Hey all...tis is my first officail thread on the site and just want to say the resources here are great!

I am planning to Twin Charge over the winter but am having trouble narrowing my choices. I took the time to run a few searches on the site and found some interesting info but not a lot directly from those who sell, install or currently run a Twin Charge kit so I am aiming my thread towards those people specifically.

I know of the following kits:
Helix kit
SPI kit
Alta kit

I have also heard rumors M7 is developing a kit as is Mini Madness which I believe gets rid of the supercharger.

I can make a small list of what I believe to be pro's and con's of these kits but as I said I would rather here it from users / manufacturers.

Thanks for your time

Seann

 

Helix, even Webb Motorsports is now carrying his kit. Email or give Eric a call. If you live near by I'm sure he would let you ride in it.

Mark

 

Are you saying this as someone who has used or installed the kit or just a fan of their products in general.

I am in Toronto and that is my main issue with the Helix kit. Apparently it is only available for purchase if installed at Webb or Helix. Why is that? There must be a lot of chopping invloved or something (no disrespect intended).For me to have the vehicle shipped there and back would be quite a few dollars on top of install.

 

My guess would be quality control as a main point. I would think these guys are installing kits to oversee proper install and tuning.

 

As you'll quickly learn, rumors of grand new creations abound around this place and should be ignored. Most never make it to market - and many that do are months or even years away. For reference, look for posts on the yet-to-be-released twin-screw supercharger kit, and the turbo only kit...

My point is, if you're really looking to buy now, don't waste time waiting around for what might come. If you're not in a big hurry, I'd personally want to wait to see how the tuning device Alta is working on comes out. If it's really fully tuneable I'd definitely want to go that route over something like the SAFC hack others are using.

 

I can understand that point but at the same time it's not very practical for someone living as far as I do. Also as I said what if something goes wrong? Another trailer ride all the way there and at my expense a second time.

Another great point which has me leaning towards the Alta kit. I agree 100% that standalone versus piggy back is the way to go in a complete custom job such as this and neither SPI or Helix went that route. The only thing with the Alta kit is the turbo seems a little large for the application (GT3071 I believe with a 4 inch inlet). I also thought I saw a new pulley there, too. Are they increasing supercharger boost as well? I think their exhaust manifold is pretty cheesy. Kind of looks like a hack job but if it functions then great.

 

drive your car to philly.
see the town while eric @ helix makes sure the kit is installed properly.
collect many tickets on drive back to toronto!!

 

I'll say that if you're thinking about these different kits, you should go ahead and call each and ask them what theirs offers. Despite the fact that supposedly there are a number of them on the road, precious few come out and say anything about their experiences. In other words, don't count on them to fill you in.

Personally, I'd rather do a straight swap of the SC, and I know on good word that a killer one is coming...I really believe that you should, for your own piece of mind, call the vendors with currently available and rumored kits, ask them why they went with what they offer, come back, and ask any questions that you might have. We'll help you out. Be sure to ask about pricing, performance goals, _reliability_ etc, so that you will be able to decide with confidence! Good luck with it!

 

There are also 1.7,1.8L stroker kits coming from a variety of sources... I'm personally thinking that a supercharged 1.8L would be more interesting than a Turbo/Superchargered 1.6L... but who knows.

RM2k5

 

I have done that over the last few weeks. Obviously they tell me their pro's of why I should go with them but never what to watch out for as far as troubleshooting. Majority of the vendors seem to frown on the SPI kit where as most people I have read that are twin charged ae running that unit.

Like I said I am mainly looking for honest opinions from guys that are running these things. People such as KarvinBass and Icubed keep posting saying "Go to Helix" but do they actually have any knowledge of or experience with the kit? If you guys are just trying to give a thumbs up to Helix which I can respect please remember that it really does me no good.

 

To be blatantly honest, with most of these, you're just gonna find groupies on here. There are so precious few out there who come on here. I only know of a few, who have had issues. I went safe and just did the ported and polished route [M7/Cosworth], because I never got the reassurance I need. I don't have the financial means now to tear my car apart and fix the bottom end if something happens. But, I still wish for higher levels of performance. I just haven't had the desire to start pushing my luck...

 

Do you _know_ that these are coming to market? I've heard "rumors" for the past half year. I have also heard from people who've torn it down and looked that there's just too little clearance for stroking. So, yeah, I won't actually believe that any will make market until I see it...

 

Seann,

Check out this thread: here

There's info from people who've had them installed, those who installed them, those who've watched ones get installed. Good reading there.

 

This is very interesting?

 

Where did you hear these rumors. Stroker motors with increased displacement would be more to my liking than just increasing boost. There's no replacement for displacement.....

 

you will not get a good hp/$ from any "stroker kit" adding only 10 or 15% displacement. install labor would be huge. increasing stroke is no small task: replacement crank with bearings, pistons, rings and rods, plus an entire engine rebuild gasket set (that alone is several hundred $). I'd like to see the several kits mentioned.

 

Does anyone know about how many twin-charged Minis there are in the US?

 

ok not to take from all the hard work done by people who have developed the twin charger kits but what is stopping someone from building their own,

the reason I say this is because for me trying to purchase anything from the states is a bit of a risk as when it arrives here I could be totally stung for import taxes, also the shipping costs on a kit are pretty high and I will have to do the install myself as there aint no twincharger Minis here,

so any advice or help would be great also does anybody know the different turbos used in the kits,
or if a turbo thats in the kits is used on a production vehicle???

I had also asked this question before do vendors sell the parts as seperates? like I could buy the header from them and source the turbo elsewhere, it would reduce the shipping and import costs for me, and I could build up the system over time when I have some spare cash,

one more question where do these kits get the oil supply from (probably oil pressure switch port) and where do they return the oil to?
and what do they need a water supply for does the turbo have a water jacket???(ALTA)

 

Thats exactly what I have been thinking about since I started this thread. I was talking to the fella's that have always done the work on my cars yesterday about sourcing me a kit. When I showed them picks and prices of the 3 kits (Alta, SPI and Helix) they almost choke slammed me!

My 2 cents on what I've read thus far:

Alta Kit:
$4000 - turbo seems a little big for the application, turbo manifold is horrible. For the money NO fuel system, NO intercooler, NO tuning. This is the only kit that uses standalone but is an extra ~$1000USD

Helix Kit:
$4800 - ALL THAT SILICONE IS UGLY!!! For the money I spend I really would like to see something nice under the hood and that looks horribly cheap! I know guys form over function. They used that stuff to keep temperature down but for $4800USD they could have made it pretty. No need for an electronic boost controller IMO. Could use a $100 manual for the same job. Also having to take it there for install tells me there is a lot of cut and paste invloved with this kit.

SPI kit:
$5850 - A lot of money for a turbo kit. I have talked to people that say this kit is LOUD! Also have heard that this kit throws a lot of engine codes. Oddly enough I have spoken with guys from all the different US Mini Parts vendors (don't want to use names) and have asked them straight up "why should I buy yours in comparison to...". None of them had many good things to say about the SPI kit. Also uses the APEXi SAFC for tuning (they call it something else haha). Which is good in some applications but in my experience very limited here.

What about this Promini car? I read it has turbo, front mount intercooler and a pretty nice header setup. Whats the word on these guys?

 

What is loud about the kit is the Super Sequential Blow Off Valve. This BOV is specifically designed for the import market where people like to show off what they have. This is one of the things I could live without. Matter of fact, it has some specially designed fins on it just to cause it to whistle. If you do some pricing on BOV, this one is about $100 more than other BOVs.

The exhaust noise appears to be no different from adding a aftermarket header to your car. When the turbo's boostin', the exhaust actually sounds quieter. Since the system doesn't come with a muffler system, can't blame the noise on it.

Sure, this is common marketing tactics to use. Why, if you're selling a competing product, say all good things about a competitor's product? You'll find anything you can to say bad about a vendor to gain a sale. Is this a good/ethical business practice?...I'll leave that up to you to determine.

 

Saifa, this post is silly to me....first of your comment about the APEXi "the call is something else" You know what I call it...20-30 WHP on a stock mini...that's what I have replicated on a mustang dyno. And when adding other softwares that claim this and that...the most I have seen was 2 WHP...people who blame the tool are tools...there were some "tuners" trying to use the APEXi said it would work on the dyno but then would loose the info...they went round and round...tolds me how it sucked...so the tor it off and spent 600 or so on another ecu flash...turned out the wired the APEXi wrong....hmmmn yeah....but it was the APEXi...but you are going to listen to these people...

"other vendors" talking crap...gee there's a big suprise! heh heh come on man

it's not alot of $ for a turbo kit...it is the most complete kit on the market...it's the original...the rest are copies...So they are trying to undercut what he has done and make it cheaper...hmmmn...well you get what yo upay for....when Hubie first posted on NAM in 02 about what he had done peopl laughed at him and said it wasn't possible....from day ONE noone belived him and have talked crap or in my opinion have been jelous they didn't think of it first and don't have the resources/knowledge to do it like him...

This is all I am going to post about this, to tell you the truth...now that I have installed 5 of them....threads like this have made me personally realize...to tell you get the kit you want...cause frankly noone understands the kits...well enough to know the difference anyway...All these roumors of LOUD and Breaking...LOL...yeah...well non of the ones I have installed have broken, maybe that's cause I wasn't being paid, so it was personal pride vs a job

the only reason they were loud like dom said is prolly due to the BOV which is loud (you don't have to get that one) and everyone know that turbos quite exhaust for the most part....but yeah some of the early kits were wide open 3" exhausts...much like mine...hmmn...yeah...it's loud at times.

Anyway, you can PM if you ahve further questions. Once Hubie returns from a business trip he's on I'll be contacting him to do a photo shoot of a kit...so people will stop asking "why is that one so much more" lol I told him he doesn't have a choice. this way if people can't see it then...then I know not to bother heh heh...(me shrugs)

Good luck with your kit...whatever it is I am sure it's still fun...

 

Saifa,Helix TC 's appearance has been improved i think you saw pics of the prototype thats on Eric's at helix.I made a appointment with them for a TC install plus other other mods,early this spring.Eric at Helix is the only one i would trust to do such a major Mod.There is alot to this install,and some of my present mods have to be removed befor installing this TC

 

OK Settle down a little Tuls, I think you read into this a little to deeply. First of all I know your biased against the other kits because you have worked with the SPI kit 5 times. Have you once worked with any of the other kits? If not then you really have no basis for comparison.

The reason I say this is because the guys at Detroit Mini and Hubie himself when I spoke to him last sumer called it the "SPI FC" or something like that. I asked what the hell it was and after a few minutes realized they were talking about the the S-AFC which incidentally I have used before and while it is IMO the best Piggyback system on the market a standalone would along the tuner to do more with the Mini

If it is the most complete kit on the market why are there no resources for it? I have only seen this kit in writing on Detroit Tuned's site. It is a very small blurb at best and while Chad from DT seems really cool and more than willing to help out there is not a whole lot of Product documentation there. Also where the(^&%#% is Hubie site? There's a link to authorized dealers but nothing from Hubie himself as far as pics, dyno, parts list even a paragraph...NOTHING. How am I supposed to research the product when not even the vendor himself has it on his site..??? Also as far as new kits being copies well thats kind of stupid considering all of them have changed something in their kit...jealousy sure maybe but copies are a part of evolution IMO.

I don't mean BOV loud...I love those things. I had a TX RFL on my Talon before I sold it and it was the loudest one on the market at times. I mean loud as in the cockpit. I have read posts and PMs from guys running it saying Hubies kit with the big catless downpipe and a 3" exhaust is friggan loud inside the car at mid to high RPM's.

 

having a twincharge kit is not loud. i rode in a frends car and my car is still louder than his and mine isnt even twincharched.

as for the AFC select i gained 27whp, properly tuned by tuls. my base run was 158whp, (17% pulley, GIAC, CAI, exhaust) after tuned with AFC 185whp. huge *** difference.

also, all cars are different, you cant add a chip and expect to gain a lot of hp out of it. you need to tune it on the dyno.

 

[quote=saifa]Are you saying this as someone who has used or installed the kit or just a fan of their products in general.

Sorry i am replying late, but I am saying that statement as a fan. But I have been to Helix many times, have seen and heard the car and it is incredible. Eric has had zero problems with the kit and knowing how they run things I will definately be getting one in the future. It is expensive but def worth there kit IMO. As far as the drive, I understand it is long and kind of a pain but trust me its worth it. You should call Eric yourself and ask him all the questions you have. Even if you aren't going to buy his kit, he would still love to answer any questions you might have.

Mark