Try contacting SCS Delta via email as they have recently added N18 support with their standalone ECU on their website.

 

oof. Clearly I didn’t do enough research. Apologies.

I have MOAR QUESTIONS lol

I see that speedtech has upgraded DI injectors for our platform.

https://speedtechmotorsports.com/pro...-injector-set/

With your tuning solution, would you be able to use these, with an upgraded fuel pump of course, to run flex fuel up to full e85?

My other toy is a fully built and supercharged Toyota 86. The ECUTek tuning solution disables the 2nd 02 sensor, and by connecting the ethanol content sensor through that wiring the ECU monitors the input value. Obviously from there the map can have altered fuel/timing/boost values.

I see this as an amazing opportunity other than adding port injection, but am ignorant to the capabilities of this ECU/tuning software.

Make it happen Lou! I love me some corn 🌽

 

Yes these injectors can be tuned for. Haven't spoken to Speedtech directly but their offering appears to be the Opel Insignia injectors that have been used on the Mini platform before. Bosch P/N 0 261 500 112. These are the #135 injector upgrade option that has also been used on the EcoTech L4 to about 450-500 whp. At the moment these are best paired with a larger turbo that takes a little time to get up to speed. The reason for this is our HPFP's struggle to keep up with the flow demand these injectors are capable of at around 2,500 - 3,,500 rpm. Above that the pump is spinning fast enough to do a better job.

I am aware of several projects under review for upgrading the Continental and Bosch HPFP's but to my knowledge nothing has been finalized as yet. Still, I think the corns a coming boys. It's just a matter of time.

 

Do those injectors work with our harness or do we need the Buick harness to adapt the connectors? I found out they were the same injectors out of a Buick Regal GS (2010-2013) which made it easier to get locally so I have some on the way for my build. Hopefully I’ll have everything I need for E85 this summer for some testing. Are any companies planning on selling an upgrade for the HPFP? I know Lohen has an overdrive system in the works, but they said they likely won’t be selling it by itself only in kits.

 

Duplicated due to editing so I deleted this one --- sorry.

 

Hi Lou, I'm posting this here instead of messaging you because there might be others interested in your response.

Please contribute to my learning process --- N18 vs N14. My last dyno was about 520WHP and 420 ft-lbs torque, chart attached. During the dyno run, I also ran a data log with my AccessPort, also attached. Questions I have include --- what are the advantages of having an add-on ECU, different injectors, and a higher flowing HPFP? My ECU, injectors, and fuel pumps are all OEM and have been producing this kind of chart for over a year now. Are the N18 OEM parts mentioned that much different that they need upgrading?

You mentioned "At the moment these are best paired with a larger turbo that takes a little time to get up to speed. The reason for this is our HPFP's struggle to keep up with the flow demand these injectors are capable of at around 2,500 - 3,,500 rpm. Above that the pump is spinning fast enough to do a better job." My current turbo (GT25-660) has an A/R of about 0.96 and is very slow at building boost. Is this the sort of issue the "bigger" injectors are made for?

I understand getting an add-on ECU for ethanol or a lo-budget WMI system, but according to my data logged LTFT and STFT readings, my Aquamist HFS4 seems to be doing OK. Is this the only system with an adequate set of controls? I've had it installed for about 8 years and only know of a couple other systems, none of which have all the Aquamist features.

I gotta credit Manic for his version of a "stage 4" tune and EurotechsAZ for installing it --- don't believe you were doing tunes at the time. I have zero knowledge of what map features were changed, but it's been pretty good so far. His last upgrade was done 5 - 6 years ago --- no changes to handle my 1-port to 5-port WMI mod, or bigger Garrett with tubular manifold.

Lousy chart but great numbers ---

 

The fueling system for the N14 has the exact same issues as the N18 and are basically the same. Upgrading the injectors, HPFP, and LPFP would let us run E85 or race gas to higher power levels without needing methanol to supplement the lack of fuel. For a methanol system though Prometh has some really nice stuff and there’s other controllers out there that can run it, talking to Lou he recommended to me to run the Cortex EBC which could control even a dual stage meth setup.

 

The connector is fine but you have to modify the fuel rail slightly. If you look you'll notice the centering pin is on the top of the injector (towards the rail) rather than the bottom like the stock injectors (towards the head).

 

Hey Walt,
All good questions sir. On the N18 vs N14 question there's not that much difference. The N14 HPFP does flow more than the N18 but it's not a huge difference. Quicktuba pretty much nailed it on the head as far as advantages of a standalone but left out a few. Individual cell changes within maps on the fly while tuning, launch control, no lift shifting, single source control for the engine, boost control, meth, NOS, direct ethanol input and map blending based on E content, etc. Multi map switching using a rotary switch or canbus. I'm leaving out a few more but for all the headache of wiring in a standalone you gain unlimited control. Is it necessary to make big power? Nope and anyone that would argue the point only need look at your dyno.

Downsides... Initial wiring and configuration can be a right royal pain in the tuchus. Loss of some functions depending on standalone i.e. cruise control and others. Motec doesn't work with factory alternator, etc. Also you can generally forget about any possibility of passing a state obd emissions test.

On the nozzle size vs turbo spool question. As long as you don't hit 1.5 bar before 3,500 rpm the rail pressure shouldn't dip below 10 MPa before climbing to target.

I still consider the Aquamist the best system on the market but other manufacturers are rapidly closing the gap. Add to that long lead times from Aquamist right now, and many are choosing other alternatives. Quicktuba mentioned that the Cortex EBC can also provide dual stage meth control. In addition to offering boost by gear it can also act as a direct controller for the Aquamist as well. This gives you full control of the spray volume in an rpm and boost map in the Cortex. Then the Aquamist controller handles all the housekeeping chores (failsafe, FAV driver, etc).

Based on your datalog I would say you have reached the end of what the fuel system and your current meth system can provide. AFR's are generally great and in what I would consider max power range of .80 to .82 lambda (AFR 11.76 to 12.05) with meth. Later in the pull though it starts leaning out to an AFR of 12.94 to 13.23 until you let off at 6,800 rpm. There's some discontinuity in the Access Port logging function as the fuel rail pressure reading makes no sense to me. A fuel rail pressure of 54 MPa would be 7,800 psi. The rail pressure target does make some sense. At 6,000 rpm it shows 16000 which is probably kPa or 16 MPa which is what I would have in the rail maps on a meth build. But whatever format it is using for recording rail pressure, that number peaks at 5,300 rpm and then begins falling off.

Gotta say it once again though chief. That's one bad *** build after a lot of blood sweat and tears. Bravo sir.

 

What I'm trying to show is that there is no "lack of fuel" with OEM injectors and fuel pumps. I could probably get well over 400WHP without WMI, just have no desire to try it due to the valve stem "cleaning" benefits. No WMI is map "A" on Manic's SPS switch. I've read that 400WHP is way too much power for a tracked Mini. Since I don't track mine, I have no experience with different power levels.

I understand there are some track rules disallowing WMI. Are these same tracks allowing E85 or "race gas"? BTW, the above dyno chart was using 5 gallons of VP109 on top of about 2 gallons of 91 pump gas.

Eight years ago, I don't remember Prometh having a WMI system available for the MCS. Howerton's HFS version of the Aquamist series was the popular system, and rightly so. And, I thought "EBC" was short for Electronic Boost Controller. Is this what Cortex uses to control a dual stage WMI setup? And Lou, how does Cortex EBC compare to HFS3 or 4?

Then, another question for Lou --- would "bigger" injectors and fuel pumps increase my dyno numbers, or change the power curve significantly? Or, how much power is gained by burning more fuel?

EDIT: Posted a couple minutes late, sorry 'bout that. Good info, as always Lou --- thanx.

 

I've never seen a second gen make over 340 without supplemental fueling of some kind, not even on race fuel. Doesn't mean it hasn't been done. Just means I wouldn't want to try to push it to 400. Optimum injector open time at high rpm is around 7.8ms. After that efficiency falls off and heat begins to build in the injector. I've pushed them as far as 9.3 to 9.5ms. Push them too hard though and you increase the likelihood of one failing during a hard pull. That probably won't end well.

Would larger nozzles benefit you. Perhaps, but it's hard to tell without better data than the Access Port is giving you. E85 would definitely change your power curve though. E85 brings its own oxygen to the game hence the need for more fuel. At your AFR you need 1 part fuel to 12 parts air. On E85 it would be one part fuel to eight parts air. Boil all that down and the exhaust charge when running E85 has more mass. Mass and heat is what spools the turbo.

For those kicking this idea around, the next component for upgrade after injectors and HPFP will be the LPFP. It should be good for about 400 on E85, maybe 450 but that's living on the edge. Easiest solution there is a second pump capable of 7 bar with a separate boost referenced controller.

 

Hi Lou!
I was wondering if I could ask some questions about N18 stage 1 tunes.
Stock minis are pretty fun on track, but I was wondering how much headroom there is on the tuning side with stock hardware:
1. What kind of power does a "track-safe" (91 octane, 100 F track day, 5x 25 minute sessions) stage 1 make?
2. How much boost would you run for such a "track-safe" tune?
3. Reliability is the top concern for me and so I was wondering how much data do you have on tracked minis with your stage 1 tune? (Such as: how many customers doing how many track days?)

To me it doesn't take much more power to be noticeable on track, because you'll see it come out in data (a few extra mph at the end of the straight), and I'd rather have a completely safe tune than maximum power. For some VW tuners, you can order a tune that works on 89 octane, but then run 91 octane for an extra level of safety, does this sound possible/reasonable for minis as well?

Thanks!

 

Hi yargk,

A good safe Stage 1 power level for track use on an MCS will make around 1.3 bar and 200 hp depending on the engine, mileage, etc. Spread generally runs about 5 hp either way. For this kind of application it's best to focus on drive-ability and dependability rather than max power. A linear throttle for more control at higher throttle inputs would be high on my list. If your organization allows it I would also install a larger FMIC to keep intake heat down. Data logs in high temp will tell us how she's doing.

 

Thanks for the info. I'm curious, what does the boost taper to at high rpm?

 

Depends on the individual turbo but typically about 1.1 bar for the S model, sometimes 1.2 bar. JCW turbo can be pushed to hold about 1.4 bar.

 

Small update with regards to our data logging software. The software can now also be used with the Openport 2.0 cable, and the data capture rate has increased even further. With the K+DCAN cable it was possible to record approximately 120 PID's per second on the N14 and 160 PID's per second on the N18. With the Openport cable it is now possible to record approximately 180 queries per second on the N14, and over 250 PID queries per second on the N18.

The faster the data rate the more clear of a picture the log can present. It is also possible to catch very short transients which might otherwise go unnoticed. This can also come in handy when diagnosing sensors that are not performing as expected.

 

Is there any ETA on when they will come out with and or show it off. The only thing I've seen related to E85 for these cars is RPMs post on Facebook.

 

Yes up to this point E85 conversions have utilized secondary injectors, usually paired with a split-second controller as it is inexpensive and gets the job done. I'm afraid I have been too busy and not had a chance to reach out and follow up on the HPFP upgrades recently.

 

The machine shop I sent my drawings to has been backed up and I’m not sure when they’ll be able to make it, I’m playing with the idea of getting my camshaft adapter SLS 3D printed in stainless as the turn around time would be much quicker. I already got the new direct injectors in though, but now I’m looking at fuel pump and line options to support the HPFP. I’d like to have it done by the end of the summer, but life is keeping me extra busy at the moment.

 

spent the last few days getting my clubby tuned by lou and it was a great experience! Took a list of my mods, sent me all the links and then over text and through teamviewer we were able to remotely tune my n18 exactly how i want it. The car feels like a brand new beast, so much quicker on the 3rd gear and 4th gear pulls and the top speed has to be increased (I didn't test much more than 1xx). I told lou I wanted to be the most annoying mini owner and he was able to program pops and bangs and the occasional flames on WOT and lemme tell you, it's a laugh. Lou has an intimate knowledge of the mini engines and was able to tune from his shop and fine tune it to exactly what my engine needed by data logging pre and post tune.

I'm so happy with the experience and I'd recommend anyone looking for a tune to strongly consider lou

 

Found this guy on instagram and he said his direct bolt on pump is in final production. https://www.instagram.com/p/BvPSjeGg6Du/

 

Not sure if this unit is the same as the other one under development in the UK. If it is, its been successfully tested to 420 bhp so far. Might be a good idea to start a new thread on "HPFP Developments" so everyone sees it and we get more input.

 

When he replied to me, he said its being made by a UK company, so maybe. Edit: Seems like it might be JNL Racing making it, from all the hashtags.

 

Another ig account claiming 30psi in boost. Is that legit?

 

Based on my interactions and DMs with this guy, no. He's an amateur at best and is representing himself as a professional builder. Take a look at "his" WMI direct port kit and the install video from Project MINI. It's a total hack job, poorly assembled and installed. So many potential points of failure. Basic things like solenoid placement and pump placement in relation to the injection location just to name a few issues.

When I contacted him to discuss how he arrived at the nozzle/jet size he chose, the flow rate, and what testing he had done, he was incredibly evasive. He told me that he makes the intake spacer in-house. That's right, he claimed the Craven Speed Koala as his own design. Craven Speed confirmed it as their design, they still make it and sell it to him for his "kit".

He makes big claims but does not provide data to back them up. He claims he has done extensive testing on the WMI kit but won't provide dyno data or real-world data. If that is any indication of how he operates, I'd expect the same nonsense from "his" turbo. Also, watch the boost gauge in the video he posted of this setup. The slow spool and the amount of vacuum it's under when not in boost are what I would call a "clue". Another clue, all of the warning lights on the cluster. A pro builder would correct that before trying to show off the build. I'd steer clear of him. Just my opinion.