While there has been alot talk about the OBX header - does anybody have the OBX Cat Back system? I was told MSRP is 399 and via the internet it can be ourchased for 299.

I have not see pics nor do I have any other info. Does anybody have it? of have info on it? I have emailed obx attemptong to get info, they refered me to a distributor but the website is down.. Any info I get will post here.

Bahamabart

 

I put up a crappy pic in my gallery - hard to appreciate.

OBX website does not even reference they make it!

The distributor gives me a vendor whose website is "temporarily down" - for over two days. An ebay seller that has every obx product but the MCS.

AND this is the best the disributor can do!

for 299.00 - I really want to know more but they are making it very difficult to give them my money!


bahamabart

 

bump

 

take a look at these pics of the obx cat back for 299.00

Look like UCC doesn't it?

see bahamabart gallery

 

Looks like the Supersprint to me. Considering their header is a blatant ripoff of the Supersprint header, it makes sense. I'd recommend buying something else that isn't a clone of other companies' work.

 

You are absolutely correct it is SUPERSPRINT.

 

Here are the pictures of the Semi Cat Back system from OBX. Enjoy. It is not only similar to the Super Sprint unit, it is also very similar to the Remus one. But, it is not similar to them in the price.

Bomboasy

 

Reason?

My rotas have never failed me during any auto-x they have been through. Yet they are just as light, but 1/5th of the cost of the brands they are moddled after.

 

I think Andy is talking from a Moral point of view, "OBX stealing super sprints design and research"


If super sprint and other big name brands didnt rip us off with those exuburent prices, there wouldnt be a market for these copy cat products.

 

Your commenst and Andy's should start an interesting thread.

Where is the line?

Andy says its a clone and looks down upon it, I can appreciate his sentiments. I will assume that Andy' comment touches on that obx did no research and development.

Your point is correct, if you price a product and leave a door open for competition - they always appear. At the same time SS may not care to mass sell but have a less volume higher prrce niche? who knows their strategy. OBX strategy is clear VOLUME. Perhaps SS and OBX got a hand shake that we don't know about?

Lets say we go with the argument, that we shouldn't or don't want to buy "clone" parts - which pulley do I buy? :impatient which CAI?

Beacuse every pulley out there was not designed from scratch! and look at the CAI simitalrities.

Bahamabart


PS - If we don't want clones, THEN SHOULDN"T WE ALL BE DRIVING FORDS. I'm going to hell for this

 

If generic drugs were available instantly as soon as name brand ones were available ... what would be the incentive for drug companies to ever do research to develop new ones?

I'm not saying the Supersprint is the best, or even that it's any good. It certainly looks overpriced for what you get. That doesn't mean it's right to steal someone's intellectual property to produce a blatant copy of their work, and flood the market with it. Some people are comfortable with that, some are not. Hopefully, whatever business you are in, each of you gets a chance to have your hard work and research copied EXACTLY by a Chinese/Taiwanese company and sold for pennies on the dollar compared to yours.

 

Andy - can very much appreciate your points and thats why I find this so interesting. You are correct in your generic drug statement. BUT you have ask yourself why is the system even designed to permit generic drugs after a period of time? Its designed to address GREED. Ther system permits the drug company a window to recoup investment and make a tidy profit but not live fat for the rest of its life.

In the case of drugs it is an exact copy but in the case of OBX / SS its not.
First the quality is not the same. And second while very close the cat back - is different. SS offers a full catback, OBX is not. SS offers a resonator as an option, OBX does not. Third regarding the header - how different can they be? Virtually all 4-2-1 pipes look alike and 4-1 as well . Clearly, someone looking at the two would see the difference. That person would either value the SS or he would not.

So I don't think its the best comparison (drugs) but I clearly understand your point of time and effort and some schmooo comes along adds no value and profits on the ideas of other. But the line is fuzzy is it not? Like I said earlier look at the pulleys or CAI for that matter.

How much differnce does there need to be so that one 1 is not a cloner?

 

It's pretty clear to anyone who has seen both, that OBX obtained a Supersprint header and cat-back. They built jigs around those parts and started welding up clones without a sliver of innovation or creativity and with blatant disregard for the intellectual property that Supersprint owns. Now, if Supersprint doesn't have a patent or a trademark on the design, it may be tough for them to seek retribution. Also, having OBX in the China/Taiwan where intellectual property enforcement is practically non-existent, makes it harder for Supersprint to do.

Bahamabart,

What line of work are you in?

 

.

 

Andy,

While I applaud your moral standards, many of which I hold when purchasing most of the things I buy, when it comes to (what I consider) a hugely overpriced item, mainly preying on the fact that the market is thin, and demand is high. I will choose to either not buy that product due to my lack of funds, or purchase a similar product that is made at 1/4 of the cost.

While I understand part of an 800 exhaust is R&D, if I can't afford that product, but want an exhaust what are my options?

1. Wait a couple of years until the market becomes like the Honda market, with supply high enough to force down the price.

2. Scrape by in my daily life to purchase an $800 exhaust.

3. Buy the knock-off 299 exhaust.

4. Build my own.

I'm personally going with 4 simply because I have the equipment, and ability to do so...but w/o that almost everyone who can't drop $800 on an exhaust freely will choose #3.

I've had this same argument with people and Rota. If I can't afford Mugen wheels, but I want a light wheel near the same style what are my options?

Now the question here isn't what we should be doing, but what the companies should be doing. Volk, and Work lost a minute amount of business due to Rotas formation. The people that bought the Rotas, would not have, or could not have afforded to buy a brand new set of wheels for $2500, and those that can afford it, aren't going to buy Rotas.

If a company is really worried about it, then they can do what BBS did. BBS gave licensing rights to ASA to make BBS knock-offs. So that they can get a piece of the knock-off, and make it a better knock-off to boot.

Supersprint has options as well. They already have a design that they like, and the have the option to make a cheaper version of their exhaust. Perhaps they could make a mild steel version, or use mild steel pipes, but stainless tips, and mufflers. They could spam advertising, and offer price breaks to groups, and become aggressive sellers.

If they adhere to the standards of upper scale manufacturer, then they have to realize that someone with a cheaper exhaust will come out sooner or later...no mater if its a knock-off of their product, or a new design thats put together cheaply.

I had no interest in spending $700 on a header, and would not have purchased a Supersprint header brand new. I would only have bought one used (possibly). Once the OBX header came out, shipped to my door for under $200 it was in my price range, and I bought it. So Supersprint didn't loose any business because of my OBX purchase...and I'd be willing to bet that 80% of the OBX buyers would tell you the same.

 

Andy,

Its clear that OBX used SS as a "guide" to be able to offer an "OBX System for MC". Being that it is such a copy, COOP makes a point it may be with their blessing. Your point too is valid this may be without SS approval and they may very well not be able to do anything about. There's a 3rd option, they may only be interested in the premium market. Lets face it, if this was a Ferrari or Lambo Club, we would not be talking about OBX as an option.

AHHnnn THE WALLET - COOPs points are honest and straight forward about economics being a key driving factor. Lets face it MODDING for 95% of us here at NAM is purely for pleasure. Only a few here MOD because its their carreer - racing for living. At the end of the day, most just want to have fun at a reasonable price and reasonable price will be different for each of us.

In my case not 1 MOD is justifiable (MODS are luxury items technically) , I could perfectly drive the MCs as it was built. I just get a kick of "improving" the vehicle for my driving pleasure. And my objective has always been MAX BANG (HP) for the BUCK. We all know that when it comes time to sell the car, we are not getting our money back on the mods (at best pennies on the dollar).

My question has been where is the line on copying/cloning perhaps there is no straight line to always see but a line that appears on a case by case review.

I'm getting too serious - So inconclusion, there is a 1000 hooker and a 200 hooker, well its clear who COOP and I took home. But here is the really good news COOP (assuming she has all of here teeth), we can do it 4 more times

Work - Offshore Banking













I will assume you agree that quality is not comparable.
some differences on the cat back but proabaly do to manufuring

 

I was going to ask you how you would feel if someone copied your work and performed it offshore but I guess that's moot though.

Anyway, I'm hopping off my high horse now. It's a fact of life that Far East copies of just about everything are flooding the market so cheaply that it makes no financial sense on an individual scale to resist. I'm a free-trader and all for supply and demand economics. It's when one party abuses that through trademark/patent/copyright violations where I draw the line.

P.S. In the grand scope of things, what comes around goes around. The Japanese auto manufacturers got a foothold on the world scene by borrowing liberally from the Americans and Europeans, yet offering goods at much lower prices. Now, the Korean manufacturers are doing the same thing TO the Japanese (notice how much the new Hyundai Sonata looks like a Camryccord? ).

 

More like a sabbcordi ..

 

Where one can buy an OBX Cat Back System?

 

I dont really think that SS is losing much business out of this scenario anyway, as the budget/bargain hunting population that are buying the OBX simply would not even consider the SS anyway because of its price. There is better cheaper options out there than the SS, without even considering the OBX.

 

I'm not an engineer or a designer, but it seems to me that there are a finite number of ways to make a reasonably effective Mini exhaust. How close to a previous design does an exhaust have to be, to be considerered a ripoff? How much different does it have to be and be different enough?

There are those that will pay for brand-name drugs, despite the cost and availability of cheaper generics. By law, generics need to be 85-105% as effective as the original. I'd guess the same would be true for car parts. Those that are able will still pay for the "real thing" while others will pay less for a product that may be similar, but may not have the same performance, durability, etc.

 

Andy - I'm in Banking ! there is little intellect to protect. Seriously, I think your views are spot on and if I had intellectual property, I 'd fight to protect it. As you stated there are parts of the world that don't respect intellectual property so while the fight might be right - it doesn't mean that right wins.

Its SS fight, not ours. SS needs to draw the line. If we draw the line (i.e. opt not to buy obx parts on behalf of SS) - OBX sales might be affected a bit but the reason why will not get attached and therefore the message is lost. We can't draw the line because we don't know all of the facts. If SS authorized this knock-off and we draw the line here then we are hurting SS and OBX.

I'll drop SS a line and see if I get a response and while I was considering another system - I will see about picking up the system and report back.

What is important here is this thread - NAM members have been aware that there is a 299 exhaust alternative and that it is a SS knock-off / look alike. The best thing is an educated buyer. The next step is that someone actually purchases an OBX exhaust system and report back on fit, finish, sound, ect....... If its total crap, SS has nothing to worry about.

Regarding the header - NAM members should know that the OBX Header (installed one this last friday) is a SS look alike and that the quality of the OBX header is reflected in the 200 price tag. You get what you pay for.

Xtreme - Putting the big picture discussion aside. I tend to agree with you that this is not SS target market and does not care one way or anther.
Bahamabart

PSSssstttt ACMINI - OBX header on Ebay BUT don't tell Andy I told you (lol).

 

Bahamabart, What are the quality issues with the header? There are some different storys floating around. "from brilliant to nasty" where do you rate it? and what are the faults?


I should have mine tomorrow, so hoping its not to bad.

John.

 

Xtreme, I posted comments under the OBX HEADER DYNO THREAD but here are my sentiments -

1) the header arrived complete with all of the necessary stuff. Some had comented that the gasket for the cat connection was missing.

2) looks great holding it in your hands. Nice welds & finish. Did I say it looks beUtiFULL - pulling it out the box will put a grin on your face.

3) When I ran my fingers inside the 4 pipes on the manifold side, they were not perfectly smooth (i.e manifold plate to the 4 pipes) but nothing was sticking up - it was the inverse - notch down.

4) we had difficulty with one bolt when connecting the header up to the manifold. The stock bolts have a hex head and then flare out bit. Our solution was to remove the flare on the bolt and in it went.

5) Others who installed it referenced that the bolts used to connect header to the Cat had come lose. People resolved this by double nutting. My mechanic resolved this by using copper nuts. DO ONE OF THESE.

Overall comments - its a 200 header and quality reflects that. Would I put it on my "race car" - NO but I think its a great header for the enthusiast that is budget consious.

On another note -

I shot off an email to SS inquiring about their relationship w/ OBX. Lets see what happens! If the yacuza appear at my door , I expect Andy to put me up!

I have been looking at exhaust systems (thats how this all started) and while there was another one that interested me, I've decided to take one for the team and purcahse the OBX catback and report back. First I have to find the dam thing MSRP 399 and the distributor said they could be purchased for 299 on ebay BUT No One is offering the system at any price on Ebay. So I will go back to the distributor.

Will report back guys.

bahamabart

PS - I'll tell you what really pisses me off about OBX - they copied the worse set of SS tips. SS makes 4 tip options.


















.

 

Since there were none offered on Ebay, I contacted Ebay stores that carry OBX. While the distributor refernced MSRP 399 and 299 on ebay, the ebay stores are saying 350.00

While potentially still a bargain - not what I was lead to believe. As the price gets closer to other systems, I find it harder to buy - knowing its a knock off.