I was wanting to know if someone know a roundabout HP limitation number for a block without the cylinder support system?
My build is almost done and will be tuning it in about three weeks. I have a fully forged block and everything in the head was upgraded. The shop that will do the tuning said anything past 300whp they recommend the CSS...that seems very low to me. Maybe it is right, I did not get the CSS bc I didn't think it was necessary for anything under 400whp. Did I make a mistake??
Mods:
CP pistons 9.5:1 Compression
Carillo rods
Rebuilt head with Supertech valves and springs with a 5 angle valve job and bronze valve guides
Meth injection kit with 93 octane
GTX2860R turbo with custom 3" downpipe and straight pipe exhaust

 

I've seen engines forged and dynoed without CSS ~300bhp and have also been told so, but ~300whp is slightly more but should be OK depending on how aggressive the tune is and you have sufficient cooling etc...

I would say for sure having something like Darton sleeves / CSS gives piece of mind knowing the engine can withstand the increase, running more torque, power & boost through the engine without engine support is a risk forged or not.

 

Thank you for your reply! Well I guess I will tell them to tune it to 300whp and call it good! Honestly, 300whp in that go kart is probably overkill anyways haha

 

Unless you're chasing numbers, a good tuner should tune your car appropriately to the hardware you've installed without any problems.

 

Yes sir! I guess I'm in good hands then bc that's exactly what they recommended. They have a 400whp Mini with a closed deck on meth.

 

Here's a link to a thread I started in the middle of my build, after a major breakdown. Pretty much describes the situation you're asking about. When you have a lot of spare time, I suggest you follow the other links in this thread to learn about the mistakes and successes I've had.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...s-phoenix.html

 

I've asked Lou from prototype-r about it and he said 320whp is the limit on an open deck block.

 

Thank yall sooooo much! Yall have been such a huge help and possibly saved me from throwing 7k down the drain. I will read that build thread and search it with a fine toothed comb to save myself some headaches

 

300 WHP i think its DAMN huge risk without forged engine either way .
300BHP is the LIMIT without forged engine and also the tune should be pretty proper.
You will probably need a meth kit to go safer up there.
270-290 BHP is the safe sppot not to think about....Can i pull again without any damages/??etc

Cheers

 

My block is fully forged with meth just no CSS

 

There's been a decent amount of cars that are making the 270-290whp on meth on the forum. Even a couple that have gone over 300whp. The tune is a major player in how long the motor will last though.

 

I would imagine that also using a non-aqueous coolant like Evans can only help to provide more reliability in your engine as you push it towards its thermal limits.... regardless of the block chosen.

Evans, over conventional coolant as it can help to minimize hotspots on the motor (Nucleate -boiling)... which can keep your engine from cooling as it reaches the physical limits of Typical coolants... I really like the NPG Evans for all but really sub zero weather



.

 

My mini is 360whp and I have run for a few years with no cylinder support system.

 

I am in Texas so sub zero Temps are very, very rare! I'll look into it for sure! This is our 5th car. We alternate 4 daily drivers so I'm not too concerned about too much wear and tear but every little bit helps, even better coolant! Thank you

 

oh wow! What is your complete setup? Who tuned it?

 

What wtq?

 

345wtq

 

Not a complete list but should give a general idea. I had it dyno tuned over a few sessions by Extreme Motorsports in Arizona.

Garrett Gtx2867R gen ll turbo
CP 9.5 pistons
ZRP forged Rods
King bearings
Beehive Titanium Springs and Retainers
ARP Studs
IP ignition coils
Detroit tuned oil feed and return lines
NGK Iridium colder plugs
GTT catch Can
High flow exhaust manifold
ATP turbo exhaust flange
ATP catless down pipe
Alta 3” full exhaust
Turbo smart Blowoff valve
AEM intake
Wagner Competition intercooler
Custom Hot-side boost tube
JMTC custom cold side boost tube with methanol bung adapter
Methanol kit - GTT Powermist system / snow performance / AEM controller
TurboSmart eBoost2
Sneed4Speed race axels
Quaif LSD
OS Giken STR twin plate clutch
Willwood BBK
KSport asphalt rally coilovers
Megan racing rear adjustable links
NRG quick release steering wheel
CravenSpeed short shifter
P3 multi gauge
VAD wide fenders
Enkei RPF1 16x9
Toyo Proxes RA1 245/45/16

 

It seems crazy to me to go through the whole process of building one of these minis and not spending like an extra $500 to have the block CSS’d. You can always look at Honda’s for this kind of stuff, a D16 has a fairly similar bore diameter and sleeve thickness and a lot of people have blown them up since they’re so cheap. It’s pretty commonly known that once you go past 350whp your sleeves are basically being kept together with hopes and dreams. A friend of mine is pushing his D16 to 400whp with no CSS and the tuner was VERY upfront that the car may very well go home on a tow truck after the dyno. That doesn’t really matter when you can get a new block for $50 and some new pistons for $100, but in a mini with some expensive CP pistons it’s just not worth the risk, not to mention you can comfortably make a lot more power with CSS.

 

Neon i was talking about for NON forged block...You cant have 300whp REAL(there are dynos that make fake numbers you know that) without forged block except if you need them just for couple of miles:D
And as i ve seen your signature we have pretty much same setup but i got no forged motor and stock turbo.
Lou is the BEST guy out there to tune our babies and a great man!!!!

 

Got pics of the exhaust manifold?

 

 

I know you are. There's a couple of dyno sheets of people making power that high in pinned drivetrain posts. Even oldbrokenwind was pushing over 300whp on his very old setup with a bone stock S motor and gtx turbo before he built his car. Unless you're talking about these cars making 300whp on a mustang dyno then yes they wont touch 300whp or even 270whp without a built short block.

 

Should I go with NGK 1 step colder or 2 step colder plugs for 300whp? Do yall have the PN?
the last thing I need to replace is the in tank fuel pump, any recommendations?

 

I believe NGK recommends one step colder for each 50-75hp you’re making over stock, so for 100hp over stock you’d go down two steps. And the in tank pump in our cars isn’t the limitation it’s the mechanical HPFP as well as the injectors that hold it back the most. So if those are staying stock just get a stock pump for it, ECS has a lot of options for them.