I have been doing some research on reduction pulleys. I have read Randy Webbs comments on the pulley and I will probably go with the 15 if I go with a reduction at all because I put alot of miles on the Mini and I don't want to have to change belts all the time.

I have read (see link/comment below) that Eaton/Mini quietly started coating with Teflon the Vanes of ALL Superchargers; MCS and JCW late in 2003. If it's true, I'm guessing they did not want to hype it up too much because that would take some of the percieved benefit away of buying the JCW kit. Also, with so many enthusiasts going aftermarket (and marketing the Mini to be customizable) I'm thinking Mini/Eaton decided it was a good, cheap insurance policy, to improve long-term reliability on the supercharger. Anyway, according to the mini2 thread, they used to only do it on the JCW SC version until sometime late in the 2003 build years and then they started coating the vanes on all the superchargers.

First of all, I'd like to know if there's any proof to this and second if it's true, how do you determine if your MCS has the coated vanes. It sounds highly plausible. I have an August 2003 build MCS that I picked up in late September. I have a friend that waited one month longer and got an early 2004 MCS in November.

So here's my question: How do you know if the vanes on your supercharger are teflon coated like the JCW's?

Figuring this stuff out will help me make my desicion on what size pulley to go with. So does anyone know anybody at Eaton or Mini that can shed some light on this? I have also sent an email to Eric at Helix to see if he knows. If he responds, I'll post his comments if anyone is interested.

thanks in advance,

Jake



Here is the link for the thread:
http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/10/...ulley_reviewed

Here is part of the thread with a comment from Eric at Helix:

"I have seen much 'bench speculation' on the dangers of the 17 and 19% pulleys: high AITs, water pump stress, supercharger coatings. None of these have been substantiated in dyno and road tests.


When running the car to redline in second gear, with an ambient temperature of 62 degrees f, the 15% pulley showed a peak intake temperature of 63 degrees C. With the 19% on the same day in the same test, we saw a peak IAT of 66 degrees C. This test was done on a car with a stock intercooler, RDR intake, Borla cat-back, etc.: nothing special. three degrees will not substantially change the power output, or the longevity of the motor.


I worked for 8 years with centrifugal pumps, and know that the risk of waterpump cavitation on a healthy system is nil (unless you are running carbonated coolant:-).


Incidentally, the coatings on the supercharger lobes are now all the same: stock and JCW. Sometime in early 2003 MINI (Eaton) changed the coating on the supercharger lobes. They offered it to the JCW people first, such that they could advertise a unique supercharger. Quietly, they installed the new superchargers in the regular MINIs as well.


We recommend the 17 and 19% pulleys for people who are not racing their cars, but want more low-end torque. The red line gain in horsepower over a 15% pulley is not that great in the 19%. That's because the supercharger takes exponentially more energy to spin, the faster it goes. We have seen a Peak gain of only 5-6 HP from the 15 to the 19. In racing (very different on your car than sprited street driving), the limiting factor is the belt. When running at red line for long periods of time, the belt can get hot, and if anything in the belt train is not 100 healthy (tensioner pulley bearing, tensioner dampener, idler pulley bearing), the belt can fail. This does no permanent damage to your car, just permanent damage to your chances of winning that race. For those of you that road race, the 15 is the best bet.


For street use, the effects on your motor between the various pulleys are minimal. The numbers are similar: AIT, EGT, Wide Band AFR (about 1/2 ratio point change). That's not internet speculation: we know, because we've tested it on the street and dyno. We have done near 600 dyno runs on MINIs on our in-house Mustang MD-250. We have spent the money and time to actually test these cars over the long term. Unless you've tested it, speculation about how a performance part works, is just that: speculation."

 

JCW SC's have always had CERAMIC coated vanes, unlike the stock MCS's which originally had Teflon-coated vanes. I'm not exactly sure when they switched to using ceramic vanes in all MCS's, but it might have been for the 2005 model year. I'm sure someone on NAM will know exactly when.

I took a look at the SC before my JCW kit was installed and got a chance to compare the two. The original MCS SC was a smooth, silver-ish Teflon coating. The JCW supercharger was a coarse, black coating. Very different. The ceramic apparently seals better for higher boost. That's the company line anyway.

 

Jake, check out post #13 on this thread: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=37023

 

teflon coatings are benificial inside superchargers,it protects the metal from corrosion & increases the airflow due to parasitic drag between the air & metal.they should have coated the inside of the housing also. the teflon coatings are typically .0005 thick. Ceramic coatings are also corrosion resistant to a certain degree, but their claim to fame is, heat barrior.It is also a thicker application allowing you to tighten up your clearances. Addressing parasitic drag is not as good as the teflon. I'm waiting for test results from a new paint/ceramic/teflon combo. We have coated a couple of twin screw rotors and are waiting for reassembly and dyno. The reason I like this combo is you have the ceramic thermal barrior(cooler charge),paint/ceramic thicker build for tighter tolerances(more boost),teflon for less drag & protection from galling if something abrasive makes it to the rotors.

 

Namwob,

Would you be able to tell us what type of heat coating you are using on the rotors if it is indeed a generic type please? I would have thought that something like Thermoguard here in the UK (used to coat exhaust and race headers etc) would be suitable no? Or maybe its application would close up the tolerances a little TOO much?

Please elaborate on your experiences when things become clearer as well so that you can add to the wealth of knowledge already built up on this great site

Cheers,

Henry

 

Henry, the paint /coating I'm interested in is not being mas marketed yet , probably doesn't have a proper name yet. The designer/blender approached Polymer Dynamics for certain ingredients & assistance doing some test panels. We did some rotors, as mentioned, which came out even & proper thickness for a good fit acording to the supercharger assembler. Really anything else about whats happening, or who is buying hundreds of gallons of it, is not for me to divulge. Ask Carl Benton (co-owner) of Polymer Dynamics
www.polydyn.com

 

Thanks for you input

That;s just the kind of answer I'm looking for.

cheers,

Henry

 

Too bad we don't have an 800# Carl will talk your ear off. I see more trick racing components come through this shop. I am not the other co-owner, in case it sounded that way.

 

Thanks Lincoln for the thread–I failed to notice it.

And cheers to wallismotorsport for the original post on the info. Thanks

This clears up a lot.

So can any of you guys tell me with the 15% pulley how long they're lasting?

I have 32,000 miles and I think I'm going with a 15. Aug 03 build with the "old style teflon supercharger" I doubt I'll ever make it to the autoX scene so I feel this will be a relatively "safe" mod. I'm going to play it conservative, because I put quite a few miles on the car to and from work. I have no mods now, the car is bone stock and solid with no problems to date.




wallismotorsport

1st Gear

*


Join Date: Oct 2003

Location: tampa fl.

Posts: 22







OK, after much research involing the parts pro's at our dealer here is what Ive found out.
As I stated before, as of july of 2004/ 05 production start, the new supercharger started bieng used, part #11 65 7 526 675. cost $2045.75
This new SC uses the same coating on the rotors found in the JCW SC.

The old SC has different rotors, part#11 65 1 476 790, and are not available new anymore, only reman, cost $1485.95.

The new SC is said to produce less heat and more boost and is the reason the 05's gained HP. There has been much talk about other factors in the HP gain like programing, this is not the case, we are using the same program to update all the MINIs as per campaign SIM 12-01-04 recall 04E-A01.

So in closing I would say the NEW 05 SC does increase output !

 

Has anyone had Teflon coating delaminate from their rotors? How would this affect the temperature?

 

Doesn't seem to be a cause for concern as teflon-coated metal withstands some pretty serious temps (just put a teflon-coated skillet on your stove and roast it!). Just don't clean your SC blades with a fork!

M

 

For whatever reason, mine's beginning to blow out chips of the Teflon and the intake temps risen substantially

 

They could be blocking the air passages and creating lots of boost or friction?? That would be very dangerous if it ended up in the head valves.

 

What!?!?!

Have you been running that nitrous? I spoke with a MINI tech who knows his stuff and got the old "they wouldn't put it in the car if it was going to be a problem" spiel. But WTF? Yours is chunking eh? Maybe one of the Eaton guys can tell you WTF is going on.

Dang, sorry to hear that. Best of luck getting it sorted...

Marty

 

The nitrous and water/alcohol injection has no affect on my SC as is is introduced down stream AFTER it If you weren't monitoring your AIT constantly as I do, you will not know that your SC is shedding it's coating as it hasn't affected the performance/boost...just added heat. Might be a good idea for all you guys who have 15% or greater pully installed to check your SC for teflon failure.

 

I don't think it was mentioned- _how_ do you identify the teflon coat? Could you take/do you have pictures of your SC where the teflon is coming off? I'm sure that would be a very informative and perhaps quite important addition to this thread. Thanks, Sid !

 

I don't have my SC off, yet The coating material is very distinct. It appears as small, specks of gray paint. I've found small amounts of this material varying from 1/16" to 1/4" in size and has uniform paint like thickness lodged at the entrance of the intercooler. It is slightly brittle and will crack in half if folded. There is nothing from the "clean" end of the AGS filter to the entrance of the intercooler that can remotely explain where this material is coming from. This strongly suggests that it must be the teflon coating. What I don't understand is the substantial temperature rise. Prior to this occurance, the intake temp held steady at 96 Fahrenheit at 75mph. Now it's at 120 F. AIT rises very quickly when accelerating and drops very quickly...approximately one degree per second. When stopped, the output plenum from the SC is hotter to the touch than before. I'm awaiting delivery of a pyrometer to get a reading.

 

I’ve seen flaking on the lobes of a very low mileage 04 SC (stock pulley) with the early light grey slippery coating and on the lobes of a low mileage 05 (stock pulley) with the new darker abrasive coating. The high mileage (40,000 of it with the 15% pulley) SC from my car had only a very little (tiny/spec) missing at the very extreme rear corner edges where you would expect some wear-in. So, this sloughing is not necessarily mileage or pulley overdriven dependant.