Drivetrain Turbo surging?
#1
Turbo surging?
Check this thread for relevant info:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=53637
In turbo compressor map plots they show a surge line. What exactly is turbo surge? Can it be "felt" while driving? If so, what does it feel like?
Disclaimer: For the record. I am not experiencing turbo surging. I'm asking the questions to get better educated. :-)
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=53637
In turbo compressor map plots they show a surge line. What exactly is turbo surge? Can it be "felt" while driving? If so, what does it feel like?
Disclaimer: For the record. I am not experiencing turbo surging. I'm asking the questions to get better educated. :-)
#2
This page gives a pretty concise description of compressor surge:
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/june04/nerds/
Cliff notes: Surge is when the air in the outlet tries to come back through the turbo because the outlet pressure is too high.
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/june04/nerds/
Cliff notes: Surge is when the air in the outlet tries to come back through the turbo because the outlet pressure is too high.
#3
Thank you Andy! That 5th paragraph is pretty descriptive
So if I'm understanding the surging correctly the only way to resolve the issues is to lower the boost pressure, or increase the lbs/min of engine system (intake, engine, exhaust), or to change the turbo (to move the map into a better tollerance). Right?
For the record. I am not experiencing turbo surging. I'm asking the questions to get better educated. :-)
The compressor map also has an important landmark, the surge line. The area of compressor surge is a line bordering the islands on the far left side of the map. Surge is when the air pressure after the compressor is higher than the compressor can generate. This causes the airflow in the compressor wheel to back up and stall. This, in turn, causes the pressure to drop, allowing flow to resume until it stalls again. In severe surge this can become a violent oscillation that destroys the thrust bearing of the turbo and can even cause mechanical failure of the wheel. Surge can feel like anything from a slight fall off in power to a violent jerking when driving. Surge also makes a thrumming or chirping noise that can be distinctly heard over the engine. You'll often hear compressor surge during shifts, if the compressor bypass valve (or blow-off valve) is too small. Obviously surging any time other than during a shift is not good stuff, so any compressor match should avoid crossing over or dwelling in the surge area of the map especially after the wastegate opens.
For the record. I am not experiencing turbo surging. I'm asking the questions to get better educated. :-)
#4
Yep. Of course, since the surge line is so steep, moving to the right on the x-axis (flow) helps get you out of the trouble area faster than moving down on the x-axis (boost). The practical solution is to replace the turbocharger with one that has a smaller compressor side (since increasing airflow is expensive and reducing boost is no fun).
#5
Originally Posted by andy@ross-tech.com
Yep. Of course, since the surge line is so steep, moving to the right on the x-axis (flow) helps get you out of the trouble area faster than moving down on the x-axis (boost). The practical solution is to replace the turbocharger with one that has a smaller compressor side (since increasing airflow is expensive and reducing boost is no fun).
What types of things will increase the lbs/min? Are they what I'd expect such as freer flowing exhaust, freer flowing intake, better flowing head, larger valves, better cam to increase duration/lift of the valves?
#6
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