don't know!

I've been reading more on the 180 degree thermostat. I'll probably give it a try.

I think that coating a header will keep underhood temps down, but who knows what that will do to engine temps....

Others have played with coating on the intake, but because I'm not others, I can't speak to it.

Matt

 

Header wrap or ceramic coated headers will definitely help reduce under hood temps.
This will have a minimal effect on engine temp and will possibly help with IC heat as well.

Just my experience from other vehicles not my MINI.

 

A 180 degree thermostat probably keeps the octane requirement down (in the 94-95 range), but it definitely won't get the octane requirement down to 91.

 

Thanks!!

 

My condolences to all of you out there in the people's republic of CA. I am so glad I moved away. Out here on the east coast 93 octane is the norm and Sunoco is pumping 94 octane.

My first encounter with CA (in 1995) was the $600 bill they handed me when I tried to register my non-CA spec pickup. Years later the Federal Supreme Court ruled that unconstitutional and forced them to return my money. Where's my interest???!!

Is the 91 octane a result of one of CA's peculiar pollution requirements or are the oil companies sticking it to you because of their isolation from Texas competition?

 

madmick has the right idea; do a base line, then pop the head, use two gaskets and see what you get. I'm surprised the t/cboys aren't doing this. while you're in there, you might find carbon build-up that can glow plug your charge.

 

I would tend to think the 91 octane is due to an absence of competition more than anything. If it were due to an emission restriction, you wouldn't be able to get the 100 octane racing unleaded.

 

i withdraw my earlier comment to dr. o about the juice giving a relatively stronger pull at low to mid rpms. i did that juiced/cold turkey comparison almost 3 years ago before i had all my current mods (10 disk supertrapp, carnation hai, uni filter, denso ik20s, newer ecu software.)

[flame suit on smiley] my latest butt dyno comparison gives a stronger pull with the juice through the whole rpm range; the top end unjuiced just feels wussy. [flame suit off smiley]

jose

 

Unless it's officially being sold for "off road use only".

I don't think any pollution restriction would be based on octane, but rather the level of aromatics (BTX: benzene, toluene, xylene) that are needed to economically produce higher octane levels.

 

than the rest of the country....

Matt

 

Possibly. But the 100 octane is being sold from a pump where the rest of the gas is sold. Also, the "off road use" sale would likely have some documentation requirements (where you sign a document that explicitly states that you are buying the fuel for off road use only). That is not the case with the 100 octane stuff.

But the emission restriction would apply to the fuel regardless of whether it was the octane level or aromatics. In any event, to be permitted to be sold from the pump, with no restrictions for off road use only, the fuel must be certified to not cause problems for the emission control system.

 

How is the ingredient mix in CA gas different from reformulated gas that is sold in other parts of the U.S. that have mandated reformulated gas for emission compliance purposes? (Other than the ingredients that increase the octane level.) A customer of former company that I was affiliated with was a gasoline refiner. I asked one of the managers of the refiner about the difference between California gas and what was sold elsewhere. The response was that reformulated gas is the same from refiner to refiner (once it goes into the pipeline system you can not distinguish what refiner A produced from what refiner B produced); the difference is in the additive package that the distributor adds to make it Chevron vs. Shell. Presumably more octane boosters are added to get to 93/94 premium than is felt is necessary in California - hence the 91 octane crap that we have to put up with.

 

But CA is one of the (maybe the only?) state to have a federal EPA exemption from that laws that cover the other states. (not so they can be ignored, but so CA can create more stringent rules, and mandate solutions that were out of step with federal EPA policy.) This was granted at CARB started doing things to fight the smog on SoCal and the rest of the state, and is the same thing that caused the creation of "49 State Cars", as CA could mandate different emmissions hardware on cars as well.

Matt

 

(whatever that was!)

REFORMULATED FUELS

The need for cleaner air in California and the requirements of the federal Clean Air Act Amendments require the California Air Resources Board (CARB) to develop cost effective methods of achieving air quality standards. Phase 2 of CARB's reformulated gasoline program requires production of RFG at the refineries by March 1, 1996, availability for sale at the wholesale level by April 15, 1996, and at the retail level by June 1, 1996. Although the transition to CARB Phase 2 RFG will create a gasoline formulation unique to California and pose certain challenges in the way the petroleum industry conducts day-to-day business, implementation of this program is an important step forward in the state's goal of achieving air quality standards.

To meet the fuel specifications for Phase 2 RFG, California refiners have spent more than four billion dollars for refinery upgrades and retrofits. Based on current information available from oil companies, California refineries have the ability to meet the demand for Phase 2 RFG in 1996, even under a high demand scenario. The refining and distribution of Phase 2 RFG pose challenges to the industry in meeting fuel specifications and providing segregated storage for additional product types.
CARB formed an RFG Advisory Committee to facilitate the introduction of CARB Phase 2 RFG in California by providing a forum for discussing issues and concerns with all parties affected by the production, distribution, and use of RFG. The Energy Commission is working closely with CARB to help pave the way for a smooth transition to CARB RFG. It is the shared goal of both agencies to evaluate the petroleum industry's ability to provide Phase 2 RFG to meet the needs of California's motorists.

• The Energy Commission will continue to participate in the RFG Advisory Committee with CARB and report on the petroleum industry's ability to provide Phase 2 RFG to meet the needs of California motorists.
• The Energy Commission is providing the expertise for timely and accurate assessment to decision makers of potential impacts to the supply and distribution of Phase 2 RFG during the transition period.
• The Energy Commission will monitor fuel deliveries to pipeline terminals and provide credible and accurate information on the potential for regional spot shortages. Matt

 

It would seem that California will continue to lead the way - particluate emission standards seem to be the latest example. But as regards octane levels, we get screwed while most everyone else gets the better stuff. What makes it a particularly bitter pill to swallow is that we are paying top price (or close to it) for an inferior product (as regards octane rating).

 

But don't install them with stock gaps! They came in at 0.025"!!!!!

I've set them all for 0.045" and we'll see how they do!

Matt

 

Looking forward to hearing your findings Matt. Gaping the DENSO's is not exactly easy, if I recall correctly (they're delicate). Thanks for doing this...

 

I've heard and read a few places that the 24s help out with ping on crappy gas, so I guess I'm just re-inventing the wheel! But if they do work, they should be good for about 5 hp! That's what I think timing retard lost me at redline......

Matt

ps, I also got one of M7s 180 degree thermostats to play with. Of course, the day I got it, there was snow in my driveway!

 

don't know if it's real, but they feel better. When I get my diagnostics back, I'll look for timing retard.

Matt

 

Good luck. I'm sure there are some collective breaths being held in California

 

What are some of the negatives of going too cold (plugs)? I suppose one could always switch them out seasonally, or when different fuel is used...

 

but if you gas it a lot, that shouldn't be a problem! I also picked up some coolant to do the thermostat change, and while things are encouraging, we'll only know this summer.

Matt

 

You have the Pilo coil too right?

That will also help retard fouling.
Will you be doing the 2 changes( plugs then 180º) in increments so you will see the effectiveness of each separately?

I'd also be curious about the long term effects of that 180º thermostat. Been a lot of discussion and not much feedback and data. I of course could have missed a thread on this.

Yes, I have 93 octane but I'd still like to know. Info= goooood

 

On one hand, this may only effect the final stages of warm-up, on the other, it may make the motor a few degrees cooler. The M7 guys posted some results from runs they did where the coolant temp was lower, and a bunch of underhood temps as well, from the air through the radiator being cooler...

The MTH guys have found that running the fans can get a bit more power, presumably by keeping comustion chamber temps down, or maybe the cooler underhood temps reduce the heating of the intake charge.

I think there's a lot of hypothisis in this area, and little real data..... Don't know if I'll be able to help there...

Matt

 

No problem.

Just sucking up info wherever I can get it