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This sounds a lot like MHD times for the N54s. A tad less actually. On our N54s depending what ecu you have its anywhere from 20-40 minutes lol, for the first initial tune. After it’s only about 2 minutes to change maps etc. I have a N14 do you guys have that working for this car? I’m new and just bought my r56 so I’m looking around for all the fbo parts etc
The principle is the same. You have the advantage of being able to return the vehicle to stock, have multiple tunes you can switch between and it makes remote tuning very easy. The difference in speed stems from two sources. 1. The Siemens MD80 has a slower transmission rate than the newer Bosch ecu's and 2. Most bluetooth connectors I have tested have a very high latency when transferring data compared to a wired connection or even wifi for that matter.
Yes the Stage X handheld is compatible with the N14, N18, B38, B48, N20, N54, N55 and B58.
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Last edited by Lou@Prototype-R; 01-08-2020 at 01:25 PM.
Hmm... by their reputation I'm surprised to hear that. I would double check the MAF connection just to make sure. The original N14 Euro spec vehicles did not have a MAF sensor. It wasn't until later later that BMW added it like the US models. The MAF is important because the vehicle ECU must know the amount of air entering the engine in order to calculate the correct amount of fuel to inject. With a closed loop fuel system the ECU can adjust fueling if it was incorrect, but not until after the air fuel ratio has gone too lean or too rich. Closed loop is a good thing because it helps prevent motors from grenading. But it is a reactive system in that the cylinder has to fire before the ECU can note the deviation and correct it.
There are two ways for the ECU to know how much air is entering the cylinder. One way is via the MAF as it measures the air MASS in grams per second and reports this to the ECU. Knowing the mass of the air entering the engine allows the ECU to correctly calculate the amount of fuel to inject in order to hit the target air fuel ratio or lambda. The other way for the ECU to know the amount of air mass entering the engine is to estimate the airflow based on manifold pressure, the engines volumetric efficiency and the intake air temperature. This MAFless method is refereed to as speed density and it works. A good tuner can make an outstanding speed density tune but it has its limitations. The biggest limitation is that altering the volumetric efficiency of the engine will change the amount of air mass entering the engine at a given pressure. The ECU however is not aware of the change in air mass without retuning. When the ECU continues to see the actual lambda differing from the target it will apply adaptations to the base injection. This allows the ECU to be able to handle deviations but only up to a point, After that things can start to getting interesting. The ECU may trigger CEL's depending on the issue, lambda may be too rich or lean resulting in a jerkiness or non-linear throttle response during normal driving or you may see surging in boost. These will usually be most apparent during throttle changes while driving normally and in high boost / low RPM situations.
thanks for the explanation! The engine so far runs just fine and I’ve logged about 20k miles on it. I was surprised when I saw the MAF sensor not responding on my OBD fusion app. It was communicating with the MAF sensor before I sent the ECU to be tuned and then as soon as I hooked it up when I got it it wasn’t. I checked the connections and didn’t see anything suspect although I haven’t checked it with a multimeter. I asked Mario about it but I didn’t get any response from him. The A/F actual is still on point and matches the commanded A/F ratio so I just thought maybe the tune caused miscommunication with the apps PIDs. If the ECU is expecting a reading from the MAF sensor and is faulty shouldn’t it throw a code?!
If the software was not altered then yes it would store a code in memory. However, there are many functions within the software that can be deactivated. Think of the secondary O2 sensor for a catless vehicle or deactivating the vacuum valve when installing a EFR/Garrett turbo with a stand alone boost controller.
Some of these systems are very easy to deactivate by simply altering a word or even a single bit within a word. While others can require many alterations to deactivate properly.
In addition, there is often more than one way to accomplish the same task. Take the secondary O2 sensor CEL for example. Some tuners simply deactivate the test so no error is reported. Another might eliminate the error pathway so that once the error occurs internally, the ecu never activates the error lamp. Both methods prevent the CEL from coming on but neither will show readiness on the secondary O2 sensor. If however you increase the O2 sensor voltage fluctuation allowed by the software when performing this test, not only will the CEL not come on, but the subroutine will report the results as a successful test.
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Wow, great numbers and a nice power band. Tell me about the GTD turbo and the meth kit. Is the meth kit single or multi port, 100% meth or a water blend.
Thanks. With the factory clutch and no LSD a wide flat power-band was high up on my "to do" list. The GTD is the 47mm GT Dominator turbo from JMTC and the meth kit is an Aquamist HSF3 with single nozzle, 80/20 mix.
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So that’s a K04 direct drop in swap? I’m currently at 232HP and 270ft/lbs, (at the wheels). I’m looking to get my 2011 JCW to where you are. It looks like all I need to do internally is a piston swap. Are you running 10.5:1? I was thinking of dropping back to 9.5:1. How much boost are you making?
One other thing. Looking at your dyno chart it says a 2007 S, but the topic header talks about N18 tuning. Which engine are you working with.
So that’s a K04 direct drop in swap? I’m currently at 232HP and 270ft/lbs, (at the wheels). I’m looking to get my 2011 JCW to where you are. It looks like all I need to do internally is a piston swap. Are you running 10.5:1? I was thinking of dropping back to 9.5:1. How much boost are you making?
One other thing. Looking at your dyno chart it says a 2007 S, but the topic header talks about N18 tuning. Which engine are you working with.
Correct K04 swap. The JCW piston will handle this level of power but for maximum reliability I recommend CP 9.5:1 or Mahle Powerpack 10.25:1 pistons. I personally prefer CP 9.5:1 which is what the client is running. For over 300 ft/lbs of torque I recommend billet rods but if you plan to keep it to 300 or less, ARP rod bolts will do the trick. The factory head bolts are fine up to about 24 psi (1.65 bar) after that ARP heads stud are necessary. This tune was set at 25.4 psi and the GTD handled it very well but did taper down to 24 psi at red line.
The clients vehicle is a 2007 N14 S model. We view a clients dyno as their personal data. This one happened to be the first Mini we got approval to post. For BMW's we can post the following.
I'd still rather drive a Mini though... shhh...
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Speaking of getting old. I just realized I never posted the discount code for NAM members. Enter the coupon code nam50 during checkout to receive a $50 discount off the price of any tune. The coupon is valid through August 31, 2020 and good for one use per client. Additionaly, our standard discount for clients that choose to upgrade their Prototype-R stage tune to a higher stage is half the cost of the normal purchase price. As an example upgrading from a Stage 1 to a Stage 2 would be $249.50 instead of the $599 price for a Stage 2. If you are a Stage X handheld user the upgrade still includes the three performance files for the Stage upgraded to. Lastly, if you've previously purchased a tune from us before the NAM discount was offered we can apply the discount to your upgrade to reduce the cost further. Please contact us directly to discuss mods when upgrading your Stage and any special features you may want.
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I am being following this thread and it I would like to ask a few things. I am owner of a MCS N18 from 11/2010. Right now I have the following mods:
- RPMPower "3"
- Airtec V2 IC
- JCW turbo
- Pretty new HPFP
- RCZ R spark plugs
- New coils (standard on)
- KN inbox filter
- JCW box filter
- "New" motor. Unfortunately the stock one failled
- Downpipe decat
- Inlet turbo pipe in silicone
- Newest version of BOV
With this mods the car made 272hp and 360NM.
Last week I found that exhaust manifold was cracked (normal on these cars) and exhaust part on turbo was cracked also. Manifold I will replace with the newest part number it is better than the previous one. Now, for exhaust part on turbo what do you advice to do?! Right now I am waiting for a turbo shop revision and waiting for their advice, but I would like to hear your version . If I replace it it will crack again? :(
I am being following this thread and it I would like to ask a few things. I am owner of a MCS N18 from 11/2010. Right now I have the following mods:
- RPMPower "3"
- Airtec V2 IC
- JCW turbo
- Pretty new HPFP
- RCZ R spark plugs
- New coils (standard on)
- KN inbox filter
- JCW box filter
- "New" motor. Unfortunately the stock one failled
- Downpipe decat
- Inlet turbo pipe in silicone
- Newest version of BOV
With this mods the car made 272hp and 360NM.
Last week I found that exhaust manifold was cracked (normal on these cars) and exhaust part on turbo was cracked also. Manifold I will replace with the newest part number it is better than the previous one. Now, for exhaust part on turbo what do you advice to do?! Right now I am waiting for a turbo shop revision and waiting for their advice, but I would like to hear your version . If I replace it it will crack again? :(
Thank you in advance
As far as i can see you have RPM so i would suggest you to ask your tuner and not another tuner.
I'm not sure if he can answer to you!
Lets see his answer this man is a hell of guy and full of knowledge for this car especially.
Cheers
Sounds like you've built yourself a pretty nice ride. The turbine housing is a cast nodular iron design and intended for temps up to 850C or 1560F so the more you push the motor and the higher the exhaust temps the more likely it is to fail. There are two things you can do to reduce the likelihood of the manifold or housing cracking. First up would be meth injection to reduce your exhaust temps. As an added bonus you get the benefit of reduced detonation and your intake valves will stay cleaner longer. The second option would be to port match and polish the exhaust manifold and turbine housings. Being a cast piece you can easily see the porous surface. The exhaust manifold usually cracks near the radius of the scroll divider. Blending and smoothing that area reduces stress risers where a crack can begin due to thermal cycling. When you have the manifold and turbo off you can also use some machinest dye or modeling clay where the two meet to make sure you have a smooth transition of the divider and flange. Any corners or lips sticking out will create a hot spot. Blending of the turbine housing will also help. The most common areas are again the scroll divider and a little further in where the exhaust stream is split and flows into the wastegate port.
Repairs could consist of replacing the turbine housing. New BW housings are available in the $600 range. I would steer clear of Chinese cloned housings. In our testing we found an exceptionally high rate of occlusions and voids in the castings. Alternatively, your shop may be able to weld the housing. You'd be surprised what a really talented welder can accomplish. I have seen weld repairs in the downstream part of the housing near the turbine wheel exducer last for years.
__________________ Custom tuning solutions for BMW & Mini.
You always have the most detailed explanations, I love it. Do you know of anyone, or shop, that offers good pricing to port the exhaust and turbo?
Originally Posted by Lou@Prototype-R
Hi Subscope,
Sounds like you've built yourself a pretty nice ride. The turbine housing is a cast nodular iron design and intended for temps up to 850C or 1560F so the more you push the motor and the higher the exhaust temps the more likely it is to fail. There are two things you can do to reduce the likelihood of the manifold or housing cracking. First up would be meth injection to reduce your exhaust temps. As an added bonus you get the benefit of reduced detonation and your intake valves will stay cleaner longer. The second option would be to port match and polish the exhaust manifold and turbine housings. Being a cast piece you can easily see the porous surface. The exhaust manifold usually cracks near the radius of the scroll divider. Blending and smoothing that area reduces stress risers where a crack can begin due to thermal cycling. When you have the manifold and turbo off you can also use some machinest dye or modeling clay where the two meet to make sure you have a smooth transition of the divider and flange. Any corners or lips sticking out will create a hot spot. Blending of the turbine housing will also help. The most common areas are again the scroll divider and a little further in where the exhaust stream is split and flows into the wastegate port.
Repairs could consist of replacing the turbine housing. New BW housings are available in the $600 range. I would steer clear of Chinese cloned housings. In our testing we found an exceptionally high rate of occlusions and voids in the castings. Alternatively, your shop may be able to weld the housing. You'd be surprised what a really talented welder can accomplish. I have seen weld repairs in the downstream part of the housing near the turbine wheel exducer last for years.
We're veering a bit off topic but most any shop with experience in porting cast iron heads can port match and polish the requisite areas. You're not looking for a performance port so much as a polish and blend. A performance port on the manifold and turbine housing requires careful shaping of certain areas followed by extrude honing. Anyone selling a performance port without the extrude honing is wasting your money from a performance perspective as its just not possible to get deep enough into the exhaust manifold and twin scroll housing to make it worthwhile.
__________________ Custom tuning solutions for BMW & Mini.
Thank you. I apologize about that. I'm looking forward to hearing more feedback from other people about your Prototype-R tuning. I'm definitely intrigued!
Originally Posted by Lou@Prototype-R
We're veering a bit off topic but most any shop with experience in porting cast iron heads can port match and polish the requisite areas. You're not looking for a performance port so much as a polish and blend. A performance port on the manifold and turbine housing requires careful shaping of certain areas followed by extrude honing. Anyone selling a performance port without the extrude honing is wasting your money from a performance perspective as its just not possible to get deep enough into the exhaust manifold and twin scroll housing to make it worthwhile.
Sounds like you've built yourself a pretty nice ride. The turbine housing is a cast nodular iron design and intended for temps up to 850C or 1560F so the more you push the motor and the higher the exhaust temps the more likely it is to fail. There are two things you can do to reduce the likelihood of the manifold or housing cracking. First up would be meth injection to reduce your exhaust temps. As an added bonus you get the benefit of reduced detonation and your intake valves will stay cleaner longer. The second option would be to port match and polish the exhaust manifold and turbine housings. Being a cast piece you can easily see the porous surface. The exhaust manifold usually cracks near the radius of the scroll divider. Blending and smoothing that area reduces stress risers where a crack can begin due to thermal cycling. When you have the manifold and turbo off you can also use some machinest dye or modeling clay where the two meet to make sure you have a smooth transition of the divider and flange. Any corners or lips sticking out will create a hot spot. Blending of the turbine housing will also help. The most common areas are again the scroll divider and a little further in where the exhaust stream is split and flows into the wastegate port.
Repairs could consist of replacing the turbine housing. New BW housings are available in the $600 range. I would steer clear of Chinese cloned housings. In our testing we found an exceptionally high rate of occlusions and voids in the castings. Alternatively, your shop may be able to weld the housing. You'd be surprised what a really talented welder can accomplish. I have seen weld repairs in the downstream part of the housing near the turbine wheel exducer last for years.
Hello Lou,
Thank you very much for your input. it was a really nice explanation.
Unfortunately I use my Mini as my daily car so the best option (meth) it is not an option at all, because I don't feel comfortable to have methanol on my trunk :(
The second option I didn't know about it and I liked the approach. Today I spoke with turbo shop about my turbos (because I sent to them my JCW and my S turbo) They will "port" the turbine housing of S turbo to JCW,. Turbine housing on Turbo S is a little bit cracked on the bottom but nothing special so I will use it and I will be careful and time by time I will take a look on that. But now I will have a pretty new exhaust manifold :P My previous was cracked everywhere. Manifold exhaust and turbine housing were cracked because before I put RPM remap on my ECU I had a bad remap that helped to destroy my previous motor. I had a really poor AFR so it could help to increase my EGT and cracking all this stuff.
Regarding turbo I will keep this one as I said but I already was study the hypothesis to upgrade my turbo to a SX K03-2080 (upgrade version from BW). They said the Turbine housing were reinforced and improved so maybe it could be a nice option. What do you think about it? Once again thank you for your clear input
Regarding turbo I will keep this one as I said but I already was study the hypothesis to upgrade my turbo to a SX K03-2080 (upgrade version from BW). They said the Turbine housing were reinforced and improved so maybe it could be a nice option. What do you think about it? Once again thank you for your clear input
The SX K03-2080 was an Audi turbocharger assembly in the old BW catalog that had an integrated exhaust manifold assembly. I've attached the relevant page for the Mini from this years BW catalog. The K03-2080 your seeing advertised as an SX K03-2080 is the JCW turbo. Attached is also a picture of the compressor housing from a JCW cover I had laying around. You'll note the part numbers are the same. When disassembled all of the specifications are the same.
Originally Posted by AWD_Rally
Thank you. I apologize about that.
Not a problem chief. All good questions and the only dumb ones are the ones we fail to ask, or the ones we ask but don't learn from. Hmm.. seems I've had to learn a lot of lessons that last way.
__________________ Custom tuning solutions for BMW & Mini.
The SX K03-2080 was an Audi turbocharger assembly in the old BW catalog that had an integrated exhaust manifold assembly. I've attached the relevant page for the Mini from this years BW catalog. The K03-2080 your seeing advertised as an SX K03-2080 is the JCW turbo. Attached is also a picture of the compressor housing from a JCW cover I had laying around. You'll note the part numbers are the same. When disassembled all of the specifications are the same.
Not a problem chief. All good questions and the only dumb ones are the ones we fail to ask, or the ones we ask but don't learn from. Hmm.. seems I've had to learn a lot of lessons that last way.
Hello Lou
Thank you again for your excellent explanation. Maybe I misunderstood it :(
So k03-2080 is exactly the same as JCW turbo right? Basically is the turbo from Cooper S tweaked (it results on jcw turbo). So for me changing the turbine housing maybe it will be a little risky, because the turbine housing from Cooper S turbo will be different from turbine housing from JCW turbo. The guy from the turbo shop said to me it is exactly the same. Well, apparently it appears to be the same part
Thanks again
Yes the MCS and JCW turbos share the same turbine wheel, turbine housing, center housing, bearings, wastegate actuator and recirc valve. The compressor wheel and compressor housing however are different. Our X45 and X50 series of turbos all begin life as new Borg Warner turbos so we've had plenty of opportunity to compare the two.
__________________ Custom tuning solutions for BMW & Mini.
Wow, great to hear there's finally a remote tuning solution for the N18 engines! Definitely gonna follow this thread.
On a separate note, does Prototype-R sell just wastegate actuators? Long story short I had to use my original one on my JMTC turbo and its starting to fail
01-08-2020, 01:19 PM
Custom tuning solutions for BMW & Mini.
The GTD is the 47mm GT Dominator turbo from JMTC and the meth kit is an Aquamist HSF3 with single nozzle, 80/20 mix.
. If I replace it it will crack again? :(
