ugh, i really didn't want to have to do this, but here goes.... sorry if this gets long, trying to be as descriptive as possible!

a few months ago before we headed out for the dragon i started to notice a few problems and hesitations with the car.... it was as if i had to ease onto the gas pedal because it would throw me forward in the seat if i stomped on it - something had never happened before, except one time i didn't have the oil catch can closed, so the crankcase breather tube was not sealed, sending the car into limp home mode.... currently the car has the oil catch bypassed running the stock breather hose

i haven't been able to trace the problem back to one exact point just yet, and no one at two dealerships can figure it out.... you can see what i have done from my mods list, and one of the last things i can assume it would be is the injectors.... when i was bringing the car to the dyno, the thing shut off because it was running too much fuel with the 440's not being leaned out!

the runs and drives just fine unless you punch it, and depending on how hard it is nailed without releasing it, it can send the car back into limp home mode.... one of the things that eric at helix thought it might be is the fact that i am certain i have a defective bypass (butterfly) valve - for some reason a few months after having the 19% pulley installed, the car would not build 19% pulley-worthy boost, and after having time to check it out, i realized it was only building stock pulley-worthy boost, the quick fix was to do the zip-tie mod and instantly the car snapped back to life after not being able to figure out the issue for about a month....

i have an 03 and have been told the 02's had the problem with the defective bypass valves, not the 03's.... the dealership said they would switch it out no problem, but don't believe that this is causing the problem with the WOT hesitation.... i'm sure it something simple i haven't played with enough to figure it out, but with 2 dealerships checking the car out and saying the same thing, "sorry, we can't figure out what's wrong with it, why don't you try having _________ check it out, maybe they can help you" and referring me to a tuner shop - great, thanks, i owned my own shop for 3 years, i work at a new one, no one knows anything about these cars and apparently not even the dealership......

here's what i am doing within the next month in an attempt to figure out what is causing this problem as well as doing some preventative (and fun!) mods:

• installing AGS instead of stupid hacked up stock parts intake, fun, but possibly causing a leak prior to the throttle body
• installing oversized top mount intercooler, had problems with the mounts for the stock one which caused problems with the boots sealing and having a pressure loss in the system
• installing M7 62mm throttle body
• installing M7 180deg. thermostat
• possibly doing plugs, wires, and distributor cap ahead of schedule in case this is absolutely necessary to resolve situation
• anything else necessary to upgrade that NEEDS it right now?

anyways, that's the situation, anyone have any suggestions or recommendations for me? i have my car at work as we are doing the stereo system install i have been promising everyone for the longest time (including myself....), but having a modded out stereo system does nothing if i can't get the car running straight! thanks in advance....

EDIT - forgot to mention, currently i have a representative of the 2nd MINI dealership playing around with my A'PEXi AFC Select in order to fix this issue.... he is using the "play around with a few numbers, drive it up the road, see how it feels, play with a few more numbers until i get it corrected" method of resolving this issue (aka, the BUTT dyno), and i could just about kill him for doing this.... so if your thoughts include the aforementioned resolution, please feel free to NOT tell me that.... the car was tuned on the dyno with AFR staying quite rich, and i believe he only made the car even more rich judging from his settings, but not too sure.... can NEVER be sure after hearing someone tell you that's how they're trying to fix your car....

 

I put in the 440s and it killed the car. I called Peter (M7)and he is sending me 400s. I can control the 440s but I noticed that a lot of other cars with similar mods are doing well with 400s including Randy Webb's mule.

I just don't want to fool around. The car is running smooth as long as I don't go to WOT.

I also ordered WMS intake manifold and I will install that and then do another custom Unichip tune.

 

Hi FLT,


My guess is that you have a leaky intercooler boot or a small leak just upstream of the supercharger. I had the same problem as you just before my supercharger blew, although the symptons were mutually exclusive of the outcome, so don't worry on that front.

Basically, the car ran fine until I tried to go to WOT when it would throw the car into limp home mode. It had never done this prior to my drivetrain install when the intake system etc was taken out and not installed thoroughly. This resulted in a slight leak at the intercooler snoots that caused the aforementioned problem. The code I was pulling from the car was for a faulty throttle body, which of course was completely unrelated, further emphasising how sensitive our cars are to small vacuum leaks and what a pain it is to diagnose some problems correctly...

Anyway, if I were you I would find out what codes your car are putting out. Also, GET THAT BYPASS VALVE REPLACED, but before reassembly, just make sure it closes completely. I wouldn't mess about with tying it shut all the time, beefing up the spring or doing the VGS mod which seems to keep the supercharger in action more than it would with the mod absent. This can run the charger much hotter in my experience (expensive mistake following a it's failure!).

At the end of the day it could be the injectors as well, but given that I had a similar experience to you when running the standard injectors and seeing as you have just played around in the intake area, I would put money on the problem being as trivial as a small leak. It can be a pain to find that leak though!

good luck and please let us know how you get on!

Cheers,

Henry

 

please elaborate on this

 

All I can relate are my direct experiences with the VGS mod. It was carried out by me and a tuner here in the UK. Following the installation, we noticed that under hood temperatures were higher following just the inclusion of the VGS mod (no we didn't stick probes in there, but both inlet and outlet sides of the intercooler snoots were untouchable after a 10 mile run). This was in 28degree Celcius weather. Within 100 hard miles of installing the mod, the charger packed up after a run where I was trying to get the ECU to adapt following a reset (i.e. I was driving it hard so it didn't learn to be a pansie ).

On disassembly of the charger and following consultation with an Eaton technician who lives in Stoke, UK, he hinted that the failure was most likely due to overheating within the charger itself. Besides, I was running a 18% on the charger at the time and had been for over 10K miles, no track use, so it did seem strange that the charger packed up so soon after doing the VGS mod and observing what I have outlined above...The redline was set at factory 6,950rpm or so (I use MTH).

Anyway, I was told that the oil within the bearing area of the charger is heat-sensitive, much like that caliper paint you can get that shows which part of the rotor is up to temperature etc. Brembo were field testing this paint last time I checked in with them.
Anyone who has intimately dismantled the M45 charger will tell you that there is a blue supercharger oil held in the shaft end. Immediately in the bearing compartment, however, there is another compartment housing a tiny fraction more of said oil. In the case of my failed charger, the oil had turned from a clear blue to a dark stodgy blue, indicating that it had overheated, which in turn caused the bearing to fail. The rotors then had a little lateral play and they narrowly 'kissed' the inside of the chamber causing pretty bad rotor damage as you can imagine.

There you have it, a little elaboration and not much speculation given that I have lived and worked through a problem of this kind first hand.

Cheers,

Henry

 

cheers Henry thanks for that,
I've raised this question with Andy on the VGS thread,
maybe you should post this reply over there as well?

 

Henry,

Thank you for the input.... I had always assumed it was a problem with some type of vacuum leak, which is why I need to get the new TMIC and intake with throttle body to ensure there are no leaks in the system before automatically assuming it is the injectors.... i would prefer to keep them if at all possible, but if everything is said and done, all leaks are guaranteed to be stopped up, and it still runs like this, they're gone and i'm switching to 400's!!! also, i have produced the same code relating to the TB, which leads me to believe you are correct....

thanks again, will keep you posted on the outcome - does anyone have any conflicting evidence or points to bring up?

 

I would, but I wouldn't want to rain on a 235 post parade with the first hint of negativity, especially given the vitriolic nature of a few posters on here

My reply was to your original question, and I don't feel that my experience will be welcome much on a thread that is mainly talking people through how to do the mod and how it affects fuel consumption .

Plus I was too busy at the time and therefore lack exhaustive temperature reading data, so my findings will mean less than a 1/4 cent anyway

Cheers,

Henry

 

Please do FLT. I hope you get it sorted soon; I too know how bloomin' annoying it can be to figure out a problem and work around it in a logical manner.

My money is still on a vacuum leak though...I take paypal transactions thanks

Cheers,

Henry

 

The 440s are not too big...when dialed in properly they will function just fine...I know of a few guys runing 440s

Sounds to me like you may have a vacume leak or the wiring harness may be bad...maybe somethign as simple as the plugs too..have you check them?

Also, Althought I LOVE my dealer...I have a special deal with them...they can do services..OIL, filter...stuff like that...but they are NOT alow to touch the software in my car....upload the new stuff....and DEFFINETLY not allow to touch ANY of the components in the car...especially an AFC

 

Running the SC under boost at low RPM doesn't add much load. I'd bet that your wear was happeing before, and it got critical at about the time you did the bypass stuff. No one else has said anyting about SC heat, and there's no possible explanation (you can look at the air temp vs boost level graphs on the eaton site to confirm this) can lead it sever heat issues with the BP valve close at lower RPM. In fact, when it's open, warmer air is introduced back into the pre-SC side of the intake....
Also, an 18% pully enhancement can spin the SC past is designed red-line at the motor's red-line, not by much, but by a bit.

The top one is Engine Red-Line for various pully combos, the second one is how fast the SC spins at 7000 RPM motor speeds.

This is why I think your SC became toast. The bypass valve mod seemed to just come around at the wrong time....

Matt

 

MAtt,

That is a possibility. The car was running super hot though IMMEDIATELY after adding the VGS, no other mods. The technician wanted to take it off there and then with concern that my engine would simply die. He wasn't far wrong! I feel it was more than just coicidence, but hey, that's only my take on the situation. Only MiniMania UK can vouch for this finding as well.

Also, I now mainly change up at 6-6.5K and have done since changing from the BBR conversion 10K miles ago. I used to thrash that car with no probs! Also, no track days on the charger that died.
The charger was also new 10K ago when I changed to a GTT package instead. Now the car has bits from everywhere, as can been seen in my sig.

Cheers,

Henry

 

New sig should be up now


Henry

 

hey Super, how much power did you get from the P&P was it your own head or did you buy one? it's next on my list

thanks

 

Don't replace the distributor cap, for there isn't one. Any leaks prior to the throttle body are not relevant except for injesting dirt. Wait untill you install the AGS & throttle body before doing extensive vacuum leak tests or throwing more parts at it hoping for a rock -paper-scissors fix.

 

Based on avoiding a rock, paper, scissors fix...I would think you would have sugested NO MORE MODs till you get what you currently have working prolperly...I mean adding something else to the mix seems silly to me...although I am very peticular when I am workin on engines and try to break it down into "stages"

and I say he replace the distributor cap

 

Tuls,

Unfortunately I didn't power test individual components because I was rushed into installing the head and replacement supercharger before I had anticipated, follwing the death of my old supercharger.

I will say however that the head has improved torque very noticably, along with mid-top end power. I do feel thought that some of that is also thanks to the M7 charger. Before all the mods, my car was at 206bhp crank (184WHP) and 180lb/ft at the crank. I will be back off to the same dyno shop when I have the time, but at the moment I am sorting out a belt slip issue, which is I think due to having a little oil on the belt...argh, the joys of modding!

The head was from long-time MINI tuners Minispeed here in the UK. It took 10 days to port and is actually a real nice piece of work. The same head in their phase 5 conversion yields roughly 230whp, so it can't be bad really

So yeah, a big thumbs up from me on the head. Plus, with the cam and Flywheel installed, the car sounds like a complete beast, even just sat at the lights

Cheers,

Henry

 

correction, COIL PACK.... same thing in my book....

http://www.mossmini.com/Shop/ViewPro...eIndexID=41528

 

Based on avoiding a rock, paper, scissors fix...I would think you would have sugested NO MORE MODs till you get what you currently have working prolperly...I mean adding something else to the mix seems silly to me...although I am very peticular when I am workin on engines and try to break it down into "stages"

Tuls I'd normally agree but my suspicions relate to just the items it would replace & he's going to be doing it anyway, I'm assuming. Hmmm, don't do rock-paper scissors but instead do rock-paper- scissors...

 

Namwob is right,


Don't throw any new parts into the mix, unless you replace that funky BPV as that is a known problem as well. the coil pack should be fine. I remember having exactly the same thought passage as you when I was diagnosing my problem.

In thinking about my/your problem more, the likely source of the leak is at the intercooler boots. What I was also finding with the VGS mod was that the boots were being pulled inwards off of the snoots, most likely when letting off from the gas (never had this 'trait' before either), so I had to do some modding to the intercooler snoots (I also took off the VGS). As they were coming off anyway, I decided to take some rough grade emery paper and sand down the polished edges of the snoot so that they were bumpy to the touch. I used a Stanley knife to add some more grooves for good measure. Then I thoroughly cleaned everything in a sink with some anti-grease agent (DON'T ATTEMPT TO DO THIS ON THE CAR...YOU DON'T WANT ANY METAL FLAKES GETTING DOWN INTO THE SC!)

I then removed the rubber intercooler boots and thoroughly coated them in a brake-cleaner type foam and then washed thoroughly a few times.

I also have had the clamps modified that hold the intercooler in place. Their entails removing about 1/4" of the male-female ends either side so that when the two are clamped together, both ends of the clamp actually lock tight and won't move (there was daylight visible when everything was 'tight' on mine, so this mod was useful...you will see if yours needs it by looking at it while in situ, and therefore know how much to cut away using a grinder or haksaw if your accurate).

Also, tighten the clamps down in an ordered fashion, i.e. 5 turns to tighten on side closest to you, 5 turns to tighten on the screw closest to the bulkhead etc. Don;t just tighten one side fully and then do the other side because you won't get a good seal. The clamps on my car won't even move a mm now they on that tight!

Don't panic, backtrack methodically and work on the basis that this is most likely a vacuum leak issue. Have you also got the VGS mod by any chance?

Cheers,

Henry

 

Great!! thanks for the reply!!

 

right on...well rock beats scissors anyway

 

Fast Lane Tuning,


How's the diagnostic process going? Any updates/new leads?

Cheers,

Henry

 

 

hey all,

just wanted to give an update as I have had NO time to be able to post about this situation on here yet.... here goes!

I think I have determined the problem regarding the hesitation, but I have not reassembled everything and started up the car yet to find out if it has been a success. The problems I have identified have been:

• Weak, loose intercooler boots that although the clamps have been tightened properly and as much as possible, the boots have been removed and installed enough times that they are not good anymore. Awaiting delivery on new aftermarket intercooler boots.
• Incorrectly seated injectors. While breaking the car down to the supercharger, I noticed a stain on the intake manifold on the no. 4 cylinder. Upon examining it and pulling up on the fuel rail that was still bolted down, a light amount of fuel emitted from that injector. I removed the fuel rail and found the bolts holding down the rail were not seated fully against the mount! Pulled the intake manifold off, and cyl. 1-3 had normal discoloration from fuel, cyl. 4 did not have any discoloration and was almost "dry looking." Not cool.

So, there's the news thus far. More information to come when I get the intake manifold injector ports opened up a little bit more to successfully fit the injectors.