Fantastic idea - I was rushed, so I didn't get the size/thread of the nuts used. It would probably be a poor idea to take one with me to the hardware store for matching - anyone know the size and thread of the nuts?

 

Since in all likely hood you'll need to lift the car - try checking out your local muffler shop (Midas type or perhaps even better a Pep boys) to see if they have an inventory of copper nuts. Jack, remove, size, install and drive off.

 

I think that the exhaust systems are probably choking the flow at higher RPMs, remember, HP is proportional to torque x RPM. It would be interesting to see the benefit with a straight pipe exhaust....

Matt

 

Hi
I have just fitted the OBX header with a flex joint like the standard header attached to the original cat.The header seems a little bit noisier , I have a one ball muffler with a re route pipe.
Does anyone notice that the header will glow a dull red which is especially noticeable when it is dark.This happens when the car has done 4-5 miles at speeds of 30 to 40 mph certainley not very fast.This may have happened when the standard header was in place but I never looked to check.This may be very normal as when I was buying the flex joint the exhaust company Senior Aftermarket mentioned that I needed a "interlocking strip lined flex connector" as the exhaust was known to run extremely hot ! This connector is designed to operate up to 1100 C.
I would be interested in other peoples observations

Tony

 

Tony, where did you find the flex joint? I've been looking all over on Google and so far the only ones I found were aluminized steel and are way too long.

Is yours Stainless Steel? I'd like to see a picture of your system.

 

Here is a source - NOTE PDF format. Scroll to the second page # 28. Apparently the product is made in Korea, but this is one of the distributors.

EDIT: Just found what appears to be an online retailer - though I don't vouch for 'em.

 

Thanks...
I went on Vibrant's web site and found a local distributor, since I live in Canada, it might be worth checking it out, it usually cost more unless it's in stock, but thanks again for sharing the info.

EDIT: Vibrant is in Canada, that's even better, no outragous Customs fees.

 

Hi zrwon
I bought the flex connector from Senior UK Ltd www.senioraftermarket.co.uk the item I got was AM4025-2 ILOK which is the 4" x 2.5" designed for very high temperatures.It fitted well on the cat and slightly loose on the manifold end.
Regards
Tony

 

Installed mine last week, loving them. I didn't have time to read this thread, so I've used the stock nuts - I will try and get some time in the next week or so to go back so I can stick some copper nuts on it.

Love the headers, the butt-dyno shows improvement . Car seems to rev free'er, and seems to be making more power. Now I've just got to re-tune my MTH to suit.

 

You can get stainless flex joints here but the ends aren't stainless...
http://www.pacesetterexhaust.com/perf_exhaust.htm
sorry, shoulda checked it out before posting.

So what's the verdict from everyone who installed this header?
Long term prognosis...?

 

6,000 miles - no issues, no regrets.

 

Not all flex joints are created equal:

Click here to see a larger view. This flex joint has the usual woven exterior and metal 'bellows' inside, but also adds a smooth inter-locking & flexible collar system inside. The typical 'bellows' interior or woven interior are not smooth at all, they create turbulence which impedes flow.

If you go to the trouble & expense of getting a header why not make sure the weakest link 'isn't'? ...Either use a ball-type joint (like the OBX & SuperSprint come with), or use a flex like the one above. Otherwise you'll be giving back some of your gains.

 

is the ball joint enought to handle hard driving... i'm starting to wonder the long term durability of the header without the very flexiable flex joint. anyone has experience with headers without flex joints on thier other cars?

 

There has been a lot of talk about the "ball joint".

Ball joints of this type have been around for years and used on a vast variety of vehicles/engines - with years of success.

MINI specific, I have 6,000 on my OBX ball joint and not one single problem. The day I do have a problem, I will go out and purchase another donut gasket. If you read the posts problems have been along the lines of the initial install (i.e. not double nutting/copper nutting or over/under tightening of the joint).

My take on this is use the ball joint (have it installed by someone that has experience and for gods sake double nut or copper nut) - AND if it fails then change out to the flex joint.

 

My shop, that specializes in MINIs, Alfa's, Miata's, Genettas, old Ferraris, and vintage racers, said that the ball joint was plenty with OBX header and Supersprint exhaust because the whole system from tip to header has some play/room for movement. Hard to explain without showing you. They said the spring system wasnt even necessary.

 

exactly

 

I know of one person who's gone through several gaskets - claims they've burned up & got blown out. He says he eventually gave up on the ball-joint & had the stock flex-pipe welded in. This gent also says he drives his MINI HARD on the track with regularity, and believes the OBX gasket isn't up for that type of use.

I'd like to know:
a) How typical is a ball-joint on a transversely mounted engine in a fwd vehicle?
b) Is the ball joint the right coupling to cope with the MINI’s aft-to-fore engine movement?

For those that haven't seen it first hand... the MCS engine moves quite a bit in the car under hard acceleration - it pulls back when throttle is applied, then jerks forward when you let off. I haven't measured the movement, but it looks like a few inches - if you watch a car on the dyno it's very evident. This movement is further pronounced in later production year (late 03+) MINIs, which have the 'new' engine mounts & fluid-filled damper unit on the passenger-side engine mount. Contrast this type of movement with that of a longitudinally mounted engine, which torques from side to side... The forces on the joint are different. I believe a ball joint will deal better with twisting force than it will the pull/push of aft-fore motion.

While many have said that the ball-type joint is time-tested, tried-and-true I wonder if in specific context of the MCS it is less-than ideal?

 

It may be depending on the exhaust system, but the manor in which my Supersprint is hung seems to allow alot of movement for the entire catback. It seems like this movement asorbs the stress first, before the ball joint. Could this movement be enough already?

 

How about some perspective here -

1) if one is so concerned about the ball socket on the OBX (or SS) consider buying a different header.

2) read the OBX threads - do you see a slew of NAM members bitching about the socket connection?

If it ain't broke - don't fix it!

 

1) I have an OBX header

2) Who is "so concerned" about the ball and socket on the OBX?

Some people have demonstrated interest & voiced possible concerns. They haven't gone off half-cocked or been preaching fear... Seems like what this forum is supposed to be about... Exchange of thoughts & experience between folks with a common interest - the MINI.

3) Why must "a slew of NAM members" ***** about something before it can be discussed? Only time & our willingness to post follow up reviews will tell the tale of how long the OBX headers hold up - including, but not limited to the ball-joint.

4) Regarding the member who killed two gaskets... he's well known. I don't know why he didn't post. But the fact that he didn't & yet says this happened means that not everyone is telling all in the various OBX header related threads. ...Oh, and his header was broke... so he fixed it

 

good for you, me too.

You are correct and I'm sharing mine with you - if the concern is significant then i'm suggesting that one might want to consider another header as opposed to buying this one, modifing immediately (extra $) or use the ball joint and worry about failure. Fair enough?

It's clear that some people are considering a header and yes have expressed their concern about the ball joint. So I have done two things -

1) I pointed out that this not new but is a tried and tested connection.
2) that the threads so far are not highlighting the ball joint as a problem.

Eventually the gaskets will deteriorate, that is part of the design for it is to take that stress. While the flex joints should have a longer life span at some point, they should fail as well (i.e. metal fatigue).

I am not aware of this. HOWEVER I'm stating that if NAM members were having bad experiences with this product (or others) they would not heistate to post and communicate. There are various threads on this header and so far ball joint socket failure has not been a major topic.

Correct - the board is only as good as its participants. As a NAM member and OBX header owner I have

1) shared my experiences and research in various threads.
2) took the time to post a product review. Did you?

Take the issue up w/ your well known friend. Have you considered he has not posted because - 1) he concluded the install was faulty? 2) that he realizes that the gasket is designed to take the stress and eventually fail?

You make a big point about what a board is all about " Exchange of thoughts & experience between folks with a common interest - the MINI."
Yet you have no issue slaming me for my participation. My post which you quote attempts to bring perspective (i.e. focus) and address concerns/issues raised. It does not isolate or slam any poster for there comments or points of view. I do state my point of view, my experience and ball socket knowledge. As opposed to yours which merely critizies me and adds no value to the specific thread discussion.

So if you got something to say about the topic then share it. If you disagree with me on topic than share that too and why.

 

Damn Bahama.....Write an essay y dont you...lol

I finally got the new HPR header back after they found the leak i was talkin about on the first one they sent me.

Ill take some pix of it today

 

Essay compliments of Starbucks GRANDE. Sorry about that but really now. Got the HPR in yet? if not when you do share thoughts and consider a product post. PICs? - yes please.

 

YEA I GOT IT FINALLY......LOOKS GREAT IMO....WELDS ARE THE BEST ONES IVE SEEN IN ALONG TIME....PIX COMIN

 

where have i heard that b4?? hehe juz messn wid ya