The stock rev limit is 6950 rpm. It's possible to slightly overshoot it, but that's the level where the ECU tries to control it. Also, the tachometer is a bit inaccurate.

 

Oh ok, so i'm not going crazy. Yeah it doesn't go up passed 7000 too much, prolly just the tachometer being inaccurate.

 

Or you used to be able to. If you just got the rev limit and traction control modded, then you can play all you want with the piggyback. Best of both worlds, or combinations of both risks! You choose.....

Matt

 

As far as fueling goes, it doesn't really matter which MTH options you get, if you are planning to add a piggyback. The piggyback alters the signal from the MAP sensor to the ECU. Let's say the MTH calls for 16 ms of injector pulse width at 5,000 rpm and at 1900 mbar then it calls for 15 ms at 5,000 rpm and at 1800 mbar. The piggyback will alter that signal (if desired) so that the ECU only sees 1800 mbar even though in reality you have 1900 mbar. The end result is a leaner mixture than the ECU had called for.

So, if you want a higher redline (a good thing in most cases, given the gearing of the MCS), you'll need a flash. What happens from there can be altered with a piggyback.

Again, IMHO, the best way to do it is strictly through the flash, without the piggyback at all. If you can log A/F, ignition timing (with knock activity), and injector pulse widths, you should be able to provide that info to your chiptuner so they can provide a custom flash based on your requirements.

Piggybacks are, and always will be, a band-aid.

 

I understand why you feel this way but the problem is getting a custom on dyno tune just is not going to happen with MTH or GIAC....at least so far. If that were possible that would be very nice. GIAC,....while many are happy declined to offer me a "custom tune." Truthfully I have not spoken directly to MTH but that is what I have , maybe erroneously, deducted.

 

Huh? I thought the whole point of MTH was so that it was set for EXACTLY your modifications. If it aint custom for your setup but rather, is generic, whats the point?

 

MTH is set up by Franz' best guess on what the maps should look like given your mods. He's a good guesser, and it may be based on some dyno pulls of other cars, but it ain't custom like how SpiderX means, which is multiple dyno runs of YOUR car. But there is one tedious way: you can download many maps and try them all through trial-and-error on the dyno, and tell him where you'd like the maps changed (eg this map worked better at this rpm...). Of course it's also great for custom options like the traction control adjustments.

The biggest drawback I see with piggyback in the Mini is the factory is always tweaking the software; on average one new revision per month so far. What happens when the dealer flashes new maps and the Unichip fools the sensors the same way? You'll have to get it retuned each time because you (may) have a different base map.

Not everyone needs a higher rev limit, or has such big mods that they go off the factory maps, and probably few will plug/unplug the connector enough to wear it out. Piggyback works fine on many mildly modded cars.. where the factory isn't always screwing with the software.

 

Evotech tailored the map to my mods and raised the redline to 7,000. See the attached dyno results for before and after Evotech mods.

 

Your exactly right......when you start putting on a lot of mods the "tuning" is pretty critical. The standard mods have well known characteristics that are already "cataloged" by the "tuners". When you start adding a lot of mods to get the most out of them requires an "on dyno" tune. I am currently running a map that was done for a car very similar to mine. he car is running very well and strong. After next week with a new exhaust and intake manifold I will be looking at another "custom" tune.

The "tedious" method is too inefficient for me/time consuming.... I need more instant gratification.

 

That puts things into a different light. So I learned something new here too. Thank You. I can see ... whats the point of getting a generic map when you got all different bits and pieces from different vendors and keep changing stuff. It would seem that the chip software people should be able to create a custom map for you based on exactly what you got. I don't know how but I would bet people like you might be willing to pay a little extra to have it matched exactly to your car (or maybe not, I dunno). I didn't know that, for example, MTH wasn't exactly for your car so I see, whats the point?

If they come up with an exact map I think that would be a winner???

 

There is no way to get an exact map without working from data logs from your exact car. Let's say you add a 15% pully to your car. The tuner creates a map, but has no knowledge of the casting flash in your head, for example. This is called tolerance stacking. No one knows the tolerace stacking for your particular car, and can only be determined by measurement of your exact car. That's why I, among many, want something where we can data log, learn and tweak interactively. This gives the ability to tune perfectly for your particular car, and to re-tune in the face of changes.

The point of things like MTH, is that while it may not be a perfect map for your car, it can take advantage of larger injectors, for example, without running your car real rich (like would happen if the car didn't know it had larger injectors). The adaptive nature of the ECU will take into account some of these changes, and the point is that MTH will get you "close enough". Remember there is a lot of range between the stock maps and perfect. Anything you get without custom tune will have these same issues.

For MTH, the Tuner package allows for tunes over a 12 month. I've been talking about moving to that, and they are willing to take my WOT A/F data to improve the tune. So there is some iternation available, but not as tight as seing a knock value at part throttle, changing the timing map in the garage, and driving right after that to see the benefit.

I'd say, it's helpfull to not think about this in such a binary way, there are many shades of gray here...

Matt

 

I'm surprised in all the ECU tuning posts, that few NAM subscribers mention or support the Shark Injector option. I don't have any aftermarket ECU tuning done yet, mind you, but as I've been researching the options, it sure seems extremely easy to use, and very affordable! It replaces the stock programming with an upgraded program with the touch of one button on the unit, and allows you to switch back to stock program with no problem for visits to the MINI dealership. It is this ease-of-use that has made this option jump to the top of my shopping list.

I don't know about all the other motorists like me out there, but I don't have any cool/trustworthy shops anywhere near me that can program MY car on their dyno with some custom GIAC software or something similar. I just can't deal with the hassle factor of having to drive hundreds of miles to Helix in Philly for a GIAC (Helix being the closest shop I'd trust). Let alone, everytime my dealer in Buffalo upgrades my MINI's software, that means I have to go BACK to Helix in Philly for a GIAC re-flash. Ughhhh. Talk about I N C O N V E N I E N T ! ! !

So, could someone "in the know" explain why I shouldn't consider the Shark Injector for my MCS? Thanks!

 

I had the Shark Injector for a couple of years and it was good for me. Easy to go back to stock, easy to send off to get upgraded when I received new stock flashes that were not compatible, inexpensive (no charge for updates). Drivability greatly improved with the shark regardless whether it was a performance enhancer or not. If Conforti wasn’t so cantankerous and would do some more tweaking to get a tune to match my larger injectors etc., I would have kept it. I know you asked for someone to tell you why you shouldn’t get it but, I couldn’t help it.

 

What we need is something like HP tuners has to offer for the GM crowd! I bet that if MTH were to offer there software to the community at a higher cost, but giving us the ability to tune it ourselves, they would make more money. HP Tuners was the same way and they realized that they could make more money and get more customers if they were to offer there software for a little more but give them the freedom to tune whatever they wanted.

Garrett

 

The main reason MTH doesnt want to go down that route (at least from what I've learned), is that MTH doesnt want someone to tune their car the wrong way, have it throw a rod (or something equally extreme), and then have that person blame MTH for their mistake.

 

And there is a simple solution to that. All buyers of the software are responsible for their own actions and the company will not be held responsible for what they do with the software when they have it in there hands. MTH is also taking the chances of supplying everyone with a tuned file and problems can and will happy. Just to let you know something my friend has a V6 camaro stock that runs 13s. Now some of has to do with weight, and the driver, but by him tuning the car with HP Tuners allowed him to gain more power and better performance out of his car.

Garrett

 

Thats what disclaimers are for.:impatient

 

Tradiuz ...

I guess I could search through all the MTH posts but it looks like the standard file is claiming 22 HP gain for just the SW?

If MTH has answered this before, I apologize, ...

Have you done this in the same car, one with, one without and found a 22 HP difference?

THANKS

 

There is a possible middle ground. In the VW 1.8T world, there are tuners who offer limited user tuneability (in alphabetical order):

APR: Has a program called V-Tune that allows user tweaking (within limits) of certain parameters like fueling, boost, and timing with their APR chip.

GIAC: Has a program called Mobile Tuner that allows user tweaking (within limits) of certain parameters like fueling, boost, and timing with their GIAC chip.

Revo: Has a device called an SPS3 that allows user tweaking (within limits) of certain parameters like fueling, boost, and timing with their Revo chip. Revo also released a completely free an unsupported program called Lemmiwinks that alters certain adaptation channels to allow user tweaking (WITHOUT limits) of certain adaptation channels that control parameters like fueling, boost, and timing with any chip, or stock.

More info: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=27

 

I was planning on doing some dyno time this month, but due to a recent accident, I wont be able to. Those are dyno numbers converted from PS (Metric HP, 1 ps = 0.9863201652997627 hp ) on a DIN9000 corrected dyno in Germany.


For more information on hp see this article.

 

One issue on the Shark Injector is that it is not available for `05 cars at this time.