his system, if it's as good as the 18hp claim says it is, I'll take 2, one for my MCS, and one to hang over my fireplace, well maybe just one, but sign me up. I know you guys put out quality products because alot of my off road buddies swear by your mufflers, but with all the craziness that is happening in the MCS tuning scene because of it's infancy, you can all understand where we are coming from. Can't wait to see and hear one of the systems. When I get back to california I am going to go down to newport beach and visit special vehicle concepts and talk about some upgrades, they love your exhaust system. Thanks for the info, look forward to more pics and a video

Blake

 

EDITED:

Someone's [NOT] faked this one. Torque and HP curves are supposed to cross at 5252 rpm (hp = torque * rpm / 5252.) It's a mathematical certainty, regardless of what software they're using, or whatever response they give, that the curves cross there.

The math works out. They're using different Y scales on the left and right (e.g. the numbers for the Y scale don't line up.) The curves would cross at the correct point, if the two lines were graphed against the same scale. Dynojet, eddie current, et al all use a consistent scale that reflects this. At ~5200 torque and HP are both ~116.

Mea Culpa.

Jeff

 

Hey Ellis,

Just wanted to say thanks for posting.

It is good to see someone stand behind their product with sincerity.

Look forward to seeing the product in action :smile:

 

>>
>>
>>Someone's faked this one. Torque and HP curves are supposed to cross at 5252 rpm (hp = torque * rpm / 5252.) It's a mathematical certainty, regardless of what software they're using, or whatever response they give, that the curves cross there.
>>
>>I'd be suspect.


Not that i'm not suspect, they have the wrong lines highlighted.. ignore the highlight, and just match the color of the lines and it'll make more sense...

but the line Umm.. well, let's just put it this way.. have you ever saw a McDonalds commercial where the CEO of McD tells their potential customers that they will be 'laughing' in the end if the potential customer goes to Burger King instead because he knows that McD burgers are better then BK burgers? That would probally make me want to go to BK more...

Rocketboy_X

 

Ellis, I think everyone here would love to have an exhaust that gains 18hp, but you will need to back up your claims with some hard data. Please explain your dyno process and conditions. Specifically, are the comparison runs done under the same conditions such as air temp and most important, engine temps. It would not be too hard to a dyno to show an initial 18hp gain if the stock run was done with a hot engine (hot intake air), and the modified run with cold air coming into the supercharger. However when the temps were equalized I would suspect the modified run numbers would go down significantly. You might also explain the very odd configuration of the flow. Why there is no "Y" at the entrance to the muffler "loop". Do you believe a "T" flows better than a radius or "Y"? Additionally, after passing thru the mufflers, how it is remotely beneficial for the exhaust gases to directly oppose one another before having to fight their way out of the right angled exits?

Maybe a back to back comparison run against a Borla (which most people on this board seem to like) under the exact same conditions and temps would allow you to show your superior numbers.

 

If they're so confindent that their system produces 18 hp, then they should be willing to send the system to someone outside their company to test and report on.

 

Quite right. Sorry...

>>Hey Dom,
>>Look closely, I think you mixed up the torque and hp curves the hp does peak then drop. The top two lines are hp bottom are torque.
>>Press on Regardless

 

i have seen a photo of a stock S exhaust and i must admit, it looks terrible. and any aftermarket exhaust will be a dramatic improvement, but i am still having a hard time with the 18hp.

 

>>Unless they are not showing the full kit in that pic, the Magnaflow system does not even go all the way up to the cat???? It would be good to see someone throw that system on a chassis dyno that does not work for Magnaflow. Its real easy to trick a chassis dyno and make the numbers read what YOU want them to read.

I know Helix has a Magna Flow on order and will be dynoing it. They do good work

 

Saw that SVC exhaust at http://www.lacar.com/obp/minisvc/
Looks like the tip is too close to the plastic. I think I'll stick with the stock exhaust until I see something really great. Plus I think the 19" wheels on that SVC MCS looks too big for the little car. Hasn't SVC heard of the problems with extra unsprung rolling weight?

 

Dominic- We have sent systems out to companies and mini cooper tumers for testing. We have told each the same story. We will send you a ssytem, you can test it, if you do not like it we will give you your money back- No questions asked.

Rocketboy- Go buy Borla or whatever company you feel like. In fact all of you can go buy from another company. If you don't like the tips fine we dont expect everyone to like it, thats impossible. But nobody stands behind their products like we do.

We dont have a Y because during R&D we founf the T formation works better. We also ran 2 individual tailpipes after the mufflers and found there to be a -6hp difference. The Loop from what my R&D dept. tells me creates a series of Venturi effects or mini tornadoes, that performs much better than conventional designs.

In the pic the full system is not shown. Do you guys really think we would sell a "Catback system" if it wasn't a catback system??? The Showcase Cabinet is only so big people...

 

Not all of us are against Magnaflow! Personally, i'm really excited to see what your system can do...and to hear what it sounds like! The performance gains do sound almost incredible, but hey, the *car* is unbelievable in the first place so i expect to see individual testers reproduce your results. Magnaflow...is there any chance we can get you to post some video or sound clips of the exhaust? I'm sure thats one thing we're all interested in....

 

>>Rocketboy- Go buy Borla or whatever company you feel like. In fact all of you can go buy from another company. If you don't like the tips fine we dont expect everyone to like it, thats impossible. But nobody stands behind their products like we do.
>>

Actually, I didn't even mention the tips... I just questioned the attitude of the 'company' response to all the doubt...

Rocketboy_X

 

I'm with grinder. Can't wait to hear more about the system sounds very exciting.

 

>>Dominic- We have sent systems out to companies and mini cooper tumers for testing. We have told each the same story. We will send you a ssytem, you can test it, if you do not like it we will give you your money back- No questions asked.
>>
>>Rocketboy- Go buy Borla or whatever company you feel like. In fact all of you can go buy from another company. If you don't like the tips fine we dont expect everyone to like it, thats impossible. But nobody stands behind their products like we do.
>>
>>We dont have a Y because during R&D we founf the T formation works better. We also ran 2 individual tailpipes after the mufflers and found there to be a -6hp difference. The Loop from what my R&D dept. tells me creates a series of Venturi effects or mini tornadoes, that performs much better than conventional designs.
>>
>>In the pic the full system is not shown. Do you guys really think we would sell
a "Catback system" if it wasn't a catback system??? The Showcase Cabinet is only so big people...


Relax. Breathe. We are just asking questions. No need for violence.

 

>>Relax. Breathe. We are just asking questions. No need for violence.

Im fine- Questions are fine, but I hardly call raising flags saying BS is "raising questions" And some members saying "there is no way that will outflow the stock system," And saying that our design is bad because we do not go with the flow like other companies did on this system, asking questions.

Once again we did a lot of R&D and found that this desgin performs better than running 2 individual pipes after the muffler. Design may be Non-Conventional, but it works!

All misconceptions will be worked out soon enough... :smile:

 

Question (not doubting anything here :smile: )...I don't know the difference between dyno results. There is a dyno result posted on MINI-Madness.com for their air-intake system that shows similar HP/Torque numbers for their air intake. A difference is the baseline stock MCS...higher than your baseline. Both dyno results say they are SAE, the MINI Madness results say "SAE Corrected". Is there a difference. If so, what would your corrected numbers be?

Thanks.

Would love to hear a sound clip of your exhaust.

 

MagnaFlow,

I am interested in your numbers. I do not doubt your claims and your R&D, but I may take another tack toward all of this if I were you. I have started a MINI performance shop and currently run the Borla (which I have been completely satisfied with) but would be happy to put one of your systems on the car and do some testing. The Denver area has one of the most active MINI clubs, so your unit would get plenty of exposure, and I would be glad to give a comparison write up here on MCO and our newsletter with completely objective criteria. It just seems a better way to handle the questions than to argue your point with posts.

Randy Webb
MINI Cooper Motorsport