Drivetrain WOT modded hesitiation - NOT stumble, yo-yo, etc...
#27
09-14-2005, 08:37 AM
Originally Posted by supercoopers
All I can relate are my direct experiences with the VGS mod. It was carried out by me and a tuner here in the UK. Following the installation, we noticed that under hood temperatures were higher following just the inclusion of the VGS mod (no we didn't stick probes in there, but both inlet and outlet sides of the intercooler snoots were untouchable after a 10 mile run). This was in 28degree Celcius weather. Within 100 hard miles of installing the mod, the charger packed up after a run where I was trying to get the ECU to adapt following a reset (i.e. I was driving it hard so it didn't learn to be a pansie 
).
Cheers,
Henry
).Cheers,
Henry
Sid
#28
10-14-2005, 02:08 PM
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i've got a lot of work to do......
here's the offcial update:
everything i have stated originally that i would modify / upgrade has been completed, including a brand new out of the box bypass valve.... i have got everything up and running---if you dare call it that.... here are my symptoms:
here's the offcial update:
everything i have stated originally that i would modify / upgrade has been completed, including a brand new out of the box bypass valve.... i have got everything up and running---if you dare call it that.... here are my symptoms:
- AFC reads no throttle percentage values
- erratic idle
- no boost / vacuum, car idles at 0 psi
- no fluid leaks, 440 injectors hold with modification to the intake manifold without leaking, no coolant leaks either
- car warms up and does not SMELL like its running too rich as it is
- no physical signs of running lean - one time the car ran lean in idle, the headers lit up like red glowsticks!!
- no irregular sounds other than the AGS, no boost leaks noticed, intercooler almost doesn't need clamps because of the new intercooler boots - they are SO tight we had to lube them just to fit them on with screwdrivers on either end!!!
- P1688 / 5768 - Electronic throttle control monitor level 2/3 mass air flow calculation
- P1229 / 4649 - Throttle sensor adaptation failure
- P0222 / 546 - Throttle / pedal position sensor / switch 'B' circuit low
- P0107 / 263 - Manifold absolute pressure / barometric pressure circuit low input
#29
10-18-2005, 08:11 AM
I think I will have to agree with supercoopers. I did my VGS sometime ago and I took it for a drive later at night. First, I noticed my Alta Cai is not screaming like it used to and second, my accelerations through out the gears are pretty slower than before. There's no 'kick' anymore...
Other than that, I feel that the intercooler elbow is very hot! I cant even touch it like before. I compared mine with my friend's who has the 15% pulley and MTH, his is much cooler.
I think I'm going to remove the VGS in these days.. I want back my alta scream and the kick.....
supercoopers, did you remove/undo your VGS? Any difference?
Other than that, I feel that the intercooler elbow is very hot! I cant even touch it like before. I compared mine with my friend's who has the 15% pulley and MTH, his is much cooler.
I think I'm going to remove the VGS in these days.. I want back my alta scream and the kick.....
supercoopers, did you remove/undo your VGS? Any difference?
#30
10-18-2005, 08:25 AM
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hey there, I got two of the codes that you are getting when I removed the AGS from my car. Turned out that the pins on the wiring harness extension stretched out the contacts inside the stock TB harness causing a bad connection. The pins on the TB are FLAT, the pins on the extension are ROUND. I've since reshaped the harness so I wouldn't have to leave the extension in there and have had no problems since. Hope you get it all figured out.
#31
10-18-2005, 06:22 PM
did u say u reshaped the pins on the harness?
Originally Posted by sfjames2
hey there, I got two of the codes that you are getting when I removed the AGS from my car. Turned out that the pins on the wiring harness extension stretched out the contacts inside the stock TB harness causing a bad connection. The pins on the TB are FLAT, the pins on the extension are ROUND. I've since reshaped the harness so I wouldn't have to leave the extension in there and have had no problems since. Hope you get it all figured out.
#32
10-18-2005, 07:00 PM
kick ***!
minispeed head's!?!? NiCE touch.....i bet it jus sounds incredible, how long have u run the M7 flywheel & clutch kit?
Originally Posted by supercoopers
Tuls,
Unfortunately I didn't power test individual components because I was rushed into installing the head and replacement supercharger before I had anticipated, follwing the death of my old supercharger.
I will say however that the head has improved torque very noticably, along with mid-top end power. I do feel thought that some of that is also thanks to the M7 charger. Before all the mods, my car was at 206bhp crank (184WHP) and 180lb/ft at the crank. I will be back off to the same dyno shop when I have the time, but at the moment I am sorting out a belt slip issue, which is I think due to having a little oil on the belt...argh, the joys of modding!
The head was from long-time MINI tuners Minispeed here in the UK. It took 10 days to port and is actually a real nice piece of work. The same head in their phase 5 conversion yields roughly 230whp, so it can't be bad really
So yeah, a big thumbs up from me on the head. Plus, with the cam and Flywheel installed, the car sounds like a complete beast, even just sat at the lights
Cheers,
Henry
Unfortunately I didn't power test individual components because I was rushed into installing the head and replacement supercharger before I had anticipated, follwing the death of my old supercharger.
I will say however that the head has improved torque very noticably, along with mid-top end power. I do feel thought that some of that is also thanks to the M7 charger. Before all the mods, my car was at 206bhp crank (184WHP) and 180lb/ft at the crank. I will be back off to the same dyno shop when I have the time, but at the moment I am sorting out a belt slip issue, which is I think due to having a little oil on the belt...argh, the joys of modding!
The head was from long-time MINI tuners Minispeed here in the UK. It took 10 days to port and is actually a real nice piece of work. The same head in their phase 5 conversion yields roughly 230whp, so it can't be bad really
So yeah, a big thumbs up from me on the head. Plus, with the cam and Flywheel installed, the car sounds like a complete beast, even just sat at the lights
Cheers,
Henry
#33
10-18-2005, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by sfjames2
hey there, I got two of the codes that you are getting when I removed the AGS from my car. Turned out that the pins on the wiring harness extension stretched out the contacts inside the stock TB harness causing a bad connection. The pins on the TB are FLAT, the pins on the extension are ROUND. I've since reshaped the harness so I wouldn't have to leave the extension in there and have had no problems since. Hope you get it all figured out.
#34
10-19-2005, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by joker
did u say u reshaped the pins on the harness?
Sorry guys, I didn't bend the pins, I worked on the STOCK harness itself. Stuck a needle in and bent the little tabs down a bit. I just made sure not to bend them to much so that I'd have to force the plug to connect with the TB. You'll notice they are stretched when you look at em in the harness. Get a mirror and take a look at the pins on the TB, they are very small, easy to imagine a bad connection happening.
#35
10-19-2005, 11:04 AM
Originally Posted by sfjames2
yup, I took a needle and bent the contacts to where I thought they should be. I still carry the harness just in case, but so far all is well.
Sorry guys, I didn't bend the pins, I worked on the STOCK harness itself. Stuck a needle in and bent the little tabs down a bit. I just made sure not to bend them to much so that I'd have to force the plug to connect with the TB. You'll notice they are stretched when you look at em in the harness. Get a mirror and take a look at the pins on the TB, they are very small, easy to imagine a bad connection happening.
Sorry guys, I didn't bend the pins, I worked on the STOCK harness itself. Stuck a needle in and bent the little tabs down a bit. I just made sure not to bend them to much so that I'd have to force the plug to connect with the TB. You'll notice they are stretched when you look at em in the harness. Get a mirror and take a look at the pins on the TB, they are very small, easy to imagine a bad connection happening.
#36
10-19-2005, 11:51 AM
6th Gear
Wow! So, in addition to irreversably cutting the radiator hose to insert an extension, you need to damage your stock throttle body wiring harness in order to fit an extension. All to install an intake that is dyno proven to make less power than one that costs less, is completely reversible, and is installed in a fraction of the time. 
Originally Posted by sfjames2
hey there, I got two of the codes that you are getting when I removed the AGS from my car. Turned out that the pins on the wiring harness extension stretched out the contacts inside the stock TB harness causing a bad connection. The pins on the TB are FLAT, the pins on the extension are ROUND. I've since reshaped the harness so I wouldn't have to leave the extension in there and have had no problems since. Hope you get it all figured out.
#37
10-19-2005, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Detonics
I think I will have to agree with supercoopers. I did my VGS sometime ago and I took it for a drive later at night. First, I noticed my Alta Cai is not screaming like it used to and second, my accelerations through out the gears are pretty slower than before. There's no 'kick' anymore...
Other than that, I feel that the intercooler elbow is very hot! I cant even touch it like before. I compared mine with my friend's who has the 15% pulley and MTH, his is much cooler.
I think I'm going to remove the VGS in these days.. I want back my alta scream and the kick.....
supercoopers, did you remove/undo your VGS? Any difference?
Other than that, I feel that the intercooler elbow is very hot! I cant even touch it like before. I compared mine with my friend's who has the 15% pulley and MTH, his is much cooler.
I think I'm going to remove the VGS in these days.. I want back my alta scream and the kick.....
supercoopers, did you remove/undo your VGS? Any difference?
I removed the VGS and the high under-bonnet temps went away. I don't wish to sling mud anywhere, just answering questions directed at me and my experience.
Henry
#38
10-19-2005, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by joker
minispeed head's!?!? NiCE touch.....i bet it jus sounds incredible, how long have u run the M7 flywheel & clutch kit?
In answer to your question, I have been running the M7 clutch and Flywheel for over 5 months now and I am still loving it
Great pickup and throttle response as well :smile: Cheers,
Henry
#39
10-19-2005, 12:22 PM
6th Gear
That makes sense. If you are driving in conditions where the bypass would be open in stock configuration, but where the byass would be closed with the VGS, then the air coming out of the supercharger will be hotter with the VGS.
Ryephile's your testing showed the bypass closing at 1 inHg (965 mbar absolute) and opening at 15 inHg (491 mbar absolute) in its stock configuration. Since the downstream MAP (manifold pressure) tends to average about 150 mbar higher than the upstream MAP (pressure in the connecting pipe between the throttle body and the supercharger) in daily driving, it stands to reason that the bypass is closed more often with the VGS than it is stock.
Of course, when you let off the gas completely, the VGS configuration will let the bypass open completely just like stock and when you floor the gas completely, the VGS configuration will let the bypass close completely just like stock.
Ryephile's your testing showed the bypass closing at 1 inHg (965 mbar absolute) and opening at 15 inHg (491 mbar absolute) in its stock configuration. Since the downstream MAP (manifold pressure) tends to average about 150 mbar higher than the upstream MAP (pressure in the connecting pipe between the throttle body and the supercharger) in daily driving, it stands to reason that the bypass is closed more often with the VGS than it is stock.
Of course, when you let off the gas completely, the VGS configuration will let the bypass open completely just like stock and when you floor the gas completely, the VGS configuration will let the bypass close completely just like stock.
Originally Posted by supercoopers
Hey Detonics,
I removed the VGS and the high under-bonnet temps went away. I don't wish to sling mud anywhere, just answering questions directed at me and my experience.
Henry
I removed the VGS and the high under-bonnet temps went away. I don't wish to sling mud anywhere, just answering questions directed at me and my experience.
Henry
#40
10-19-2005, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by andy@ross-tech.com
Wow! So, in addition to irreversably cutting the radiator hose to insert an extension, you need to damage your stock throttle body wiring harness in order to fit an extension. All to install an intake that is dyno proven to make less power than one that costs less, is completely reversible, and is installed in a fraction of the time.
dude....for me, it was all worth the shot.
#41
10-19-2005, 01:47 PM
#42
10-19-2005, 01:50 PM
6th Gear
#43
10-19-2005, 02:01 PM
oh!!!! this is good (
#45
10-19-2005, 02:11 PM
6th Gear
#46
10-19-2005, 02:21 PM
#47
10-20-2005, 09:54 AM
I just got the VGS removed this evening and the drive back home was pleasant. I got back my Alta sound and at the same time the power is back. I can feel the acceleration now,much better now where the car really go when I floor. I got the wheel spin at second gear...I guess it means the power is in?
#48
10-20-2005, 10:25 AM
I'm trying to understand what the purpose of VGS is. In your case, it took power away and created excess heat
Originally Posted by Detonics
I just got the VGS removed this evening and the drive back home was pleasant. I got back my Alta sound and at the same time the power is back. I can feel the acceleration now,much better now where the car really go when I floor. I got the wheel spin at second gear...I guess it means the power is in?
#49
10-20-2005, 11:11 AM
6th Gear
Read through the thread on the subject and I think you may understand the idea behind the VGS. I have no idea why Detonics' car had a loss of power, but that's why it's good that the VGS is:
A) Completely and easily reversible
B) Free
A) Completely and easily reversible
B) Free
Originally Posted by MSFITOY
I'm trying to understand what the purpose of VGS is. In your case, it took power away and created excess heat
#50
10-20-2005, 11:18 AM
Please bare in mind that I'm not going against the Idea of VGS, Plus our Andy here has done lots of findings and he is brilliant. I'm sure my car settings might be differ than others so this VGS might not be suitable. I do feel that the intercooler elbow is hotter than before and I just don't really understand why. Not all MINIs are the same....
Andy, thanks for all the great works of yours. Too bad the VGS doesnt work best for me. I still have the one ball tho.
Andy, thanks for all the great works of yours.
Too bad the VGS doesnt work best for me. I still have the one ball tho.