Here is a sneel peek of some of the things that we are working on, that is just above what others are doing. We didn't stop at just porting and polishing this intake manifold, but have gone the extra step. Ceramic coating on the out side, and a black inner Teflon coating to help airflow and reduce temperature. We all know that the Mini Cooper with the Supercharger produces high intake temperatures, but with this manifold, you will have a reduction in the intake charge temperature. (Real Life temperature chages to be released later). We also will have available the supercharger manifold, and the intercooler connector to the intake manifold, both ported, polished, and Coated for the best flow, and Lowest Temperatures! (Core charges will apply)

 

That's awesome How much?

BTW...better hurry with data before Andy and Jlm start grilln you

 

what's the price gonna be?

 

I know... I am finishing fuel tuning... (New Injector Choice 430CC direct fit), then I will be testing the temperatures. lots of projects..

 

by all means. let me jump in! I'm sure msfit secretly wants some discussion, eh?


I ceramic coated my header to keep the heat in, a very effective process. The intake air is a breath of nasty hot air and that coating will prevent dissipating some of that heat to the cooler engine compartment with the result that the air reaching the combustion chamber will be even hotter?

the inner coating sounds like a good idea for smoother flow, but again, won't any added layers prevent heat dissipation?

remember that all the cooling air passing through the intercooler goes right onto the manifold cooling its exterior.

the heat transfer concept is tricky, but my opinion is you want to try and get rid of as much intake air heat as possible.

 

This is great I'm learning something every minute:smile:

 

hey Jlm, I've been interested in the ceramic header coating stuff. I assume you have a aftermarket header coated?
Do you think it would be worth it to get the stock header done?

I was also thinking of using header wrap, wutcha think about that?

 

The concept is very cool - oops, bad pun. I see where JLM is coming from on the coatings seeming like they would insulate, but materials tech may (and would have to) have improved "wetting" for heat to soak into and through the manifold to dissipate and radiate.

I certainly look forward to a well put together testing routine to prove the concept. Reducing the MCS's IAT is definitely important!

 

the header coating isn't cheap (about $230), but reduces the surface temp by 200 degrees (according to the coater) and is harder than hell; it will not scrape off and grinding it off is tough (I had to remove a little area to weld on a third O2 sensor bung). the wrap is useful, but not as good or easy or long lasting, obviously.


seems like the rule of thumb is get rid of as much heat in the intake side air as you can and keep as much heat in the gas on the exhaust side.

as rye notes, testing may tell.

my idea would be to have heat dissipation fins all over the intake manifold and snoots and keep the surface pristine with no layer to impede heat transfer. Just like you need to keep oil film off the intercooler surfaces to promote heat transfer to the cooling surfaces/air.

 

Though this is off the topic of this thread..... Just to let you know, we can offer 2 types of header coatings. Either A Cool Chrome look, or a Cool Black Look. The Cool Chrome is $145 The Cool Black is $130.

Cool Chrome:
A high temperature, high luster ceramic Header coating that increases horsepower and reduces under hood heat temperature by up to 30%. Coolkrome eliminates thermal fatigue and looks great.

• Increase Horsepower
• Reduces Heat
• Eliminates Thermal Fatigue
• Available Applications:
Headers, Heat Shields, Air Cleaners, Intake Manifolds, Valve Covers

Cool Black:
An ultra high temperature matte black ceramic coating made specifically for high performance exhaust systems. Coolblack can withstand extended exposure to EGT of 1700 deg. It increases horsepower and reduces under hood temps by 20-30%.

• Increases Horsepower
• Reduces Heat
• Available Applications:
Headers, Exhaust Systems

 

Here is an estimate price list.

For the items ported without the coatings, it will be 285

For them coated, it will be about 410-440 (not sure yet)

Also included are the items below.

 

So if this stuff actually works, why skip the intercooler? I dont see how it could radiate in one app and insulate in the other if it is indeed the same coating.

--
Cheese

 

Very pretty!

 

Looks Pretty sweet . Cant wait to see some numbers .

 

I suppose one could argue that since conduction is the most efficent heat transfer mode for metals, that the manifiold metal will stabilize near the head temperature which is near the coolant temp, say 200 degrees F., less what ever heat the air blowing over it gets rid of. Coating the interior of the manifold with the thermal barrier would keep that heat away from the combustion air, which might be at 120 degrees F.

 

 

Nice parts Dan and thanks for pricing.

 

John,
Have you seen Hondata's "Heatshield Gasket"? It isolates the intake from the head by replacing the stock gasket with a plastic spacer that has a low coeff of thermal conductivity. They claim up to a 50 degree temp drop (5% power gain).

Link to Hondata

--
Cheese

 

bump for Pilo - free of charge

Cool Chrome REALLY works. While we complain about how hot our underbonnet is, think about those, well, less fortunate for a second:

93-95 Mazda RX7 owners.... 1.3L twin turbo, 2 rotor motor producing 280-300hp nicely modded - they all are, now, anyways....

We deal with these cars all day long - the real breadwinner of P.S.I. Motorsports, LLC being www.RX7Trix.com - these guys REQUIRE teflon interiors and ceramic exteriors for the longevity of the motors!!

As for header wrap.... nice idea, great theory, but it doesn't work... DEI is one of my sponsors and I have no problem saying that even though we carry their wrap in our store, I don't recommend using it. Those with more knowledge of high performance exhaust work than I will tell you that in theory it sounds like a great idea, but in practice it ends up hurting the car pretty bad.... don't believe me? Phone these guys,

http://www.atrperformance.com/contact_us.php

with more engineering degrees and drag racing trophies than vacuum lines in that damn wankel motor i was talking about earlier:

http://www.rx7guru.com/images/rx7vac...se_diagram.jpg

(just one of three diagrams to do the vacuum lines.... )

 

one of the arguments for header coating is to reduce underhood temps, as header are hotter as hell. The manifold is unlikely to get hotter than the head/block so it doesn't really contribute to UH temps.


so I assume Mike is talkin' about the effects of header coatings??

 

Correct - there is not as much of a need for ceramic coating the header as there is for ceramic exterior / teflon interior intake and intercooler charge piping.... in fact, in the same conversation about why ATR uses uncoated stainless steel turbo exhaust manifolds (they are turbo guys through and through), they explained that to keep the hot side of the motor too bottled up with ceramic coating, the turbo suffers.... which is why you never see ceramic coated IRON turbo manifolds....

as for N/A and S/C - essentially the same concept aft of the motor which is where they are focusing their attempt at being a player in the propulsion of spent exhaust gases by MCS owners (I'm prototyping a header / exhaust system by them I will be marketing in the next few months - completely new and original design) - the same concept applies, just not as extraordinary.... EGT on a turbo vehicle is much greater than that of anything N/A or S/C, and therefore they have reason to believe that it won't be necessary to coat the header if they can achieve a superior flow design than anything factory or aftermarket.... if the gas can escape quick enough through a well engineered header, there will be no need to coat, read: tamper with, the properties of the stainless steel surrounding the gas....

but what do I know - I sat there listening to a man with more brains in his pinky than half of Harvard talk about flow and angles and all this stuff and I might be missing something!! Made me remember about the two years of college I spent in engineering...... and also why I left it to actually be able to live my life and let someone smarter than me figure these types of things out anyways!!!

am I making sense here? basically I'm for Cool Chrome on the cold side of the engine (intake system) and don't see as much of a reason for messing with the hot side (exhaust system) if it can be evacuated fast enough.... seems sensible enough, right?

 

here is a direct linik to the coater I used for some tech testimony. Seems like reducing the underhood temp and keeping the heat in the exhaust to keep the velocity up is the goal for header coating.

http://www.hpcoatings.com/

 

Hey, Guys... Don't want you to think I forgot about this thread, just been involved in some other things for a bit (to be posted later), and just wanted to give you a sneek peek on these great new products. I will get you the numbers as soon as i can.

 

We should also consider venting the bonnet to the rear of the SC, and to the left and right. Louvers might even look cool - again, excuse the pun. This might mean we'll need to take great care isolating the SC so that incoming air does not escape the correct path to the SC via the hood scoop.

And, for this to work, the exhaust side of the venting would need to be larger than the intake side - assuming this can be described in this way, and, can even be measured.

 

so am i understanding this correctly? let's just say ~$450 for the intake manifold, and both intercooler connections, all ported and coated inside and out? sounds like a good deal to me, where do i sign up? again great job Dan! how's the header with cat coming along? keep up the good work and keep us posted.