Drivetrain Official ALTA Q&A thread!
#102
I currently have the Alta 15% pulley with the stock oem belt. Works fine, no problems. Only about 11K miles with this set-up. Seriously considering the Alta +2% crank pulley but, would like to get a spare belt now. Am I correct that, with or with out the +2% crank pulley, the stock belt should be OK for both my current belt and the spare.
#104
What kind of NEW parts are people interested in seeing for the MCS? Suspension parts, engine parts, things that haven't been done yet?? Just wanting to get some input from the mini communtiy as to what people would like.
Alta Wish List-
1-(My personal pic)I for one want a user tuneable ECU, something like the Shark but programable.
Alta Wish List-
1-(My personal pic)I for one want a user tuneable ECU, something like the Shark but programable.
#105
Mostly right.....
Originally Posted by ALTA2
One last thing to help more people understand the vib dampeners. You ask anyone that designed the engine and ask them what frequency they have the problem at, they will tell you frequency X and RPM Y is where the engine has its "problem". They will even tell you that RPMS around this point don't have a problem so it is only tuned for that specific area. So the crank pulley has to be tuned for those exact areas or it is useless and adding unnecessary weight.
If something is lossy, it's dissapaiting energy. This energy dissapation can be tuned, or not, working at all frequencies. Sliding friction is like the latter. The fact that the dampening CAN happen at other frequencies but doesn't, because there's no enegy there, is just coicidental. there are lots of materials that have frequency dependant dampening (those ferrite beads on all the computer power cords are great examples, they don't effect the 60 Hz, but squish the high frequency from the computer, keeping it off the AC house lines), and it's the designers choice what type of dampening to use.
So just making a crank pulley with a urethane/rubber band doesn't necessarily get rid that particular frequency, or even at that particular RPM.
Compare our 1.1 pound pulley to the dampened 4.6 pound pulley. From the stock pulley (7.1 pounds), is there much to be gained by the 4.6 pounder??
ALTA difference 6 pounds, 85% difference
Other Dampener difference 2.5 pounds, 35% difference
ALTA difference 6 pounds, 85% difference
Other Dampener difference 2.5 pounds, 35% difference
On another note, since the crank pully is going at crank speed (duh!), it's energy is proportional to RPM, and that means you have to add more energy into it, as you shift through the gears. This means rotational mass removed here is "better" mass removal than anything after the transmission, like tires, wheels and brakes.
To be fair, yours will have a lower moment than the upcoming brand X lightened dampener, but as a lot of the mass is distributed closer to the crank axis, the relative benefit will be less than your estimate based on the wieght alone.
We don't have to make ours bigger to make a bigger difference in feel!
Matt
#106
Vapor Pressure
Originally Posted by sfjames2
Can I ask why I've never seen a trace of water, water/oil mix ANYWHERE along the intake path? On the other hand I've seen OIL coat everything from right below the TB to the Intake manifold.
Matt
#107
#108
How about a digital gear indicator like on rally cars. Wouldn't have to be quite as large as I've seen on many rally cars... Single digit LED display, .6" or better height, with the ability to control brightness for ambient light conditions. Probably tricky with a non-sequencial (sp?) gear box but, I'll bet it would sell.
Originally Posted by ALTA2
What kind of NEW parts are people interested in seeing for the MCS? Suspension parts, engine parts, things that haven't been done yet?? Just wanting to get some input from the mini communtiy as to what people would like.
Alta Wish List-
1-(My personal pic)I for one want a user tuneable ECU, something like the Shark but programable.
Alta Wish List-
1-(My personal pic)I for one want a user tuneable ECU, something like the Shark but programable.
#109
Jeff,
I'd like to see more suspension components to complement your fine rear control arms such as: mono-ball upper rear strut mounts, mono-ball rear trailing arm bushings, and mono-ball front compliance bushings, and mono-ball tie rod end links. I would also like to see Delrin inserts for the large end of the top and bottom engine stabilizer links as well as a stiffer substitute for the transmission mount.
Regards,
John Petrich in Seattle
I'd like to see more suspension components to complement your fine rear control arms such as: mono-ball upper rear strut mounts, mono-ball rear trailing arm bushings, and mono-ball front compliance bushings, and mono-ball tie rod end links. I would also like to see Delrin inserts for the large end of the top and bottom engine stabilizer links as well as a stiffer substitute for the transmission mount.
Regards,
John Petrich in Seattle
#110
Originally Posted by ALTA2
What kind of NEW parts are people interested in seeing for the MCS?
2. Instead of a gauge pod to attach to the speedo/rpm on the chrono pack, I'd like to see a replacement for the middle dash cluster with oil pressure, oil temp, engine temp, gas, and boost. Yeah, that'd be cool.
3. Wind splitter antenna (like on 2005+ Beemers and Audis).
4. A front grille (including the portion immediately below) that's different than the standard tuner "honeycomb", but still subtle. Maybe vertical vents?
5. LED-style tails (like on 2005+ Beemers, Infiniti, etc.)
6. A single-side exhaust with good torque.
7. What's the possibility of a ported/polished intake manifold w/larger bolt-on SC and complimentary FMIC as a package for a reasonable price?...
#111
Originally Posted by BelowRadar
3. Wind splitter antenna (like on 2005+ Beemers and Audis).
http://new.minimania.com/web/Item/NM.../InvDetail.cfm
#112
Greetings ALTA2,
I recently purchased your new 17% pulley, which i will get installed next week at Eric's (from Helix Motorsports) mechanic shop, and your lightened crank pulley all from ESE. So far i have your CAI which is excellent and I don't have no complaints about that. Eric told me that he would not recommend installing a lightened crank pulley. I would like you to shed a little light on this crank pulley situation. There are hardly any people that have this product installed on their minis. I want more information about this crank pulley product. Any comments, concerns, complaints and problems would be very helpful for me to make a good decision on installing this product.
Thanks
I recently purchased your new 17% pulley, which i will get installed next week at Eric's (from Helix Motorsports) mechanic shop, and your lightened crank pulley all from ESE. So far i have your CAI which is excellent and I don't have no complaints about that. Eric told me that he would not recommend installing a lightened crank pulley. I would like you to shed a little light on this crank pulley situation. There are hardly any people that have this product installed on their minis. I want more information about this crank pulley product. Any comments, concerns, complaints and problems would be very helpful for me to make a good decision on installing this product.
Thanks
#113
Originally Posted by Dr Obnxs
The temps and pressures are high and low enough repectively to vaporize the water. But not the oil. So you're left with a film of oil behind, and some puddling of it in the IC gaskets.
Matt
Matt
In the end, the engine combusting water vapors doesn't sound like a bad thing anyway.:smile: thanks again guys
James
#114
#115
Originally Posted by sfjames2
I just thought that if enough water vapor was passing thru the whole system, I'd see evidence like oil water mix sludge somewhere.
In the end, the engine combusting water vapors doesn't sound like a bad thing anyway.:smile: thanks again guys
James
In the end, the engine combusting water vapors doesn't sound like a bad thing anyway.:smile: thanks again guys
James
#116
Dr Obnxs,
"This isn't true. It's confusing resonance with dampening. The crank is just like a church bell, and has frequencies that it naturally "rings" at. You could think of this as frequecy tuned.
If something is lossy, it's dissapaiting energy. This energy dissapation can be tuned, or not, working at all frequencies. Sliding friction is like the latter. The fact that the dampening CAN happen at other frequencies but doesn't, because there's no enegy there, is just coicidental. there are lots of materials that have frequency dependant dampening (those ferrite beads on all the computer power cords are great examples, they don't effect the 60 Hz, but squish the high frequency from the computer, keeping it off the AC house lines), and it's the designers choice what type of dampening to use."
ANSWER
How is that not true? Isn't resonance(in some peoples mind) what is supposedly hurting the engine. And the Dampener/harmonic balancer/whatever you want to call it, is the part that gets rid of it? In laymans terms the engine produces these vibrations/frequencys/whatever you want to call it, and at a certain RPM the engine builder deams them dangerous. So they make a pulley to dampen those dangerous vibrations.
Your bell, try dinging it, what does it do when you touch it? That is what the pulley is doing, i understand that, but isn't there a rubber belt that is always touching it? Isn't this like your hand on the bell?
"While this is technically true, what it really means for items like these is that the dampening efficiency is a function of frequency. I'm not too sure, but I think for most of the frequncies in question, the rubber is lossy to some extent. But it will work better at some frequencies than others. While some materials do have absolute threshold behaviors, these elastomers aren't one of them."
ANSWER,
How is this not true? The engine designer/builder is one who said the mini produces a this bad resonance at 2000ish RPM, so we made a pulley tuned to that RPM/frequency. This same person is the one who told a persistant NAM member that they ran the mini engine with no dampener for 100K and saw/had no problems. Isn't that one statement enough for most people to get the idea that there isn't as much to worry about as people make it out to be??
"This is OK but incompete math. The energy put into the pully is in moving with the car (1/2 m V^2) and is proportional to the speed squared AND in rotational energy, which has the form 1/2 I w^2 ( I is called the moment of inertia, and w is the angular velocity). Contributions to I go as r^2, so the difference in moment is based on the mass distribution. It's even possible to design a rotating mass that is heavier that your pully, but requires LESS energy to drive."
ANSWER,
What i was trying to show is that the difference in weight from stock to ours was significant, and from stock to the other isn't. The percentages are just a simple stock/ours and stock/theirs. And the HP is just a rough guess. In some ways it is very correct. The fact that HP is Measure over time, and you would agree that the lighter part will allow the engine to spin up faster. The lighter part that gains HP by removing a significant amount of weight. That much heavier part is surely not going to gain as much HP. Just like a lighter flywheel is worth more WHP, and faster quarter mile times, the crank pulley does the same, just on a smaller scale.
Battle Cattle,
That is a good idea, the only problem is if you drive with your hands at 10 and 2 then it won't work. Trust me we would love if it would fit with the NAV cars and the new 05 with the gauges. If we can figure out a way to make it work with out any large comprimises, we will build it.
apexer,
Good idea, it can be done very easliy by tapping into speed and RPM. From there it can be calculated what gear the car is in. In fact the ECU may know what gear the car is in, but we just don't have a good enough tool to look at it. We really don't make electronic parts, we really try to stick to bending, machining, welding, and silicone. But this would be a great idea for someone that specializes in electronics. By the way, i am sure there is some Japanese company that makes this already, but who and were???
John,
Suspension is something we have been thinking of doing. You have suggested it to us a few times, and it has been on the back of our mind. At this point the thing people seem to really like is engine mounts. This is something to be on the look out for!
BelowRadar,
1.sounds good to me!
2.That is a good idea, but that thing has a bunch of electronics in it that needs to there. The car will not run if that is unplug (just something i have heard) Now on cars with dual clusters, and no nav, this would work.
3.We will most likely stick to our aluminum antenna, and leave the plastic ones to people that deal with plastic.
4.Same with the grill
5. tail lights are left to APC( American Products Company)
6.Done, ours has great tourqe, and on a 15% pulleyed car, there is no loss in low end power or tourqe. We will have some good dyno graphs soon to show. There are a few out there already from ours, but it is showing other parts installed with it. Either way with these mods there was no loss in power.
7. FMIC, that is right up our ally! The only way to really make it correctly is make it somewhat expensive, but for those who will be wanting the ultimate power with twincharged kit, this will be even better than using our TMIC.
Poderes1,
Ahh, the crank pulley debate. If you read some of the pages past in this thread, it is touched apon. There are a few other threads that have been started regarding this. I would suggest reading them to give you an idea if the crank pulley is for you.
The quick version is the crank pulley we make doesn't have a DAMPENER built into it. This is the main thing people are worried about how this effects engine life. One arguement is how resonace will cause the whole engine to blow up, the other is that the resonance doesn't hurt the engine enough to care.
My biggest thing is how this doesn't matter unless you are keeping your car forever. People argue all day about how the stock part is made of rubber to dampen the resonence from the crank, and the pistons firing. Well if you think about it, isn't there a belt that is driving a SC, ALT, AC pump, doens't this belt (being rubber) dampen things? Yes its like a bell you can ding, and have it resonate, but if there is a piece of rubber or your hand touching the bell, doesn't the sound stop???? This is just an argument that the resonace is something important to get rid of.
Basically there are 2 people that want this part. One is that guy who has all the mods possible and wants that extra edge of performance and feel. This person has the 15% pulley and most likely has voided his warranty, and in turn doens't care if the car doens't last 200k. The other person that is going to buy this part is the guy who want the benifit of the bigger size to add more boost.
The 3rd person that may want this part but is very worried about the whole harmonics thing is the person who should just stick with the stock part and change the SC pulley. This same person may be thinking about buying another pulley that is only slightly lighter than the existing part, cost a lot more and may not notice that much difference.
We are building a part that will make a noticable difference in how the car revs, and for a reasonable cost. We also are making this same part in a larger size to add more boost for even more power.
OK, that wasn't the short version, but its hard to stop sometimes.
John, again,
I saw this same thing on the lotus forums and it was something people really liked. That too is a good idea, and is some we can work on. If you had the choice, how thick would the part be to make HT better?
"This isn't true. It's confusing resonance with dampening. The crank is just like a church bell, and has frequencies that it naturally "rings" at. You could think of this as frequecy tuned.
If something is lossy, it's dissapaiting energy. This energy dissapation can be tuned, or not, working at all frequencies. Sliding friction is like the latter. The fact that the dampening CAN happen at other frequencies but doesn't, because there's no enegy there, is just coicidental. there are lots of materials that have frequency dependant dampening (those ferrite beads on all the computer power cords are great examples, they don't effect the 60 Hz, but squish the high frequency from the computer, keeping it off the AC house lines), and it's the designers choice what type of dampening to use."
ANSWER
How is that not true? Isn't resonance(in some peoples mind) what is supposedly hurting the engine. And the Dampener/harmonic balancer/whatever you want to call it, is the part that gets rid of it? In laymans terms the engine produces these vibrations/frequencys/whatever you want to call it, and at a certain RPM the engine builder deams them dangerous. So they make a pulley to dampen those dangerous vibrations.
Your bell, try dinging it, what does it do when you touch it? That is what the pulley is doing, i understand that, but isn't there a rubber belt that is always touching it? Isn't this like your hand on the bell?
"While this is technically true, what it really means for items like these is that the dampening efficiency is a function of frequency. I'm not too sure, but I think for most of the frequncies in question, the rubber is lossy to some extent. But it will work better at some frequencies than others. While some materials do have absolute threshold behaviors, these elastomers aren't one of them."
ANSWER,
How is this not true? The engine designer/builder is one who said the mini produces a this bad resonance at 2000ish RPM, so we made a pulley tuned to that RPM/frequency. This same person is the one who told a persistant NAM member that they ran the mini engine with no dampener for 100K and saw/had no problems. Isn't that one statement enough for most people to get the idea that there isn't as much to worry about as people make it out to be??
"This is OK but incompete math. The energy put into the pully is in moving with the car (1/2 m V^2) and is proportional to the speed squared AND in rotational energy, which has the form 1/2 I w^2 ( I is called the moment of inertia, and w is the angular velocity). Contributions to I go as r^2, so the difference in moment is based on the mass distribution. It's even possible to design a rotating mass that is heavier that your pully, but requires LESS energy to drive."
ANSWER,
What i was trying to show is that the difference in weight from stock to ours was significant, and from stock to the other isn't. The percentages are just a simple stock/ours and stock/theirs. And the HP is just a rough guess. In some ways it is very correct. The fact that HP is Measure over time, and you would agree that the lighter part will allow the engine to spin up faster. The lighter part that gains HP by removing a significant amount of weight. That much heavier part is surely not going to gain as much HP. Just like a lighter flywheel is worth more WHP, and faster quarter mile times, the crank pulley does the same, just on a smaller scale.
Battle Cattle,
That is a good idea, the only problem is if you drive with your hands at 10 and 2 then it won't work. Trust me we would love if it would fit with the NAV cars and the new 05 with the gauges. If we can figure out a way to make it work with out any large comprimises, we will build it.
apexer,
Good idea, it can be done very easliy by tapping into speed and RPM. From there it can be calculated what gear the car is in. In fact the ECU may know what gear the car is in, but we just don't have a good enough tool to look at it. We really don't make electronic parts, we really try to stick to bending, machining, welding, and silicone. But this would be a great idea for someone that specializes in electronics. By the way, i am sure there is some Japanese company that makes this already, but who and were???
John,
Suspension is something we have been thinking of doing. You have suggested it to us a few times, and it has been on the back of our mind. At this point the thing people seem to really like is engine mounts. This is something to be on the look out for!
BelowRadar,
1.sounds good to me!
2.That is a good idea, but that thing has a bunch of electronics in it that needs to there. The car will not run if that is unplug (just something i have heard) Now on cars with dual clusters, and no nav, this would work.
3.We will most likely stick to our aluminum antenna, and leave the plastic ones to people that deal with plastic.
4.Same with the grill
5. tail lights are left to APC( American Products Company)
6.Done, ours has great tourqe, and on a 15% pulleyed car, there is no loss in low end power or tourqe. We will have some good dyno graphs soon to show. There are a few out there already from ours, but it is showing other parts installed with it. Either way with these mods there was no loss in power.
7. FMIC, that is right up our ally! The only way to really make it correctly is make it somewhat expensive, but for those who will be wanting the ultimate power with twincharged kit, this will be even better than using our TMIC.
Poderes1,
Ahh, the crank pulley debate. If you read some of the pages past in this thread, it is touched apon. There are a few other threads that have been started regarding this. I would suggest reading them to give you an idea if the crank pulley is for you.
The quick version is the crank pulley we make doesn't have a DAMPENER built into it. This is the main thing people are worried about how this effects engine life. One arguement is how resonace will cause the whole engine to blow up, the other is that the resonance doesn't hurt the engine enough to care.
My biggest thing is how this doesn't matter unless you are keeping your car forever. People argue all day about how the stock part is made of rubber to dampen the resonence from the crank, and the pistons firing. Well if you think about it, isn't there a belt that is driving a SC, ALT, AC pump, doens't this belt (being rubber) dampen things? Yes its like a bell you can ding, and have it resonate, but if there is a piece of rubber or your hand touching the bell, doesn't the sound stop???? This is just an argument that the resonace is something important to get rid of.
Basically there are 2 people that want this part. One is that guy who has all the mods possible and wants that extra edge of performance and feel. This person has the 15% pulley and most likely has voided his warranty, and in turn doens't care if the car doens't last 200k. The other person that is going to buy this part is the guy who want the benifit of the bigger size to add more boost.
The 3rd person that may want this part but is very worried about the whole harmonics thing is the person who should just stick with the stock part and change the SC pulley. This same person may be thinking about buying another pulley that is only slightly lighter than the existing part, cost a lot more and may not notice that much difference.
We are building a part that will make a noticable difference in how the car revs, and for a reasonable cost. We also are making this same part in a larger size to add more boost for even more power.
OK, that wasn't the short version, but its hard to stop sometimes.
John, again,
I saw this same thing on the lotus forums and it was something people really liked. That too is a good idea, and is some we can work on. If you had the choice, how thick would the part be to make HT better?
#117
ALTA2 what belt do you supply with your 19% pulley?
Future part development: How about a new super charger pulley kit which comes with crank/alternator pulleys and converts it to a Gilmer type belt with cross teeth instead of the current system which is having belt slip issues on the smaller 19%. Would this be possible
Future part development: How about a new super charger pulley kit which comes with crank/alternator pulleys and converts it to a Gilmer type belt with cross teeth instead of the current system which is having belt slip issues on the smaller 19%. Would this be possible
#120
#122
Things I would currently buy:
1) user tuneable ECU
2) user tuneable ECU
3) user tuneable ECU
4) direct fit steering hub for aftermarket wheels
5) an oil cooler adapter plate that doesn't cost an arm and a leg (like the Madness one) - can attach at the factory oil cooler, or replace the factory oil filter housing.
6) the option to buy the Alta shifter without the ****. I hate metal ***** and it seems pointless to be forced to buy something I won't use.
1) user tuneable ECU
2) user tuneable ECU
3) user tuneable ECU
4) direct fit steering hub for aftermarket wheels
5) an oil cooler adapter plate that doesn't cost an arm and a leg (like the Madness one) - can attach at the factory oil cooler, or replace the factory oil filter housing.
6) the option to buy the Alta shifter without the ****. I hate metal ***** and it seems pointless to be forced to buy something I won't use.
#123
Originally Posted by ALTA2
What kind of NEW parts are people interested in seeing for the MCS? Suspension parts, engine parts, things that haven't been done yet?? Just wanting to get some input from the mini communtiy as to what people would like.
Alta Wish List-
1-(My personal pic)I for one want a user tuneable ECU, something like the Shark but programable.
Alta Wish List-
1-(My personal pic)I for one want a user tuneable ECU, something like the Shark but programable.
#124
Lots' be clear.....
Originally Posted by Alta2
ANSWER
How is that not true? Isn't resonance(in some peoples mind) what is supposedly hurting the engine.
How is that not true? Isn't resonance(in some peoples mind) what is supposedly hurting the engine.
And the Dampener/harmonic balancer/whatever you want to call it, is the part that gets rid of it?
Originally Posted by Alta2
In laymans terms the engine produces these vibrations/frequencys/whatever you want to call it, and at a certain RPM the engine builder deams them dangerous. So they make a pulley to dampen those dangerous vibrations.
Originally Posted by Alta2
Your bell, try dinging it, what does it do when you touch it? That is what the pulley is doing, i understand that, but isn't there a rubber belt that is always touching it? Isn't this like your hand on the bell?
Originally Posted by Alta2
ANSWER,
How is this not true? The engine designer/builder is one who said the mini produces a this bad resonance at 2000ish RPM, so we made a pulley tuned to that RPM/frequency.
Originally Posted by Alta2
This same person is the one who told a persistant NAM member that they ran the mini engine with no dampener for 100K and saw/had no problems. Isn't that one statement enough for most people to get the idea that there isn't as much to worry about as people make it out to be??
Originally Posted by Alta2
ANSWER,
What i was trying to show is that the difference in weight from stock to ours was significant, and from stock to the other isn't. The percentages are just a simple stock/ours and stock/theirs.
What i was trying to show is that the difference in weight from stock to ours was significant, and from stock to the other isn't. The percentages are just a simple stock/ours and stock/theirs.
Originally Posted by Alta2
And the HP is just a rough guess. In some ways it is very correct. The fact that HP is Measure over time, and you would agree that the lighter part will allow the engine to spin up faster. The lighter part that gains HP by removing a significant amount of weight. That much heavier part is surely not going to gain as much HP. Just like a lighter flywheel is worth more WHP, and faster quarter mile times, the crank pulley does the same, just on a smaller scale.
The point of my poist wasn't to claim the answer in the dampener vs no dampener debate. I honestly don't know. I'm just trying to keep the details accurate.
Matt
#125
Originally Posted by ALTA2
2.That is a good idea, but that thing has a bunch of electronics in it that needs to there. The car will not run if that is unplug (just something i have heard) Now on cars with dual clusters, and no nav, this would work.
Originally Posted by ALTA2
5. tail lights are left to APC( American Products Company)
Originally Posted by ALTA2
6.Done, ours has great tourqe, and on a 15% pulleyed car, there is no loss in low end power or tourqe. We will have some good dyno graphs soon to show. There are a few out there already from ours, but it is showing other parts installed with it. Either way with these mods there was no loss in power.
Originally Posted by ALTA2
7. FMIC, that is right up our ally! The only way to really make it correctly is make it somewhat expensive, but for those who will be wanting the ultimate power with twincharged kit, this will be even better than using our TMIC.